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View Full Version : SC or Turbo ('s) kinda long.....


DriftGirl
06-30-2003, 02:56 PM
Most of the stuff Ive done involes balance before rapid weight loss. I think Ive got the car well balanced now and as far as light as I can go without jacking the local Wells Fargo Bank :p

My current setup works well and I have a lot of controll over the car....

Heres tha plan:

I had planned on doing a TT setup and even went out a bought 2 new T3's (Small T's due to lack of space)

I put the idea on hold (ended up Ebaying the T3's) but now the car is ready to be boosted again.

For those that are active drifting their cars or have some insight on various boosting setups for drifting...which would you pick?

Options:
- Super Charger
- Single larger turbo
- Twin turbo with 2 T3's

I'm leaning towards the SuperCharger now...Instant power and I assume easier getting Sidewayz from standstill...leads to more control (assuming) :p



Or the Single setup ...Much more HP :)

Twinns would double my cost so they're last on the list. but would be nice on the 1uZfe :cool:

Im seriously on the fence with this and it has to be done over the next few months.

Sooooo, Your thoughts on SC vs Turbo for drift0rs???????????

MrMigs
06-30-2003, 05:44 PM
I say SC.. I don't know if it's better or worse. -- it probably just depends on how you tune whatever it is you've got.

All I know is that for drift.... or any road racing for that matter... boost lag is bad.

Mr. Sparkle
06-30-2003, 06:38 PM
The best possible route would be to go with the 1JZ-GTE or 2JZ-GTE. If you get it done at Signal, look to about 7k for 1JZ install and upwards of 10k for the 2JZ. For a car as heavy as the Toyota Soarer, you'll need at least 500rwhp to maintain any long drifts.

A car equiped with the 1UZ is going to be one heavy boat-- around 3800+lbs. With all of that weight, you're going to be eating up tires very quickly...which brings up another point...how many tires are spinning? I'm not sure what kind of rear-ends came on the US SC300/400. To do any kind of drifting you'll need a mechanical LSD.

What kind of suspension setup are you running? Luckily JZA80 suspension parts are all interchangeable with the JZZ30 chassis.

The Soarer is an awesome car...Ive wanted one ever since I started getting into cars in the mid-90's... was very close to buying one before I got my FD in '00. Its a heavy car, but has a lot of potential...but to extract that potential, it's going to cost $$$ unfortunately. Even with Clint Pohler's infamous SC's in '99/'00 and the slow popularity of the chassis from drift...parts are still rare to come buy, especially for the 1UZ-FE V8 engine.

to answer the original question, I think a medium sized (mix match the shafts, housings for your application) ball bearing turbo (single) would be the best bet. Twin turbo setup would be too complicated and weigh more. Superchargers are simply too heavy and bulky, and dont offer as much bang for the buck that a turbo could.

MrMigs
06-30-2003, 11:44 PM
Yeah, don't take it from me. I honestly don't know much about forced induction, except for the way the pipes go :D

I don't study things I can't afford hehe

CrazyHawaiian
07-01-2003, 11:22 PM
Well here's my take on it...

There's really 2 questions here. The first question is "What is needed to drift?" The second question is "What is the best type of forced induction for the 1UZFE?"

What is needed to drift? - None of the above. You dont need forced induction to drift. You also dont need a LSD to drift. Having these things might make it easier or more fun to drift but it is not needed. If you feel your current setup is underpowered, it might have more to do with what type/size tires you are running in the rear. You are pushing over 300 hp after all, more than enough to break the rear loose. When going for a drift setup, alot of people make the mistake of running too big or too grippy of a tire in the rear causing the feeling of being underpowered. At that point you have two choices, either choose a rear tire setup that compliments your current power levels (aka smaller width tires or harder compound tires), or keep the current tire setup and make more power (aka forced induction). The second choice sounds like more fun but I can tell you from experience that the first choice is better at the learning stages. Just remember that you dont need alot of power to learn how to drift (as proven by the AE86, stock KA 240's, and even my stock 89 Camaro RS). What you need is a car thats setup for drifting and tires are one of the most important things to consider. As you move up from a beginner to the intermediate or even advanced stages of drifting, then power can become more important as you look for new ways to extend the lengths of your drifts. When comparing N/A drifting to F/I drifting the main difference will be the portion of the powerband you need to control (talking throttle control). Big displacement N/A motor usually makes power at the low end so most of your throttle control will take place at 1/4 throttle to 1/2 throttle. Smaller displacement F/I motors usually make power at the high end so your throttle control will take place between 1/2 throttle and full throttle. Both can be used to drift.

