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pure_drift
07-03-2004, 09:04 AM
Hey, I just finished watching the first episode it was alraight. The host is hot and all, but they should change her.... the beginning she was like if u are looking for show cars and flashy lights this isn't the show for you BUSTER... wtf lol and then she is i dont usally say buster I say sucka!!! That was *Censored**Censored**Censored*!!! But w/e.... They should have 2 more people staring a 3rd gen 240sx project!!!! I loved the comerical when the 350z drifted around the turn and the old lady got freaked out... and mario anderddi and some other guy started chasing him that was sick!!! :D


Who else watched it?

RallyGT
07-03-2004, 09:06 AM
i just finished watching it...it was alright, but courtney day seemed too fake...she didnt know what she was talkin about

WildSe7en
07-03-2004, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by RallyGT
i just finished watching it...it was alright, but courtney day seemed too fake...she didnt know what she was talkin about

she probably didn't. She said she'd been to IAS 3 times already but she didnt say that she was just a model.

IMO it was pretty good compared to the other sport compact shows they've had in the past.

MrodDrft
07-03-2004, 09:11 AM
that show was ghey, all they do is talk and add ghey effects to the drifting sequences... i just want to see the cars ! That sucked the APEXi Lancer blew a LSD

DriftNation8
07-03-2004, 09:46 AM
The show itself was ok I guess. The hostess sounded a bit too much like she was reading from a script. Obviously she is, but it could've been delivered a little better. Compared to other shows it's considerably better.

What I'm wondering about is JGTCUSA?? This was the first time that I had heard about it officially coming to north america but isn't it's Sunday date going to conflict with D1's USA VS Japan Top 16 event on Dec 19th at Irwindale??? Plus on the JGTC sunday schedule they have 3 drifting sessions, can anyone shed any light on this?

RallyGT
07-03-2004, 09:50 AM
speaking of that....
Japan is gonna lay the smack down

MrodDrft
07-03-2004, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by RallyGT
speaking of that....
Japan is gonna lay the smack down


lol def

DRIFTER-M
07-03-2004, 09:55 AM
the show was pretty good...but like all of you coutney did sound fake like she was reading from a script(which she was) but anyway I still think they had some cool clips and the commercials were awesome too!

RallyGT
07-03-2004, 09:58 AM
they showed the same commercails every time...it was annoying. but still....courtney day's legs are so niiiiicceee

chuaboi36
07-03-2004, 10:00 AM
man, i can't watch it. did anyone tape it?

parknglotdrfter
07-03-2004, 10:09 AM
hey i live in texas, what time was it on? i missed it

RotaDrift
07-03-2004, 10:15 AM
it was pretty good...seeing how it's the only import show on there now.....and that it's based around drifting and the JGTC and not car shows and drag racing is definetly a big plus...

Piner
07-03-2004, 10:47 AM
I slept in too late.. i woke up at 12:09 and it comes on at like 11:30 here and i was like SH!T! i wanted to watch it to see if it was anygood but now i have to wait for a rerun. Damn

MrodDrft
07-03-2004, 10:50 AM
u didnt miss much.. besides some few month old chopped up D1 footage with blurry effects all over it and voice overs

chuaboi36
07-03-2004, 11:06 AM
lol, u make it sound terrible.

MrodDrft
07-03-2004, 11:09 AM
Im used to Option maybe thats why.. They did not capture the whole excitment or thrill of drifting how it is.. the LOUD cars, tires and screaming turbos.. They cover it up with crap music and voice over explaining wat drifting is... And their camera angles werent so great... Besides the footage is all like 5 months old.

spock
07-03-2004, 11:33 AM
The problem is the big corporations behind these shows try to hard to make it appeal to the gangsta/hardass type with all the (c)rap music and effects and ditzy blondes for hosts. What they need to do is get rid of the stupid music and effects and get people in there that actually know what they're talking about so they can say whatever they want unscripted.

Piner
07-03-2004, 11:54 AM
yeah they nee to have alex P. host it damnit

ryen49
07-03-2004, 12:00 PM
only thing bad about it was craigh liberman being in it and this being all of his idea.

Trevultaspeed
07-03-2004, 12:01 PM
the show sucked... the host is fake, and its hardly "in-depth"... ill stick to just buying my Grip video magazine dvd's.... any show about cars that goes on tv, dont expect much, cause it doesnt give much.

all this show is going to do is make drifting and import market a big trend, and a buncha little kids are gunna go trying to throw their first cars or parents cars around corners.... oh well

yarzan
07-03-2004, 12:17 PM
yeah she was a crappy host! just saw it and it sucked, shes all like "this shows not about cars on pedastools and falshing lights, and then her car is a freakin eclipse with airbags and lambo doors, how rice~! but that girls really got to memorize her lines and make it seem more real, i mean the whole buster thing? oh my *Censored**Censored**Censored*! the ads were good. but i dont know, too much sex appeal in her skirt, make her wear jeans man, we dont want driftingf to end up like the impoirt scene, where sex is the only way to sell.

wont be here for the JGTC :(

DoriAltis
07-03-2004, 12:46 PM
theb JGTC stuff was something I was looking foward to, but it's all stuff everyone's seen before. I've seen that supra plow through the Nomad Diablo on a load of dvds. What happened to Super 2nr tv?

yarzan
07-03-2004, 12:56 PM
what happened to super 2ner? ladies and gentleman, doriatlis is a rare breed of human. He is one of the 7 people that actually watched super 2ner... wow.:eek: :eek: :eek:

The Drifter D
07-03-2004, 01:06 PM
Yeah, super2ner was better. IT was more "real"

PhoPower
07-03-2004, 01:55 PM
well guys dont forget this was the first show like more of a intro to the series so probably later it would get better

RotaDrift
07-03-2004, 02:18 PM
i watched every episode of super2ner and the lasst one was when they said they were covering a track event.......and then poof....buncha crotch rocket shows and a nascar show came up...

I wish they would've kept doing that show:(

MrodDrft
07-03-2004, 02:19 PM
Its like a ricers introduction into drifting

DoriAltis
07-03-2004, 04:13 PM
HAHAHA, Yarzan, cracking me up!

Super 2nr tv seemed to have a lot of backing and support, it was created by Primedia and its magazines were running monthly articles about the Koz twins' Triple Crown Supra. Seemed like a sure thing, but it just disappeared one day. Shame

I hope Redline gets its act together. I want to see the JGTC racer profiles they said they were gonna show. I really hope they don't end up just showcasing Taniguchi and Orido and make them seem like the only 2 drivers in the league

Drifting.com should have its own show. The Moderators or whoever can talk about the stuff we talk about on the forums.......followed by a Rado bashing segment,haha

drift matic
07-03-2004, 05:30 PM
it was ok its good it shows jgtc here is the website to it www.redline-tv.com

PhoPower
07-03-2004, 05:59 PM
i was just looking at there site and guess who i saw on there production team? Craig Lieberman. so we might not get the most stuff we want but there will be some good stuff to pass our time with. Hopefully it will get better, plus it was the first show so not be as good as we expected.

spock
07-03-2004, 06:42 PM
Craig Lieberman
Co-Producer of Redline TV: An automotive enthusiast since 1980, Craig Lieberman has held sales, marketing and Motorsports positions for 15 years. His experience has encompassed heading up an import drag racing series and consulting for video games, TV shows, and both Fast and Furious movies. He even built several of the main cars in both movies, including the orange Supra and the Skyline. Since signing on as MagnaFlow's Director of Marketing in early 2003, Lieberman has aggressively revamped their print and TV advertising campaign, including opening up new opportunities such as MagnaFlow's participation in Redline TV.
He's like that little annoying kid down the street that get's in to everything you're in to and ruins it. Someone, please, MAKE HIM STOP! AWWW!

Weapon X
07-03-2004, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by spock
He's like that little annoying kid down the street that get's in to everything you're in to and ruins it. Someone, please, MAKE HIM STOP! AWWW!

That's a great analogy, I'm tired of hearing his name. He tried to sell his car on Fresh Alloy in two seperate threads and he was just massacred endlessly. The guy's a douche.

FLAME PATROL
07-03-2004, 07:18 PM
Your post was not deleted, but the thread was split so the original thread stays on topic and you were sent a PM when this was done.

This is the link to the new thread.
http://www.drifting.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5870




Originally posted by KevinCrawford
Originally posted by MrodDrft
hey i may not have my liscence but i know more about drifting than mostly everyone here. I may not have the actual driving expierience yet or the more complicated aspects of the technical side, but i know all the history, the drivers, the cars, and mostly everything. Just ask me drifting trivia.. lol

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, the admins deleted my post... oh well... anyways, long story short... shut up MrodDrft.

Nuff Said

Kevin

spock
07-03-2004, 07:22 PM
The problem is, as far as I can tell, is that he's in it for the money and not the love of the sport. According to his little profile on the Redline-TV site he's had a lot of experience with marketing, sales and advertising. So, by his nature, he's just gonna sell out anything he can get his grubby little hands on. He saw the current trend in the "import scene" was drifting and dollar signs popped up in his eyes. I don't expect anything good coming from his direction any time soon.

Weapon X
07-03-2004, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by spock
The problem is, as far as I can tell, is that he's in it for the money and not the love of the sport. According to his little profile on the Redline-TV site he's had a lot of experience with marketing, sales and advertising. So, by his nature, he's just gonna sell out anything he can get his grubby little hands on. He saw the current trend in the "import scene" was drifting and dollar signs popped up in his eyes. I don't expect anything good coming from his direction any time soon.

He's just a business man.

streetkid
07-03-2004, 08:21 PM
I saw that show I'd give it a 4 out of 10. The chick said the show was not about show cars and stuff 2 min. later there at a *censored* *censored* *censored* car show...WTF?

But the part with JGTC and the EVO and subie were sweet!

spinitsidewayz!
07-03-2004, 09:26 PM
....redline tv brought to you by magnaflow exhaust... you catch our drift..? (omg wtf...)

RallyGT
07-03-2004, 10:22 PM
god dam...i went to the site...and they DONT EVEN KNOW THE NAMES OF THE "DRIFT CARS". they just say "auto link drift car or some stupid sh!t. check it out http://www.redline-tv.com/cars.htm

s0nny80y
07-03-2004, 10:34 PM
You guys think that the shows execs are reading this site to see how the drifting crowd reacted to its show?

I mean, if they do, I really hope they listen to what we think instead of what the "ricers" want (which could be online rice forums and ricey car shows).

spinitsidewayz!
07-03-2004, 11:51 PM
most likey they would listen to the majority...

doesnt matter, you dont need a show to drift.

Shin180sx
07-03-2004, 11:53 PM
1. The show sucks. Too little info and the segments were way to short.

2. Everything seemed to focus more on the bling factor of drifting nothing about technique or car setup

3. That host/model is *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*ing retarded.

Craig is a *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*ing moron. Why the hell is his fatass a consultant. He's probably never been under a car much less knows how internal combustion works. I can think of a few people here in Tampa that are REAL drifters and REAL mechanics that would make much better consultants than his money grubbing *Censored**Censored**Censored*.

DoriAltis
07-03-2004, 11:59 PM
if any show execs really are looking at our post, take this down, you show sucks and damn you for adding yourselves to the long list of people tearing down the industry from the inside

Ripper
07-04-2004, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by PhoPower
Hopefully it will get better, plus it was the first show so not be as good as we expected.
um. actually i think it's usually the FIRST episode is the best.(take fox's shows for example) cuz imean you wanna grab the audience's attention and want them craving for more. right?

prodigy
07-04-2004, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by KevinCrawford
Originally posted by MrodDrft
hey i may not have my liscence but i know more about drifting than mostly everyone here. I may not have the actual driving expierience yet or the more complicated aspects of the technical side, but i know all the history, the drivers, the cars, and mostly everything. Just ask me drifting trivia.. lol

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, the admins deleted my post... oh well... anyways, long story short... shut up MrodDrft.

Nuff Said

Kevin

Screw it I take it back. I can't believe you were *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* enough to hide behind a different sn. I am on Mrod side, so if you want to hate on him you are going to have to hate on me as well. So bring it.

Blaze
07-04-2004, 04:38 AM
I woke up at 11:20 so I wouldnt be all sleepy during the show. I was really looking forward to what they had to give. It felt like the show was 10 mins long. I mean, come on. Other shows I watch don't feel that short. Redline needed more info and a waaaay better hosting job, as stated by other people. I guess I'll just stick to Option.

my 1 88 u
07-04-2004, 07:27 AM
anybody know were it can be downloaded?

cbxweb
07-04-2004, 01:34 PM
lol silly kids. The show does need improvments. When I saw that "maganaflow presents" thing at top, I was like oh no. And exec producer Craig Liberman, and that makes things seem bad. Personally, I dont know what the hell a magnaflow is, if I can remember its some hillbilly stuff, and when i was looking through an assorated import mag and I saw they *Censored**Censored**Censored* ad saying"catch our drift?" and some cartoon character doing "JDM" poses, I was like who do these guys think they are?

Seems like they are jumping on the bandwagon....

MrodDrft
07-04-2004, 02:09 PM
magnaflow is a good exhaust company for muscle cars and domestics.. v8 power :)

truenoking8six
07-04-2004, 08:13 PM
Yeah i maybe a newb to this sight but im def not a newb to the world of drifting. And i happen to agree with what mrod is sayin.

pure_drift
07-04-2004, 09:11 PM
exactly and when you see us rollin you gotta halla at us u know what i mean be clear lol Funkmaster Flex lol kool guy

I'm also 14 man I cant bolive this is a sticky finnally I get some respect I know alot about cars and etc. Im into suspension I'm not tryin to learn as much as I can so when I get my car I will know how to mod it right!!!!!

Ziptyed
07-05-2004, 12:30 PM
Hey I've got an Idea why don't we all send in letters to redline tv, spike tv whatever and give them the real angle, like maybe they could have a guest appearances of like up and comers,pro's, and also show vids that people send in, and definetly get new sponsors. wtf is up with msd and all those domestic companies jumping on the bandwagon. any way I don't wan't to see any more shows like that *Censored**Censored**Censored* Nopi one. after watching that for like a minute, i got pissed off and yelled at the lamp, and my main reason to get all this stuff on the show is that we could then have people behind the scenes, and bring down the system from the inside, thaty'll teach those *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*ers. lol. this is what happens when a drifter and an anarchist get loose and become friends.


P.S. I haven't gotten any sleep in 2 days.

MrodDrft
07-05-2004, 12:51 PM
I dont think its a good idea to send in home videos

Ziptyed
07-05-2004, 12:53 PM
I meant like track time vids and no rice.

MrodDrft
07-05-2004, 01:00 PM
yea, but home videos ppl would do retarded stuff on the street and get ppl busted up or sumthing, just like Jackass

Ziptyed
07-05-2004, 01:12 PM
yeah I guess your right. Wait a second. You're from Mass. What part. I used to live in Marshfield.

MrodDrft
07-05-2004, 01:18 PM
Im in Lynn, situated right outside of Boston

Ziptyed
07-05-2004, 01:33 PM
thats cool, so how's drifting in boston?

MrodDrft
07-05-2004, 01:38 PM
non-existant, except ive seen one nice black s14 with deep gunmetal gram lights and a nice exhaust.. other than that... nothing

Ziptyed
07-05-2004, 02:09 PM
You should hit up Duxberry at night. Lots of winding roads. I drove my cousins auto Infiniti I30 through there, got some little inertia drifts going there but it's FF so it's hard as hell. But wow was it fun!

MrodDrft
07-05-2004, 02:14 PM
If redline got a better host and some better features it would b good.. but watelse is there besides features and a host... nothing.. haha thats the whole show

FD3S_pilot
07-05-2004, 08:16 PM
redline tv suck, the host sucked(such a fake, she a model!!), that craig guy dam someone needs to beat him up..he's sooo annoying....and that slogan of magnaflow..."Catch our Drift?" that's so g-ay and annoying now...i bet anyone 5 bucks that we'll hear more dumbos tryin to drift....i give the show about a month before we all get to hear CANCELLED!!! I hope they dont even try to show Touge..at least the didnt show the Drift King cuz that would really kill his reputation...."Catch our Drift?" dam they killed that!!!

nissanguy_24
07-05-2004, 09:06 PM
Now i have not seen this show yet. I hope to catch it next week. Some of the things i heard were talking about the music and strange camera angles and effects added. I have to say, this is not what we want in a car show.

Now i know it seems like a cool idea. but heres a good example. ON Spike TV there was a show called "Super 2ner TV" not a bad show really. The host were abit annoying. i mean they seemed genuin but they were the Emenem looking white guys into rap and stuff type. Thats fine... but not my cup of tea. so no biggie, but they had an Episode where they showed a pair of Nissan Skyline. Now its very rare that we get to see skylines on American TV, so i was very excited. And they had good technical information on the skylines and the host knew what they were talking about but the camera angles and effects were awfull. There was never a straight shot of the skyline that lasted more then a single second. Everything was a fast pan, or a split screen or the screen would go into four parts, each of a different angle then it would go negative image. All this stuff. Honestly after a 5 minute segment on the R32 i couldnt tell you if the body was stock or what kind of wheels or brakes it was running because they never showed a solid picture. All we really needed was a solid shot for 30 or 40 seconds. Now i know you think us "kids" and our "Mtv" makes us not able to concentrate on anything not moving.


However, How many of those kids buy serious performance products? and how many serious enthusiest do.. Okay then.. Yeah 10 kids might buy 10 fast and the furious seat covers, but 1 enthusiest may plop down 3500 dollars for a turbo kit.

After Super 2ner TV went off Horse power tv went on. Old school domestic show, but entertaining. They showed there feature car with one long 30 second shot of the car. Then a few long shots like that of the interior and the wheels and the rear. Very nice, i saw more of the charger or wahtever it was ( i dont recall) then my beloved skyline.

Also about the hostest, like i said i didnt see, but i hear she was dressed in a miniskirt or something sexy, thats fine, i like girls, but you know what, Drifters are not just about that, we see our sexy girls as equals not just models, stick her in a racing suit or a team uniform or a nismo tshirt and jeans next time! now thats sex appeal!

Remember drifting is the most exciting motorsports ever, it doesnt need blind and jazz to spice it up! just show us raw footage of the cars, excellent video of the best duels and leave the special effects at home! that will a drifting show i will love. I hope the producers of Redline tv read this and take my kind words into consideration when they work on there next few episodes!