What is the best type of forced induction for the 1UZFE? This is actually a hard question because it depends on what you consider 'best'. Would 'best' be the most cost effective? Would 'best' be the most effecient setup? Or maybe its the best power output? You can see what I mean. Here are some things to think about. Turbo's are more effecient that Superchargers. Turbo's make power out of exhaust gases while Superchargers make power out of power. This means that superchargers can only work at a maximum 70% efficiency while turbo's can run at above 100% efficiency. So generally turbo's would give you more potential than superchargers but actual output would depend on what size turbo or supercharger you use. Also, single turbo versus twin turbo. The only time a twin setup will have an advantage is if they are set up sequentially. The advantage here would be that you have less lag and a bit of a flatter torque curve. However most twin setups (including aftermarket) run in parallel and this configuration gives you no advantages over a single turbo setup. Of course this also depends on what size turbo's you're using (twin small, single big, twin big!). The theory of sequential twin turbo's is built around daily driving and street mannered power characteristics, not high output, race applications. And finally Superchargers... todays Superchargers are mostly centrifugal, not roots. This causes a common misconception that you will be on boost right away. This would be true for a roots charger, but since we're talking centrifugal charger, your boost characteristics would be very similar to turbo's (expect lag). The only reason I would consider a Supercharger for your setup is if there was already a pre-made kit that guarantee's fitment. From what I understand they dont make any F/I kits for the 1UZFE so you will have to fabricate anyway. With all this said, I think the best choice for your 1UZFE would be a single turbo. A twin setup would be too expensive and hard to install (and not to mention would most likely run in parallel giving you no advantages over single). A supercharger would work but you will still have boost lag, not to mention a maximum 70% efficiency (most run @ 50-60%). A single turbo sounds like the best bet because it has the most potential. To choose what turbo would work best for you, you need to find the flow rating for the 1UZFE (I dont know offhand) and match that with the compressor maps for the turbo you're looking at. Also keep in mind the 1UZFE V8 runs at 10.0:1 compression ratio meaning mximum safe boost would be 6-8 psi. To push more boost you'll need to lower the compression ratio.

As for the 2JZGTTE swap, its something to think about. I would usually disagree with swapping in a smaller displacement motor but the aftermarket support of the 2JZ makes it a monster of a motor. Definately something to keep in mind. The only thing is the 2JZGTTE swap is what everone else does, so if you want to stand out, having a boosted 1UZFE is the way to go. If you do decide to do a 2JZGTTE swap remember there is a difference between the pre 98 motor and the 98+ motor. The difference is the 98+ motor is VVTI (digital) and would require converters to work with your stock guage cluster. The pre 98 motor is non VVTI and would drop right in. Also remember that the tranny will need to match so if your car came auto, you might want to go with the auto 2JZ tranny instead of the 6 speed

And I thought Signal Auto only worked on Nissans? Hmmm I dunno ..

MrMigs
07-01-2003, 11:52 PM
Naw.. they do have a lot of Nissans, but they aren't exactly exclusive to them. For example, they even have a drag civic.

Mr. Sparkle
07-02-2003, 01:38 AM
Very well said CrazyHawaiian, I think it should probably be reiterated to newer drivers that first and foremost, it takes a good driver to drift, and not a good car. You could build the most awesome car, but without a good driver it'll go nowhere. That shoul be a sticky on all drift related boards.