Thank you for listening....

- Nissanguy

MrodDrft
07-05-2004, 10:02 PM
They actually lost the excitment of drifting with the camera and editing work, and the lack of roaring sr20's and 4ag's

yarzan
07-05-2004, 10:25 PM
i agree with nissanguy bout the girels thing, anyone who went to DD17 can remember the stret fury guy, watch drift society vol. 1 to see what im talking about.

FD3S_pilot
07-05-2004, 10:47 PM
WoW maybe Nissanguy should be the host on redline cuz not only will he set things right but we'll know that he's knows whats he talking about and that his one of us!!!

DoriAltis
07-05-2004, 11:05 PM
leave it to Nissanguy to bring some sanity to our posts, haha

A.YEN
07-06-2004, 01:39 AM
if anything, well i cant say that it was the best show ever but its a start to something. you guys have to remmber that they cant just come out with a drifting show by it self, but they are trying to push drifting in to the public. Well the host needs to go but all the stuff she said was actually good. Remember that there are many other import sports and markets out there that would like to get on TV also. to me its a start for the import market and drifting together and it should turn out ok

well if you ever see the other shows on TV, they are all stupid in a way if you already know whats going on, but to the new peps that are just getting in to it, its really good for the public

CourtneyDayFan
07-06-2004, 05:20 AM
As much as I know you guys would love to see a hardcore drifter host the show, you need to remember that sex sells, and a show is looking for ratings. People from outside the drifting world will watch. I've already read on other forums outside the automotive industry that they watched soley because of the hostess, not because of the drifting and cars. They said they could care less about that part. Maybe in 2 years when it gets even more popular they won't need it, but right now eye candy works and sponsors and production teams know this.

Give Courtney and the show a few more episodes and I think you may warm up to it.

By the way, I am sure the producers and staff of Redline are reading, so your criticism, as long as it's constuctive, could help.

my 1 88 u
07-06-2004, 06:01 AM
we'll ive finally found were to download it. if you have BitTorent it should be hard to find it.

That show was the absolute worse. It was like a funk flex rides segment stretched to 20minutes. The best thing about it was the commercials. All they showed of JGTC was crashing!!!!W.T.F. no passing?!! They start to test company tuner cars at the track and dont show anything for more than a fraction of a second. That sucked because we see these expensive beautiful cars in mags, read there numbers but know absolutely nothing of how they move, here was there chance to show us and they managed to blow it. Even sports car revelution on speed channel knows how to capture a race lap on camerea.
I agree that the info presented was not bad at all, but the editer needs to be shot.

my 1 88 u
07-06-2004, 06:10 AM
Originally posted by CourtneyDayFan
As much as I know you guys would love to see a hardcore drifter host the show, you need to remember that sex sells, and a show is looking for ratings. People from outside the drifting world will watch. I've already read on other forums outside the automotive industry that they watched soley because of the hostess, not because of the drifting and cars. They said they could care less about that part. Maybe in 2 years when it gets even more popular they won't need it, but right now eye candy works and sponsors and production teams know this.

Give Courtney and the show a few more episodes and I think you may warm up to it.

By the way, I am sure the producers and staff of Redline are reading, so your criticism, as long as it's constuctive, could help.

What was she thinking when she chose that outfit in the mourning. it wasn't even sexy, back in my highschool she would've gotten teased or even outcasted for that lack of fashion sense. That was not even mtv standards for sex apeal. to allready drifters and fans she annoyed and even affended, to new comers she might of been dismissed and ignored as a plain white girl that is trying to hard.

AlexPfeiffer
07-06-2004, 09:26 AM
I personally though that was a very good start for the show.

Noted that:
1 The host needs work and sounds too much like a script
2 the drifting shots were too fast and didnt really show what drifting is.
3 The AIS show coverage shouldnt have been in there
4 All the shots were too quick

Other things:

1 They actually did a good job explaining drifting in a short way and to the general public but they also should have had a seg with how the comp actually works and give a run brief run down with couple full runs. They way they kept doing short shots of drifting really didnt give the right effect that it is a sport and not just people out there wasting tires.

2 They are doing a good job pushing JGTC.

3 In the seg with the lancer and wrx, not in dept enough.

4 If your going to do a seg on a show (even AIS) you should take the time to find something really cool and explain why it is so cool or rare, kinda like hotrod tv does at there shows.
O wait, i forgot, import car shows have nothing cool or rare. (<---- that was a cheep shot, i hate car shows)


All in all, I think they do have things to work on but it was a good start for something cool to develop. It was alot better than that stupid tnr tv.

STFUAD
07-06-2004, 09:55 AM
I actually thought the show was pretty good. Remember that this was the first show and they didn't receive any input on it yet. I think atleast it is heading in the right direction. I did find it kind of weird that the host said that it wasn't about all the bling or something and neons and then they have footage of a car show. Go figure... The JGTC stuff was pretty tight. The drifting was very short and could have been longer. I like how they tested out the cars and such.

Let's not be too critical after the first episode. I for one am glad this kind of television is on... it's better than no coverage of our passion, performance cars, right?

Redline-TV
07-06-2004, 10:09 AM
I am one of the executive producers of Redline TV. I just wanted to let you guys know that we are listening and appreciate your feedback. Thank you.

Please know that Redline TV's production team is full of car enthusiasts. With a passion for the automotive aftermarket, we wanted to make a show that is true to the automotive enthusiast. We value what you guys have to say!

Remember, you guys have only seen the first episode. There are more to come. We will continue to work hard on Redline TV. We will continue to make changes to the show...they might not be immediate since some of the shows have already been produced, but know that you have been heard!


check out: www.redline-tv.com

DONKEY_WEAR
07-06-2004, 10:39 AM
it seems ok but i dont like how everything tight has to go mainstream....it was tight when it was more underground...like when people didnt noe what a silvia or a hachi was i mean ill be with some of my friends and outta no where well c a stock 240 and my friends will say o thats a pretty clean silvia and im like wtf iwell ne way what my point is i dont think drifting should of gona mainstream but hey i guesss i mean too late to bring it back now....

truenoking8six
07-06-2004, 11:00 AM
For me i hope drifting dies out so that its not popular anymore. As a matter of fact i love drifting. But the fact that its going mainstream pisses me off a bit. I hope it turns into a trend, that way it will die out, that way all of the bandwagon(bandwagon lol) people that are trying to drift will just stop and stop ricing it out. Pretty soon youll see drift cars with neons, dubs, and altezas, and the drivers in the cars are gunna be all gangsta gangsta. And the only reason this type of crowd will drift is because they wanna be cool and stay trendy(hmm *Censored**Censored**Censored*ots). Well anyways if drifting became uncool i would still love it

nissanguy_24
07-06-2004, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by CourtneyDayFan

By the way, I am sure the producers and staff of Redline are reading, so your criticism, as long as it's constuctive, could help.

I hope so... Actually you know courtny really well, so could you pass my post on to them threw her? I want this show to be successful, and im sure you want her to be successful and i feel the things i suggested are very important.

Never mind.. i broke one of my own rules, i posted rapidly before i had i chance to view everyone else's response...


But yeah.. one thing i highly recommend is longer single camera angle shots. Let people see a full out drifting battle from the D1 or something to see how it works! That would be a good explanation.

Anyways listen to Mister Yen and Pfieffer they are both skilled and respected in this little sport of ours. Hell... feel free to hire some guys like them up for alittle consultant work. I know they would probably apreciate it.

And i am glad you guys from redline are reading our little message board and listening to us. It means alot. Please ignore some of the more harsh post, but also listen to the wise and suggestive post. Aparently all your stuff is good, but it needs to be reedited and our hostest needs to be alittle more comfortable it seems... im telling you one of those jumpsuites the racing teamsware would be nice!

anyways thanks for listening.

And to the rest of our users, you need to understand if you dont like something explaining it calmly and clearly is by far superior to just insulting it... This is a pretty busy board we get alot of people comming threw, so your words, if wise, may influence someone or something in the industry... this board has given the humblest fan and the biggest pro a mouth piece to make there feelings about the industry heard. So please lets keep it respectable and clean.

MrodDrft
07-06-2004, 11:06 AM
Drift cars already do have neon, "dubs", and altezzas. Too late buddy. Drifting has been mainstream before u were born. In Japan that is.

craiglieberman
07-06-2004, 11:40 AM
Glad to hear that people watched...even more glad to see some feedback.

Many assumptions and notes were spot on...most of us on the production team agree that each topic was lightly discussed, but this was done on purpose, more as an intro and explanation.

Future episodes will hopefull go deeper into each profile, showcase car sounds and in-car experiences more dramatically, etc.

I was dissappointed that people didn't praise the JGTC coverage or drift coverage more. Thought we showcased something no one has ever showcased before (hell, JGTC has never been on TV in America before) and a profile of Alex explaining what drifting is and the various techniques (we thought) was something never done on TV before.

As for 2NR, that show died because the hosts didn't get to shape the programming....as enthusiasts themselves, they didn't get to pick the features, the parent company did. That won't happen here.

Redline is run by a full staff of car nuts, including the owner of Modified magazine. And despite on joker's claims, I do in fact work on and modify my own cars, own an SCCA and an NHRA license and have a wee bit of experience in the performance world.

As for sponsors, you have to remember that any company is free to buy commercials...we have little control over that.

As one fellow pointed out, this was indeed the first episode. Expect to see more JGTC coverage, more drifting coverage, interviews with real Japanese drivers (again, a first) and this was the first tuner show to showcase tuner cars at the track. I'm pushing very hard for more performance stats, rather than overviews of the cars and their parts.

As for the *ahem* gentlemen who suggested that perhaps I'm in it for the money, let me offer a friendly reminder that I get paid to offer marketing solutions and programs that provide exposure to the affiliated partners. You may call it 'selling out,' some call it 'having the best job in the world.' Unlike some, I pour a great deal of my earned money right back into the hobby....much to the dismay of my ladies ;-)

Stay tuned...the best is yet to come...and thanks to those of you offering constructive criticisms.

mranlet
07-06-2004, 11:45 AM
LOL - Craig Lieberman is here?!

-MR

spock
07-06-2004, 11:50 AM
Please make the shows more like Option and Best Motoring videos and less, I don't know, "ricey" I guess. For me, the draw of Option and BMI is not that they're Japanese, but they have what the shows here in America lack: minimal stupid music and dumb effects, hosts and commentators that know what they're talking about and they're not trying to push some sort of market. It's blatantly obvious that you're trying to appeal to the "Fast and Furious" crowd and it really turns me off (and I'm sure it's the same for alot of others). Even though sex does sell, we don't want some supermodel reading off cue cards. Although she's easy on the eyes, a male host may work better. And not some Eminem wannabe. You need someone that actually knows what they're talking about. Anyways, I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm thought maybe some constructive criticism might help.
And, oh yeah, they have had JGTC on Speed Channel before. I should know. I watched it.

AllMotorKing
07-06-2004, 11:51 AM
damn, this show is getting butchered in its first week. i missed it but will try to catch this next week.

i'm not saying anything but it's going to be over when the live sockets boys get their tv show. only then will the revolution be televised!

MrodDrft
07-06-2004, 12:13 PM
JGTC was on the speed channel first, and drifting was first on Super2nr.

Xantos
07-06-2004, 12:47 PM
are you sure it was on Super2nr first? I remeber seeing a short 3 mintue thingy on drifting on the Speed channel about a year and half ago. I could be wrong

mranlet
07-06-2004, 12:58 PM
Have Alex host the show :D

-MR

Ziptyed
07-06-2004, 01:02 PM
I agree have Alex host the show. That would be cool.

FD3S_pilot
07-06-2004, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by mranlet
LOL - Craig Lieberman is here?!

-MR

wtf ???!!!!

craiglieberman
07-06-2004, 01:59 PM
I'm always amazed that people are amazed that I ACTUALLY am involved in the tuner scene, not just trying to be "a sell out and make money from it."

If anyone bothers to do any research, they'd see that I'm an active member of dozens of forums, including:
E46Fanatics.com
ImportSpeed-South.com
Houston-Imports.com
I-Clubs.com
6SpeedOnline.com
S2kiForums.com
FreshAlloy.com
M3Forum.net
ScionLife.com
VWVortex.com
MKIV.com
OnlineShowoff.com
NFTunerz.com
SkylineGTR.com
AutomotiveForums.com
MBWorld.org

and many, many more. I ALWAYS post under my own name and I do in fact associate with predominantly younger people, mostly tuners.

I surf, monitor and post on forums often...being "in touch" with members of forums, this one included, gives me REAL insight into the thoughts of the tuner world as a whole.

I'm always glad to receive questions, input and yes, even criticism....which is hard to take seriously considering that more often than not, the person criticisizing has never met me. Oh well, makes them look the jacka$$, IMHO.

Anyway, if you'd like to email me privately, please feel free to do so at clieberman@magnaflow.com

SilviaLove
07-06-2004, 02:24 PM
I've already read on other forums outside the automotive industry that they watched soley because of the hostess, not because of the drifting and cars. They said they could care less about that part. I think that is quote is funny because this show is about drifting and not the hostess. Obviously they are watching the wrong show because although she maybe beautiful most drifters are looking for creditability, not just a pretty face. Anyhow, The show seemed to be geared toward the FnF youths, it happens when your trying to cover anything import related, and I thought this show would deviate from that norm. However, i feel that the show was...Alright...I do hope the show gets better. I think more emphasis needs to be placed on drifting, drifters, and the technical aspects of drifting. Possibly, the shows format should follow a basic racing coverage, with less distractions. I know that doesn't catch the attention of the FnF crowd, but more automotive enthusiast would probably pay more attention if the marketing strategy was more of a product development or diversification than market penetration. I do want coverage about JGTC and drifting to succeed, not fail; I want to see this type of action more national networks, not just the speed channel, there is more than nascar out there. I hope the recent trends in covering the "import scene" does not sink this program.

MrodDrft
07-06-2004, 02:25 PM
my critisism is u shudnt ruin perfect cars like the Blackbird R34 Gt-r

FD3S_pilot
07-06-2004, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by MrodDrft
my critisism is u shudnt ruin perfect cars like the Blackbird R34 Gt-r

^ i agree, the R34 is a known dream car to all, racers and drifters alike. many people I know said that you killed it and even some j-guys said they could do better...i dont if you decide on all the mods on it but you should have stop them from doing it....maybe Redline T.V. should interview tuning shops like Signal Auto or even Top Secret and their D1 drivers...and put Andy Yen and Alex Pfieffer on as the host sometimes...that would be tight.....show some hardcore drift battles and no music just have the sound of the tires...the cool blow-off sound and the crowd cheering like crazy....that would be a REAL GOOD SHOW....and lastly i think everyone knows that drifting doesnt need sex appeal to sell...just my 2 cents here

kaitokid21
07-06-2004, 03:28 PM
the show was off to an ok start but lose the host please! get some ppl who know what they are talking about....drifting has lost a lot of its underground appeal..i like the days when the only way to see drifting was to buy a 20$ option or best motoring vid.
now drifting has gone mainstream and you got 15 year old kids asking "how many cylinders does a treuno have?(wrong spelling)". redline TV is the posterchild for that type of mentality. as for the IAS and all the ppl complaining...if redline had shown the TOKYO auto salon i doubt many ppl would be complaining...i think the tokyo auto salon has a different "flavor" about it even though they also have neon lights etc like the IAS has in some of their cars but it's just a different style, tokyo vs international a.s.

Ziptyed
07-06-2004, 03:54 PM
I don't know about other people but I happen to love Boro drift cars like with shattered headlights big a$$ dents, and no front bumpers. because It shows you that they're out there doing it. I would actually love to have a thrashed S14 than a corvette or a viper. and whats a Blackbird R34 that thing sounds scary.About the redlined show.To Mr. Lieberman: I wish you luck on your show, but I swear to god if this turns into another Nopi tunervision, with *Censored**Censored**Censored* car shows, *Censored**Censored**Censored* lambo doors and stupid wigger suburb *Censored**Censored**Censored*s, I will not be pleased. Please try to get abetter host, better editor, more tech, and no more magnaflow.

kaitokid21
07-06-2004, 04:12 PM
the best thing in that show was the team julius 180SX that the lame excuse for a host was standing next to. i saw that car in hawaii..that thing had porsche brakes..nuts

i got more amp'd watching the JGTC commercial than the program itself :P

MrodDrft
07-06-2004, 04:17 PM
ahha yea the commercial was more exciting that the show.. u shud take some pointers from it, good music (trance-ish), low volume on it.. and the engine sounds cranked up.

prodigy
07-06-2004, 07:13 PM
Well, I missed it and to me it sound like a good thing. I just bought the Hashiriya DVD that was done by Teckademics, I never even heard of it before and it was bad. They did have a chick as a host but she was fully clothed and even wearing a coat and a scarf. I believe she was the host because she could translate very well and speaked fluent english and maybe Japanese but I don't speak it to beable to tell. The only thing that I didn't like about the DVD was the drag racing in it, I don't like straight line racing no matter what car is doing it. It showed both Kazuya Bai and Fumaki Komatsu drifting in an industrial hang out area with other cars. They had a small interview with Chunky and an even longer interview with Drifter X, while he was at work. They showed both of their cars and the drivers themselves said what they had done to their cars and they answered other questions. I though it was a great DVD for 15 bucks. So that is how it should be done, interview some people like Fumaki when he is on the clock at Signal and definately get my boy Alex to host. I talk to him whenever he gets online and that dude is *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*ing funny. He would make a great host. Seeing how the true drifters will be around forever you might want to appeal to them if you want your show to last more than a year. The F and F kids usually switch to a different fas when it comes around. It is like the old crew I used to role with when I was in high school, after high school was over they stopped modding there cars and got into drinking and other stupid *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*. We will always be here, but if we think your show sucked than we probably won't watch it even if it does cover our favorite motorsport and our lifestyle. Lose the chick and get someone "real" to host the show. After this thread I don't even know if I am going to attempt to wake up for the show.

CRASHDRIVE
07-06-2004, 07:19 PM
TO REDLINE TV.

Ill give the 1st episode a 5 out of 10. Since it was just an introduction. Ill be expecting more to come on the next episodes. But then again 1st impression is where it counts.