For someone learning to drift, learning on a base car with mostly stock parts would be the way to go. It's always good to learn your car's driving habits and limits while it is stock, and then move up as your get a feel for it's limits. The more race tuned a car is, the less forgiving it will be to driver error. I'm a strong believer that LSD should be the first modification in any car that is being prepped for drift. It makes it relatively more controllable and predictable, given you are an adequate enough driver to 'feel' such things.

On a lower horsepower car, not much horsepower will be needed to break the tires loose and drift...a smaller contact patch on the tire will make it easier to break the tires loose while requiring less horsepower...however it will limit you to lower speed tighter radius drifts.

The high horsepower wider tire setup is optimum for experienced drivers, and will enable the car to maintain longer, more showy drifts.

Drifting is all about traction, and I think non grippy tires are good for beginners while the grippy ones are best suited for more experienced drivers. With non grippy tires, there is always a lack of useable traction and thus an overall lack of control over the car. You want to be driving the car, and not vice versa.

1JZ 1JZ 1JZ! with a T51r Special or 30/40 --controlled by vpro ;) that's the route I would go at least.

Signal works on a wide variety of cars, but are well known for their work with nissans and the s-chassis specifically.

Recently finished
Sentra -> SR20DET, Pulsar GTiR engine
AE86 -> 20valve
SC300/400 -> 1JZ/2JZ GTTE
Integra -> Turbo/rebuild
Celica -> 3S-GTE

they'll do a lot of things. If you want a 3S in a corolla they can do it...you just gotta pay to play

Dori Star
07-02-2003, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by MrMigs
Yeah, don't take it from me. I honestly don't know much about forced induction, except for the way the pipes go :D

I don't study things I can't afford hehe

hahahah... true dat, my freind has an ae86 with the 4agze (supercharged), he picked that because the supercharger spools up with the car, instead of turbo, which has lagg.. unless you get a boost cut eliminator (i think) which keeps your turbo spooling.. which MUST be bad... ive driven turbo, and supercharged... i think they are the same, kind of... except the lagg from turbo... :)

MeGaN_DoRi_X
07-02-2003, 09:48 PM
be naturally asperated... like me!!:D

Driftinsc
07-05-2003, 11:18 PM
haha ur not alone i want a tt swap for my car but i can already drift my car cuz its a 5spd(rare) i would like twins better if ur upgrading the turboes

Boosted
07-06-2003, 04:44 AM
You could do a twin sequential setup so there isn't as much lag but it will be expensive. A big single would be better suited for drag racing.

AllMotorKing
07-06-2003, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by Boosted
You could do a twin sequential setup so there isn't as much lag but it will be expensive. A big single would be better suited for drag racing.

Actually it depends on your application. A larger turbo takes longer to spool up, thus your "turbo lag" might have more effect especially on a 1/4 mile for drag racing because the time intervals are short.

If you do twin turbo on a drag car that's mo-betta because you can spool two smaller turbos quicker than you could spool one phat-*Censored**Censored**Censored* turbo. Get my Drift?

So if you're doing like top speed runs, go for big-bertha.

Boosted
07-06-2003, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by AllMotorKing
Actually it depends on your application. A larger turbo takes longer to spool up, thus your "turbo lag" might have more effect especially on a 1/4 mile for drag racing because the time intervals are short.

If you do twin turbo on a drag car that's mo-betta because you can spool two smaller turbos quicker than you could spool one phat-*Censored**Censored**Censored* turbo. Get my Drift?

So if you're doing like top speed runs, go for big-bertha. nitrous to help with the spool up.

AllMotorKing
07-06-2003, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by Boosted
nitrous to help with the spool up.