Also, you guys said that "our backdrop is around the drifting community" But I only saw about 5mins of drifting and another 5mins of show events and then 20mins of commercials. If you guys want to be FDBD (for drifters by drifters) I think you guys need a little bit more drifting.

I do want to add some suggestions for the upcoming episodes.

1st. No offense to Courtney Day (she's freakin hot!) But I suggest getting a more reputable host. I suggest DANICA PATRICK She's a racer, She's already a hostest and she does it well + she's hot! Also, I suggest Boris Said he's down to earth or maybe Rhys M or maybe some guy in the drift community.

2nd. Time slot! Try to buy atleast 1hr worth of time. The 1st episode came with like 20mins of sponsors and commercials and 10mins of actual show. Think about it. 40mins of actual show and 20mins of commercial. Also, if all of the sponsors cannot fit in one show try adding their name in different segments like "This project 240 is brought you by blah, blah, blah" Those are always welcome. Look at Sports Car Revolution in Speed Channel.

3rd. Project car. Try to built a project car. I know what producers says, that it's not worth putting a project car segment in a 30min show because it's not in detail. But I think it's worth every penny. Try cut it down per parts of the car. Like 1 episode will be a suspension upgrade then test it in the track. Show the difference between stock and performance upgrade. (again look at, Project Acura in SPORT COMPACT REVOLUTION and Option Video.) They are real tuners, they test, upgrade then test again.

4th. Battle of the TUNERS. Try to invite all of the tuners in southern california and test their project cars. (im getting this straight from OPTION VIDEO) Let them do lap time or dyno all of their cars.

5th. Community Service. Try to cover local tracks, Show stats of current race (rally, JGTC, scca, solo, etc). Also try to remind all of the watchers that racing in the streets is just plain stupid. Post like the local schedule for tracks. Drift Day events. and where to register.

6th. Local Scene. Drift Days, Fomula D, Car shows, Drag racing events (not the show part of the event, but the actual race of the events).

7th. Interviews. Try to interview reputable racers, a good segment about their accomplishments, how they started, and what their views are in certain events.

8th. FACTS. Add like a 10min segment per show about different facts (example: Touge. How they are dangerous and there are other alternatives. It's the truth but REAL enthusiast will love it).

I think this is just the tip of the iceberg and I think I just covered a whole season of shows.

For the next season, I suggest covering different country and checking the scenes out there.

I hope all of this ideas can be considered. If it all goes well, try to sell the video per episode. Hell if you guys are more informative than the others. I would buy your DVDs and make them as a reference guide.

You guys just got a good amount of free show pitch here. I got more! I hope you guys appreciate it. I got more ideas, try to hit me up at my email address.

FD3S_pilot
07-06-2004, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by kaitokid21
the best thing in that show was the team julius 180SX that the lame excuse for a host was standing next to. i saw that car in hawaii..that thing had porsche brakes..nuts

i got more amp'd watching the JGTC commercial than the program itself :P

yeah that 180sx, i was drooling at that thing the whole time instead of the host lady....180sx was help tune by team "Nightwalkers" and if im correct that's Dx's team(haven't seen him for a long time) but yeah that was tight....as for the black Porsche brakes thats just crazy!!

craiglieberman
07-06-2004, 07:58 PM
To the dude who said "if this turns into Nopi TunerVision", for the love of God, I had absolutely NOTHING to do with that show. Please, for the love of God, take one minute to do some research before you cast stones, bro. Want the man responsible?
Call Mike Meyers at NOPI...404 366 4700 and give him your two cents.

(Before anyone else chimes in, the graphics on TF & TF cars were also NOT my idea...email Keithbrianburns@yahoo.com to *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* about that).

Otherwise, there's some decent input here.

FYI: We considered Alex Pfeiffer as a host, however, outside of our beloved drifting world, no one really knows who he is. At this point, we thought that having a pretty girl who is associated with the tuner world would be better received....after all, she was delivering scripted dialog. We thought she did great....sounds like a few disagreed.

Danica was considered...we thought she was too "branded" with the hot rod crowd.

The challenge witgh picking a host is:

NUMBER ONE: WILL HE/SHE relate to people OUTSIDE the target audience?

Number two: Will people INSIDE the target audience know who she is?

Number three: Can he/she deliver the lines and carry the show?

Number four: Does he/she have an attractive appearance?

Find one that meets all four of those....see? Ain't so easy, is it?

yarzan
07-06-2004, 08:10 PM
my opinion:

1. yes
2. i doubt it (i didnt know)
3. kinda...
4. yep :D

keep in mind, this is my opinion, i wasnt flaming... just opinionating (i made a new word... cool)

nissanguy_24
07-06-2004, 08:13 PM
I think if you guys are making a drifting show you need to understand one thing. Your main audience will be drifters and drift fans. And two.. Hot rodders and show car guys will never like the show, because its about drifting.

You guys need to worry more about what the drifters want to see and focus on your target audience. The problem many shows have is they try to apeal to everyone. I believe drifting is cool enough to stand on its own. Just put drifting out there! and let people see it how it is and i believe they will catch on and enjoy it.. Hell they dont know who Alex Pfeiffer is? who cares they will learn.

Thats one problem with all media types i believe, they worry too much about the lowest common denomenator, instead of the people who will actually watch the show.

Heres an example of something done right... Spider man, both 1 and 2, where both made by sam rami (or however its spelled) Basicly a nerd who loves the story. So he made the best Spiderman story he could, he didnt stop to worry about if the stuck up girl would like it, or the football fan would like it. He knew the story was strong enough on its own to stand on its own.

Imagine how bad it would of been if they changed Peter Parker into an all american football star jock who always gets the girl.

It would of been awful, because thats not good story telling.. Instead they stuck to the real spiderman what made spiderman a success NOT what they thought would improve it, or appeal to people who had never picked up a comic book... And look what happened? Spiderman 1 broke all kinds of records and the sequal has been called even better and is kicking *Censored**Censored**Censored* in the box office!

See what im getting at? Drifting has gotten big because drifting is cool. it didnt need a sexy model to make it popular, it didnt need flashy stuff or other 'improvements' to widen its audience. I believe if you put the real drift scene out there then you will have a successful show on your hand.

And yeah an hour would be awsome.. but lets take it one step at a time...

DaGOATRollaGTS
07-06-2004, 08:14 PM
Craig...dont feel bad man.

Who isnt in buisness for the money. And shame on you all for telling a guy hes a bastard for doing his job. Stop working at burger king and taking your mommies checks to pay for your cars

Unless you actually scrape your knucles for your performance like I do. Your exempt.

Heres the deal. Craig....your a bit behind. Again, dont feel bad. We all have to start somewhere. Unfortunatly you happen to be in a business that delivers information to you regarding enthusiasm. From my understanding (or lack there of) you may happen upon other information. Sadly to say most of this "enthusiasm" is mostly the hottest trend of fad.

Personally I belong to a set of indiveduals that seek out thies subcultures. Lifestyles if you will. And take pride in their culture or heritage.

Thats my understanding.

One thing that would clear the air is for people to learn to seperate your business from your pleasure. You to me seem to be a car guy. One who happens to make money with his hobby. Hell I hope to be there soon myself.

Now, as for feedback on TV programs and there "Coverage". Its just that, coverage. I dont think anyone here or on more focused drift boards think twice about thies shows. They are great cause the report on the american way of life as far as drifting is concerned. Thats great. But remember drifting has been established in japan for over 10 years now. The touge racing has been going on for about half a decade previously. There are military personell here now that lived there back then and brought back the attitude and life with them. There are other people who like road racing and dirty cars that have dents in body work alot more than candy paint and clear hoods that show crome engine components and an airbrushed valve cover.

Is it the first time Drifting was shown on TV in the US. Absolutly not. Are those previous shows the first...in a way...no. How can I say this....as I look at my collection of Option and Best Motoring videos that I know by heart its been on my TV for the last 4 years. I drifted at the first hyperfest, the absolute very first drift practice and competition in the US hands down and undisputed. I was drifting almost a year before that. I was watching videos a year before that.

What I say next is not to spite you, just hopefully enlighten. Your not the first, nore the best. And what is the best is so easy to obtain we as a community can afford to be critical of any efforts put forth by the US. We would much rather see open track time and our own people just going out there without competition going on than to watch a piss poor US D1. As a PERFECT example.

IRON CHEF!!! Hands down the best japanese show ive seen in the US...MAN that show is entertaining. And I dont even cook. I watch it whenever I get a chance. I love it.

Well well well. Us silly americans cant stand to see anyone else do something better so what does the establisment do...make an Iron Chef USA, and use a chef (Bobby Flay) for its inagural show, that was critisized publicly on its japanese counterpart. I waited an entire month to see that US eppisode hopping that MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, someone got the idea. Saddly I was dissapointed. By a great bit actually. So many of the elliments of that show that made its japanese version great were lacking in the US version.

Such is the same for drifting in the US. There are many things drifters love about it. Is it a sport, no. Is it fun hell yeah and thats the way it needs to be kept. Do we want to know other peoples setups and the parts they use, sure, it helps us with our cars, do we like seeing it. Hell yeah, thats why we spend soo much on tapes to be shipped from japan or from our friends accross the country.

Now what gets me is how easily a production is screwed up. I mean HOW CAN YOU GET THIS WRONG with MILLIONS of people on message boards all over the net spewing info on what they like and want?!

Why the hell do you want to spend millions on a series or production for a television program and wiat for a thread like this to show you what you did wrong when you could start a thread asking what to put in and make a huge success?!

Comon.

Two people have done this correctly. Grass Roots Motorsports and WIRED Magazine. Fortunatly for them they knew someone who was one of the drifters they wished to portray or report on. Charels Greaber of WIRED ended up wrighting a VERY well recieved and respected article. David (forgive me for forgetting the last name) also wrote a very well liked initial article on what was such a popular issue they decided to put something about drifting in every issue.

Hell, take a 300 dollar plane trip to an event. Pick up a phone. Talk to the people in the trenches so to speak. I know thats what you think your doing but listen to what they tell you they like and what they stress, what gets them excited, report on that, show more of those things. Look at the models laid out before you in Option and BM. Hell there are vids from 92 that I still get kicks out of watching.

If you need help its there. Just get some. Please.

prodigy
07-06-2004, 08:20 PM
FYI: We considered Alex Pfeiffer as a host, however, outside of our beloved drifting world, no one really knows who he is. At this point, we thought that having a pretty girl who is associated with the tuner world would be better received....after all, she was delivering scripted dialog. We thought she did great....sounds like a few disagreed.

Obviously you thought wrong. If the girl can't even read off of cue cards and make it sound like she knows what she is talking about than dump her. Who cares if no one knows who he is, show him drifting and everysone will learn who he is. He is also funny, he would bring more flavor than some girl that can't change her own brake pads ever could. It sounds like everyone from drifting.com disagreed and not just a few.

WINDING Master
07-06-2004, 09:14 PM
To Redline,

Can you discuss some of your planned features for the upcoming shows so forum members can submit suggestions before the plans are finalized?

my 1 88 u
07-06-2004, 11:12 PM
to CRASHDRIVE and DaGOATRollaGTS, awe man you guys just saved me alot of typing.

prodigy
07-06-2004, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by WINDING Master
To Redline,

Can you discuss some of your planned features for the upcoming shows so forum members can submit suggestions before the plans are finalized?

Yeah, why not? If are say is so important why can't we tell you a head of time what is going to sink or float?

Shin180sx
07-07-2004, 05:25 AM
I agree with the guys that said drifting can stand on it's own.

Craig and anyone at redline, STOP TRYING TO REINVENT THE WHEEL!

We don't need some big chested woman to watch a drifting show, this is one of the most grassroots sports ever. How many models do you see in grassroots magazine, option, battle magazine, or drift tengoku?? I'd also rather see Alex as the host, at least he has contributed to the scene without exploiting it.

zdss14
07-07-2004, 07:29 AM
i saw the first show and it was ok it just outlined the rest, but the girl was hot , but couldn't even talk.(here car was also crap) there wasn't enough stuff eather. also it didn't look professonal, when you look at bm videos they have pro racers talking show you the cars stats and have good camera work, odd angles and negative shots suck they arnt informative, and look like crap(video production at my highschool does that type of stuff every day) also i hate it in mags when the only shot of the front of the car is a 1 by 2 inch shot in the corner, so don't do that show the cars at a stand still with good shots and tell the stats then see it go. if some some big exec says he wont do this stuff, then tell him to read this.

also is the jgtc race going to be on speed channel?

my 1 88 u
07-07-2004, 08:00 AM
Who cared to see the Magnaflow segment? I surely didn't, but if you did please tell us why.

mranlet
07-07-2004, 08:19 AM
Why not just have the girls hanging off of Alex as he hosts the show?
I bet Alex would like that...

I can understand that assembling a show about something new to so many people is a tough thing to do, and I'm not going to tell you guys how to do your job, but at the same time why alienate your target audiance just to entertain some other people?

Regardless of what the subject is, people usually want to hear form an expert. If the host hasn't had a daily driver with a welded differential, stared up at the starry sky from atop a mountian waiting for the first run of the night, or smoked the rears so hardcore that they both blow at once, I really don't care what he/she has to say.

No offense Craig and others, but unless you can claim undisputed roots to the scene, you should probably not be the ones designing a show about it.

-MR

DriftNation8
07-07-2004, 08:30 AM
It's pretty apparent how the majority of us (the grassroots drifting community) felt about the show, but I wonder how the show car/tuner community felt?

It looks like what Redline management have done is market the show towards the show car/tuner crowd in hopes of drawing them into drifting and jgtc. The whole format, the host, video editing style, video effects of the show were undoubtedly reminiscent of a Nopi/Hi-Rev tuners type of show.

Is the grassroots drifting community, or for that matter the hardcore drifting fans still that much of a minority when compared to the show car community?

Was it simply a matter of marketing towards the larger target audience?

mranlet
07-07-2004, 08:42 AM
Angelo's got a good point.

IMO (and I'm sure I speak for others as well) spreading drifiting to a larger audiance will only serve to contaminate the scene...

There are already skilled US drivers that refuse to compete in events like Formula D becuase of the bling factor. EVen in Japan there are drivers that no longer compete in D1 because it's become a shadow of its former self.

Watch those videos from 1992, then watch a Option video from 2004 - look at the difference!

I'm not a "purist" and I don't think that drifting shouldn't progress, but adding a lot of things that have nothing to do with on-the-edge car control and bals-out hardcore driving will not help represent the sport.

Regarding the camera work and effects:
Hundreds, if not thousands, of non-Japanese speaking kids buy Option, Battle, and Drift Tengoku magazines just so they can look at the pictures. The pictures of the cars (and the filming of the casr in the videos for that matter) show details of things like how the camber plates are set, what sort of rollbar setup is in the car, how the turbo piping is run, how the intercooler is mounted in conjunction of the radiator, how the front bumper is attached. All of those things are valuable to see in coverage of any sort. Car guys (most anyway) are technical-oriented people who don't really care what color a car is or what the car looks like when you're standing on your head and are seeing in negative.

My point isn't that the show needs to be like the Japanese shows or magazines, but the coverage needs to be thorough. Even if ther is only time to show 3 cars the whole show, at least show those cars well.

-MR

'97 S14 SE Turb
07-07-2004, 09:34 AM
I believe the issue is with the media industry trying to determine the demographics that's into drifting.

Drifting's demographics is not a narrow spectrum like the FnF crowd. It's much broader than that. You have working professional who doesn't care about the show aspect to highschool kids who just wants to go sideways.

So, stop using the FnF demographics and don't apply it to the drifting crowd...

craiglieberman
07-07-2004, 09:41 AM
Guys, I gotta disagree here.

Something mainstream does NOT contaminate it...it infuses new life into it.

With mainstream media attention comes corporate sponsors; with corporate sponsorships comes the advancement of the sport...and the enrichment of the sports' participants.

Nowhere is this more evident than in the music world....you think Snoop would be happy being a "purist flying under the corporate radar?" Hell no, he takes the corporate money and leads the life he chooses.

Its' happened in pro skateboarding, pro volleyball, surfing, jet skiing, you name it...eventually, the corporations come in.

For those of you who may scream "look what TF&TF did to the tuner world," keep in mind that NONE of the automotive shows on TV would be on right now if the mainstream audiences hadn't walked out of that movie wanting more. Even MTV is finally getting into the game, launching their own series later this year.

Keep in mind that many OE's have now responded to this demand and cars like the Evo and WRX are in direct response to demand generated partly by more mainstream acceptance of trends. People like Drifting.com members pioneer become 'cool' and more importantly, "opinion leaders," and someday you might be fortunate enough to make a living from your passion.

In my opinion, you have two choices:
Deny it, be a "purist" and do what you want on your own dime

Embrace it...get paid well for it, and still do what you want.

There's nothing wrong with being a purist...I'm one too (having owned/built 39 cars, mortgaged up to my eyeballs for cars and having given up my first wife to keep having cool cars I believe makes me a purist), but to resist the infusion of capital into a grassroots sports is exactly what's been keeping SCCA unpopular with America's youth for 30 years.

They FINALLY woke up and accepted drifting...why? With it came sponsorship dollars.

That's today's economics lesson...take it for whatever its' worth.

Ziptyed
07-07-2004, 09:45 AM
Whatever you say there Nero.

noobster
07-07-2004, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by craiglieberman

I was dissappointed that people didn't praise the JGTC coverage or drift coverage more. Thought we showcased something no one has ever showcased before (hell, JGTC has never been on TV in America before) and a profile of Alex explaining what drifting is and the various techniques (we thought) was something never done on TV before.

Haha, Craig, thats just like you to think that you're the first with something. lol. you heard of satellite tv or even cable? you think the first time we've been exposed to jgtc was because of "your" show? lol.

you think we've never seen Alex or other notables explain drifting technique before? haha, thank god Redline is here!!! what would we do without it???!!!

you want to be a first with something? try acquiring a first class production team who can actually create, build, film, and cut a good show for the automotive enthusiast. now, that would be a first! until we see that, we'll come to expect the B and C rated production we've seen so far on shows like HiRev Tuners, Tuner Transformation, and Redline TV.

:)

'97 S14 SE Turb
07-07-2004, 09:48 AM
Ignore the folks that complaine about it getting mainstream and wanting ot keep it underground.