Nitrous to help f*ck up your car

Drift-Induced
07-06-2003, 03:17 PM
hmmm, how about either a SICK done up naturally aspirated motor...like all aftermarket internals, do the bottom and top end, blueprint and balance the motor, port/polish, 3angle valve job, knife edged crank, and of course do all you bolt ons, pulleys, etc and get a NICE aftermarket rad to cool things down. this will be easier to control overall, cause u wont get any boost surges, lag, etc...just smooooth clean pullin all the way to ....10,000rpm? ;)

OR go ONE single large turbo with all the goodies! :D single is better than twin...i cant remember all the reasons, but one good one was that u have one less turbo to blow! lol ;) and its easier to manage and u can actually get more power. Now throw in a good clutch (stage 3 at least, depending on how powerful u go) and all yer brakes, suspension, cooling work, and u are good to go :D OH, and a set of RA-1's if u are doing circuit....as for driftin...hehe, find wutever bald-*Censored**Censored**Censored* rear u can! :D

Dori Star
07-06-2003, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by AllMotorKing
Nitrous to help f*ck up your car

hahha, use it for chillin your intercooler (freeze your boost) :)

CrazyHawaiian
07-06-2003, 09:42 PM
If used properly, nitrous wont mess up your motor. Its the people that dont know when to use it, or the people that use too much that end up blowing their motors. Boosted mentioned a good technique to battle turbo lag, a window switching nitrous system set to deliver a small shot of nitrous (20-40) at the lower RPM will bring you into the powerband (boost) faster. Alot safer than blasting the motor with a 150 shot near redline (this is how you blow motors). And like Dori-Star said, nitrous also has cooling properties. If used properly it can be used to lower the temperature of air going into the motor. Cooler air = denser air = more air getting packed in. But not too sure about freezing your boost (LOL!), maybe you're thinking of spraying the IC with water (like the Evo 8)??

Dori Star
07-06-2003, 11:06 PM
thats kinda my expression for chillin your boost... haha, freeze your boost!!!

hey, in tha newest superstreet... they have something called the cry-o2, same thing, except its o2, must check it out....

Mr. Sparkle
07-07-2003, 02:14 AM
N2O is great for cooling. It works wonders for turbocharged vehicles when sprayed onto the intercooler. Personally I'd use a water+alchohol mix for IC cooling.

Dori Star
07-07-2003, 01:45 PM
Mr. sparkle - Personally I'd use a water+alchohol mix for IC cooling. hows that work?

MeGaN_DoRi_X
07-07-2003, 10:34 PM
how does that work i would really like to know :confused:

jinsei888
07-08-2003, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by Boosted
nitrous to help with the spool up.

For touge, I don't think so man... :o

MeGaN_DoRi_X
07-08-2003, 06:08 PM
true true! :D but you would think that people who really touge would know this already haha.


NOS I NEED NOS AND HARRY I NEED IT BY TONIGHT!

tontot77
07-13-2003, 06:21 PM
single turbo, pm me with any questions

7akumi X
07-14-2003, 12:35 AM
IMHO! :X Its a heavy car, keep the RPM's high during the drift by downshifting accordingly before going into the drift to utelize the fair sized turbo when you need it. I mean dont get a turbo large enough that when you downshift to 5-6 x1000 rpm that it will not be nearly instantanious boost...you want to be able to predict what your cars gonna do and shift on the fly!:D

Dori Star
07-14-2003, 01:30 PM
::nods:: :)

DriftGirl
08-11-2003, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by tontot77
single turbo, pm me with any questions

custom work?

marshun
08-11-2003, 03:22 PM
i say single turbo. smaller turbo, quicker spool, less lag.

i know some of you say you've driven a turbo car, but it doesnt really seem like it. turbo lag is hardly there if the turbo's are small. quick spool up.

its easier to tune a car with a lower compression ratio with higher boost. but if you can tune well and the internal's are well then you can boost big amounts with the higher compression.

and as for the thread starter... i think you should try and drift the car the way it is now. because the faster you go the harder it gets. kinda like drifting when its raining.

on the nitrous helpin spool up. i'd like to see you try it. spray for a spool up. please record this on video so i can laugh when you blow that *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* up :P

DriftGirl
08-11-2003, 05:18 PM
The car does well Drifting....I like the control that the V8 gives.

The SR20XXX is sitting and waiting for a an upgraded turbo and then it'll be about a month or 2 before its on the road(waiting 4 other 'stuff').....I cant wait...need boost...noooooowwwwwwww :D

there are Superchargers on the market for the 1UZFE but I think a single set-up would be really cool.