Most of them haven't been into car for more than a couple of years. Heck some fo them here can't even drive...

But, seriously, from a long time car person, don't use a narrow demographics to define the target audience for drifting... You will need segments that cater to people like me, road course folks that got into drifting.

That means more substance, less flash.

Also, would like to challange your claim to be a regular on freshalloy.com. I'm a regular there, and I don't ever see you post. According to another forum member, you only have 4 post on there. So, don't know how that can be counted to be a regular...

CRASHDRIVE
07-07-2004, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by DriftNation8
It's pretty apparent how the majority of us (the grassroots drifting community) felt about the show, but I wonder how the show car/tuner community felt?

It looks like what Redline management have done is market the show towards the show car/tuner crowd in hopes of drawing them into drifting and jgtc. The whole format, the host, video editing style, video effects of the show were undoubtedly reminiscent of a Nopi/Hi-Rev tuners type of show.

Is the grassroots drifting community, or for that matter the hardcore drifting fans still that much of a minority when compared to the show car community?

Was it simply a matter of marketing towards the larger target audience?

Because it shows a mockery of what we believe and worked hard on. If you want to make a show about something you believe. The least you want to do is tell the facts and show how it is. Not how you want the "MAJORITY" to see how "flashy" or how much "crowd pleasing" it is. It's like a preacher telling the listener that Jesus was a gangster with a gun in his hand. Think of the outcome that it will create. Think about the new comers that will start drifting for all of the wrong reasons. All I want to see and hear are real facts and a person that have experience on the particular subject to tell it.

I watched their "promo" video. and they said, that their "backdrop" will be around the "drifting community" I think they need to keep that promise.

Boost Squared
07-07-2004, 10:04 AM
Most of you sound like bitter little pimply faced kids that do not know sh*t. I agree that Alex knows more about drifting than Cortney, but any of you that want to see more of him than of her, should probably have their eyes checked.

yarzan
07-07-2004, 10:06 AM
guys i just had a revalation, redline tv told me that if i start to drift i can be sponsored and Courtney Day will go out with me...:D

mranlet
07-07-2004, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by craiglieberman
Something mainstream does NOT contaminate it...it infuses new life into it.

With mainstream media attention comes corporate sponsors; with corporate sponsorships comes the advancement of the sport...and the enrichment of the sports' participants.
By "life" you must mean money, and by "advancement" you must mean the sponsor's vision for what it should be.


Nowhere is this more evident than in the music world....you think Snoop would be happy being a "purist flying under the corporate radar?" Hell no, he takes the corporate money and leads the life he chooses.
Snoop also has his own label so that he CAN do what he wants.


Its' happened in pro skateboarding, pro volleyball, surfing, jet skiing, you name it...eventually, the corporations come in.
...and these sports have never been more commercial, alienating a large portion of the people involved in the beginning. Making something more commercial doesn't make it better, it changes who is involved. Alternatively, are any of these sports better now that there's bazillions of dollars fueling them?



For those of you who may scream "look what TF&TF did to the tuner world," keep in mind that NONE of the automotive shows on TV would be on right now if the mainstream audiences hadn't walked out of that movie wanting more. Even MTV is finally getting into the game, launching their own series later this year.

Are you saying that Hot Rod TV, Horsepower TV, My Classic Car, Trucks, and many others are byproducts of a blockbuster movie? Again, is the tuning world a better place with shows like Nopi Tuner-vision and Super2ner TV?



Keep in mind that many OE's have now responded to this demand and cars like the Evo and WRX are in direct response to demand generated partly by more mainstream acceptance of trends. People like Drifting.com members pioneer become 'cool' and more importantly, "opinion leaders," and someday you might be fortunate enough to make a living from your passion.
If a car company produces a fast AWD car in a tight little affordable package, it is going to sell. The demand is there whether there has been more emphasis on accepting trends or not. There is nothing trendy (and no I'm not extrapolating the use of "trend" to mean "trendy") about the WRX or EVO anyway - they will be seen as formidable performance machines years from now.


In my opinion, you have two choices:
Deny it, be a "purist" and do what you want on your own dime

Embrace it...get paid well for it, and still do what you want.

As long as what you want is outlined in your contract with the sponsor.


There's nothing wrong with being a purist...I'm one too (having owned/built 39 cars, mortgaged up to my eyeballs for cars and having given up my first wife to keep having cool cars I believe makes me a purist)
It doesn't matter if you've built 5 or 50 cars, and it also does not matter how much money you've put on the line. I'm not trying to offend anyone or calling any names, but being obsessed does not equal being a purist.

...but to resist the infusion of capital into a grassroots sports is exactly what's been keeping SCCA unpopular with America's youth for 30 years.
Who says the SCCA is unpopular with youth? There are thousands of people who love the SCCA and wouldn't race anywhere else. Getting mroe sponsors isn't going to change what people like, it will just ram it down their throats.


They FINALLY woke up and accepted drifting...why? With it came sponsorship dollars.
So it wasn't because a lot of its members wanted to see it in SCCA's regular events...


That's today's economics lesson...take it for whatever its' worth.
Perhaps the same should be done with the drifting world...

------------------------------

Originally posted by Boost Squared I agree that Alex knows more about drifting than Cortney, but any of you that want to see more of him than of her, should probably have their eyes checked.
So just have Alex dub for Cortney and everyone will be happy.

------------------------------

If sponsors get involved that is fine, but they WILL contaminate the scene if they try and invluence it rather than let the sponsored driver tell them what they want and need. Parts cost money, events cost money, TV coverage costs money, but drifting isn't about money and drifting isn't about cramming some ideal disguised in a coating of neon and sparkle paint down soeone's throat. Drifting is one of the last things in this world that isn't controlled by those who have money. Nobody had better EVER try and take that away from us!!!

-MR

nissanguy_24
07-07-2004, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by craiglieberman

Nowhere is this more evident than in the music world....you think Snoop would be happy being a "purist flying under the corporate radar?" Hell no, he takes the corporate money and leads the life he chooses.

Its' happened in pro skateboarding, pro volleyball, surfing, jet skiing, you name it...eventually, the corporations come in.

For those of you who may scream "look what TF&TF did to the tuner world,

"They FINALLY woke up and accepted drifting...why? With it came sponsorship dollars.

That's today's economics lesson...take it for whatever its' worth.


Wow you convenced me.. You convenced me that we need to keep drifting grassroots and out of the hands of corporate sponsors unless we want it to turn into rap, or have it ruined like all those other sports you mentioned..

Honestly rap is crap, end of story. Compare the great music of the 60s, 70s, 80s and even 90s and modern rock. I mean great stuff from the red hot chillipeppers and puddle of mud. These are great songs! not only do i still listen to songs from the beatles! and other things from the 60s, but 30 years from now ill be listening to Hotel california and City of Angeles back to back. Look at rap.. nothing in rap last. Every rap song is basicly a fad, once the novalty wears off its branded "old school" (now an insult) and no longered like. the biggest songs from last month are considered lame to even bring up...

Hell rap sold its soul to the devil along time ago... big companys picked up the next big thring so suposively.. throw loads of random money at it. What was the result?

Go ahead do that to drifting if you want. It wont effect me and my fellow drifters. But it will effect the pros out there, it will effect YOU and it will effect everyone making money off it. Oh and why your at it, why not attach a gangster hardcore image to drifting, like the media did to the show car guys.. because thats what i need, to be pulled over and treated like crap because im driving a stock looking 240. Im proud to be a drifter.. i dont want to be ashamed of it. OR have my grandparents gasp because the local news told them drifters = gansters.

You've taken the first step already, you came here to talk to us. Now please heed our words and warnings, trust us, we want kick *Censored**Censored**Censored* drifting on tv as much as the next guy.. but seeing two cars sliding side by side at 50 miles an hour inches from each other, then flipping and turning the other direction in a perfect ballet, on there last lap, the winner of the whole event to be desided by this one run....

well that doesnt need negative image or funny camera angles or even hip hop type music to make it exciting does it? 10 thousand where on there feet during the last matches at the d1.. they all only had 1 camera angle.. and no music except for the engines and tires.... and they loved every minute of it.

Ziptyed
07-07-2004, 11:17 AM
I stand by Mr. Anlet. because If you look at surfing when It was all about communing with the ocean and doing it for the love, it was great, but know there's people who just strap a board to their roof and drive around trying to act cool because they were influenced by big money sponsors telling them if they surf that they will be cool, while surfing is not about that at all. I feel the same will happen to drifting if people like Mr. Lieberman get their grubby money hungry hands on it. Did anyone understand Mr. Lieberman's association with Nero. I feel that if this man takes over it would be the down fall of our beloved drifting. Some may say I don't know anything because I jumped on the bandwagon my self. I tell you that is not me. I have loved cars since before I can remember. I remember my mother saying as an infant that I used to roll toy cars in front of me watching the wheels turn for hours. I just would not like to see drifting turned into what surfing is today, but rather only done by people who truly love it.