And I can take the nitrous out of the car :p

5PointslOwner
08-12-2003, 09:48 AM
#1..id say that a supercharger would be best for your application, becuast with a S/C you get that instant torque and u need that to get your wheels spinning,comared to a turbo with turbo lag

#2 nitrous doesnt do anything to your engine besides give it horsepower., it blows peoples engines becuse there engine either

-not running enought fuel to accomodate the extra oxygen that nitrous gives you.

-the engine isnt strong enought to withstand the pressure of nitrous

-the shot is just to big for the engine.

Sky_kiD
11-29-2003, 02:51 AM
engines that did not use superchargers origionally are put under alot of stress when they do, and the engines sometimes feel sluggish when supercharged, theres very little you can do.

see, since the sc is powered off your crank, or accesory, or even alternator, thats putting a significant resistance on your engine, sometimes to the equivilent of running 3 or 4 ac units,

i dunno, tryed the sc path on a old 3.0 v6, didnt really liked how it turned out, I mean it was torqey and was much faster, just not as precise

and precision is important while drifting.

single small turbo setup would have little lag, as long as your rpm's stay up you would never notice, and the engine would still be perky.

but nothing beats itb/na setup :p *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*

z33Drifter
11-29-2003, 06:01 AM
i like goin with turbos if you have the right set up they work efficiently

nightracer
11-30-2003, 12:34 AM
My advice would be to listen to crazy Hawaiian, as he is on point here. I would also like to reiterate that you can induce drift with a smaller sized or less sticky tire. Differences in tire compound for the rears is something to look into. Hard compound tires spin and sticky tires grip, you need to be some where in between. You want to have enough control to throw the rear-end out and bring it back in safely.

Also the kind of tires you're going to use on the car will be a variable in the equation of how well you are able to control and induce drift. Sticky tires up front and hard, wide tires in the back wont necessarily be the best set up for you. You need a contact patch that will enable your car to easily throw the back end out and bring it back in at your convienience.

You're looking at custom fabrication and fitment for everything.
There is really no sense in boosting a 1UZ when you can swap in an allready tried and proven turbo motor that will give you gobs of more power for cheaper. You could get a 1JZ-GTE, 1.5JZ-GTE or even a 2JZ-GTE, mod it and swap it in your self for reasonable price compared to upgrade costs for the v8. Your objective here is not to make gobs of power with two tiny a__ turbos or a HUGE turbo and crazy a/r #'s. You need a correctly-sized turbo with a compressor map for YOUR specific application, DRIFTING.. Ya gota have as much of a usable power band as possible. A 2JZ-GTE on a T-60 would spool very fast and deliver that instant power you need to get and stay sideways. There are a host of turbo applications for those motors I suggest you look into them.

nightracer
11-30-2003, 12:50 AM
I didn't vote because I don't see a reason in you modding that motor unless you build it up as an high-power, high-compression N/A drift motor and even that would be questionable and unreasonably expensive.

Get one of the Supra motors, a well configured turbo set up and be happy.. Hell a 2JZ on reworked stock twins w/ BPUs will put down a lot of power. I vote for a Supra drive line..

driftxtreem
11-30-2003, 12:54 AM
Drift Girl send me a PM and Ill get you all the info you need for your setup. That car in Japan came stock with sequential turbos and a 5 spd. There all over and you can use the supra set up as well. Dont just bolt something on to the engine you have without first examining what other benifits and draws this could have to your set up. mainly compression, dont double up a metal head gasket and think this will work. Rod and piston stress the turbo engines have diferent rods and pistons with specific compretion ratios. What about the ECU you will need more fuel and timing to run the boost you want the one you have know will not work it will need to be remaped and maybe because it is for the US market my have to be tossed. I have a 2JZ from a Aristo 16 with all the stuff you need 280 hp bone stock throw on a Fcon or the apex (which is better because its in english) and you got 320 to 400 HP on the factory parts other that an exaust and a intake. What do you think has really been done on the Vertex car that makes it so fast. The answer is right in front of you. Good Luck