-E.K-

nissanguy_24
07-07-2004, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by Ziptyed
I stand by Mr. Anlet. because If you look at surfing when It was all about communing with the ocean and doing it for the love, it was great, but know there's people who just strap a board to their roof and drive around trying to act cool because they were influenced by big money sponsors telling them if they surf that they will be cool, while surfing is not about that at all. I feel the same will happen to drifting if people like Mr. Lieberman get their grubby money hungry hands on it. Did anyone understand Mr. Lieberman's association with Nero. I feel that if this man takes over it would be the down fall of our beloved drifting. Some may say I don't know anything because I jumped on the bandwagon my self. I tell you that is not me. I have loved cars since before I can remember. I remember my mother saying as an infant that I used to roll toy cars in front of me watching the wheels turn for hours. I just would not like to see drifting turned into what surfing is today, but rather only done by people who truly love it.

-E.K-


I to was one of the youths who loved cars. but sortof forgotten that love until i was much older when i rediscovered it. I was but a nerdy highschooler who thought cars werent for him, cars were for a certain group of people... i bought into a sterotype that you had to be a certain way to like cars. About the age of 17 a buddy took me to some car shows and a drag race, and i opened my eyes... but it wasnt until i discovered the S13 and Drifting about 3 years ago that i really fell head over hills for something.. first time i truely felt welcomed by a comunity.. So i guess im kindof protective of drifting and of the cars i love so much.

We will always drive.. thats what makes us drifters a love of the wheel and pedal, if this show is awesome or sucks, it wont mater we will drive. But we care because we want to see the thing we love reflected properly... Its like if someone did a biography on your beloved wife or something you would want to make sure that biography was perfect and people saw this wonderful woman the way you did.

To so many of us, this is about more then money.. its so personal and emotional. Thats why you see so many strong emotions on this thread. For better or worse thats what drifters are...

That is what binds us.. Unlike other groups we are very different people. We arent all ganster or minoritys from the ghettos, or rich white kids.. no we're everything.. Drifters are Nerds, there jocks, there rich guys, and poor guys, there amatures and professionals, there dreamers and realist, they're republicans and democrats and indipendents too, they're service men, and pacifist they like oatmeal rasin and chocolate chips. They're blacks and whites and asians and hyspanics. We are the minority, but we are composed of the majority and minority groups alike. We are Anime fans, and Anime haters, We watch sci fi and documentrys, and action and adventure movies. We read comic books and novels, we watch tv and listen to CDs. we listen to rock and country rap and R and B, modern music, older music. We Pirate and Pay. We Are imported car fans and domestic car fans!!! most drifters love all cars! We run V8s and Inline 4s Turbos and Superchargers and NA and Nitrous too. We can apreciate a good body kit, but dont think its nessisary.

We arent any one group... the only thing that unites us is a love of drifting and cars! If your show is focusing on anything besides performance of the cars, and the drifting then its off focus.. Go watch some of the old school muscle shows, hotrod tv and horse power tv those things.. yeah the jokes are corny the host are goofy, and there too obsessed with chrome.. but the shows give you information and numbers, they show the car the way WE want our cars shown to us. Take a lesson from them! it will be worth while.. and you know what, you show drifting like that and you will see it expand into bigger markets, because the old shcool guys will take it seriously. Negative images and strop effects wont do that.

Sorry for the rant.. i hope it helps though..

- Nissanguy

spock
07-07-2004, 11:36 AM
I honestly don't want to make anyone look bad. But you're just confirming everything I've said earlier with your comments about sponsorships and big corporations getting involved. The last thing I want to see drifting on MTV. Surely, once Viacom gets their hands on drifting it will be ruined. (Oh, wait. Spike TV's owned by Viacom, isn't it?) But seriously, if I ever see Ronald McDonald doing a tandem run with Taniguchi I'm gonna shoot myself if the face. Well maybe not something that drastic, but it'll still make me very angry. And don't bother trying to defend the Fast and Furious. We all know very well how they ruined the image of this industry. It's really distgusts how imports in America have that "gangsta" appeal. I hate those ads in American magazines with some guy standing next to his car acting like he's tough sh*t. And, please, don't make this show try to appeal to the Fast and Furious gangsta type crowd. It will only put drifting in a negative light.

kaitokid21
07-07-2004, 12:04 PM
just a quick question, some ppl were complaining about them (redline) showing coverage of IAS was it? but how many ppl would have complained it they had shown the TOKYO auto salon car show?

i know i wouldn't be whining....

mranlet
07-07-2004, 12:32 PM
Thanks for the support Ziptyed, and +1 to Nissanguy.

Kaito - whether it be IAS or TAS isn't really the point. Yeah, the TAS is the real deal, but either way it's more the presentation that people were pissed about.

Nero played the fiddle while Rome burned, so the story goes... Hopefully that does not apply to Mr. Lieberman and drifting.

Like him or dislike him, I very much respect Craig. As a single man, he holds probably the greatest influence on how the public will see drifting in the future. I don't nescessarily think that he has the reverse-Midas touch and I understand that he has to make a lot of people happy at the same time.

I DO feel very strongly about that which I love, as I'm sure he does too - similar to how Mr. Hale (Nissanguy) had put it, you wouldn't want to have some paint a portrait of your mother and then add a blue sparkle wig and Elvis glasses. You'd want her to be depicted as she is.

I don't want people to be drawn to drifting for something that drifting ISN'T. I want people to be drawn to drifting for what it is, plain and simple. Ultimately, those are the people who will be in it for the long haul.

Mr. Lieberman - I'm sure that you get a lof of flak from a lot of people about things you've done in the past and that's really unfortunate. A lot of people here are simply frustrated and they don't know who else to hold responsible but you - if you listen to us and give the drifitng world what it wants then you could easily be the hero, but don't let us down or poor spock will shoot himself in the face. ;)

Thanks for coming down and reading this stuff - it means a lot to me and I think (even they won't say it) it means a lot to other people as well.

-MR

Weapon X
07-07-2004, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by craiglieberman
Guys, I gotta disagree here.

Something mainstream does NOT contaminate it...it infuses new life into it.

With mainstream media attention comes corporate sponsors; with corporate sponsorships comes the advancement of the sport...and the enrichment of the sports' participants.

Nowhere is this more evident than in the music world....you think Snoop would be happy being a "purist flying under the corporate radar?" Hell no, he takes the corporate money and leads the life he chooses.

Its' happened in pro skateboarding, pro volleyball, surfing, jet skiing, you name it...eventually, the corporations come in.

For those of you who may scream "look what TF&TF did to the tuner world," keep in mind that NONE of the automotive shows on TV would be on right now if the mainstream audiences hadn't walked out of that movie wanting more. Even MTV is finally getting into the game, launching their own series later this year.

Keep in mind that many OE's have now responded to this demand and cars like the Evo and WRX are in direct response to demand generated partly by more mainstream acceptance of trends. People like Drifting.com members pioneer become 'cool' and more importantly, "opinion leaders," and someday you might be fortunate enough to make a living from your passion.

In my opinion, you have two choices:
Deny it, be a "purist" and do what you want on your own dime

Embrace it...get paid well for it, and still do what you want.

There's nothing wrong with being a purist...I'm one too (having owned/built 39 cars, mortgaged up to my eyeballs for cars and having given up my first wife to keep having cool cars I believe makes me a purist), but to resist the infusion of capital into a grassroots sports is exactly what's been keeping SCCA unpopular with America's youth for 30 years.

They FINALLY woke up and accepted drifting...why? With it came sponsorship dollars.

That's today's economics lesson...take it for whatever its' worth.

It's called preserving something's integrity. If you're going to use that bull$hit analogy with Snoop dogg, look how bad his music is once he took all that corporate money. None of his records will EVER come close to Doggystyle.

The same goes with most artists, record companies get this idea in their head about what the kids want, and it all comes out sounding the same. All that consulting and marketing research is good for is turning things into crap if you dont listen to what the real fans have to say.

Drifting going mainstream is a double edged sword, and until recently I wasnt that against it. The Fast and The Furious sure infused new life into drag racing....it f@#$ing destroyed it. I get harassed by the cops for driving a red, lowered import even when I'm doing nothing wrong. My industrial drift spots are getting rolled because of drag racers, you cant even hang out at meets and check peoples cars out without getting hassled down here. Not to mention that thug life attitude that goes with most of these idiots. Anyway, you need to have a balance between the commercialism and the integrity of the sport or else it will turn to $hit. If that's your aim, I'm not going to sit by idly and let you do that so you can make more money out of it.

BTW, if I ever see a Pepsi Blue drift car, I'm going to cut open my belly.

kaitokid21
07-07-2004, 12:48 PM
they don't make pepsi blue anymore :D

Weapon X
07-07-2004, 12:57 PM
Oh well...they had that dumb evo.

CRASHDRIVE
07-07-2004, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by Weapon X
I get harassed by the cops for driving a red, lowered import even when I'm doing nothing wrong. My industrial drift spots are getting rolled because of drag racers, you cant even hang out at meets and check peoples cars out without getting hassled down here. Not to mention that thug life attitude that goes with most of these idiots.

This is what needs to change. Right now. all street modified cars are harassed. Why? media attention. If drag racers were portraint as some thugs with no regards to the law what do you think will happen? Deaths, caused by what? kids mimicking what they saw in television or movies. If there was a movie that shows the drama, the agony, and anguish that you have to indure just to make it in the track, what kind of perspective do you think the "GENERAL PUBLIC" will have on street race spec cars?

96AudiBoi
07-07-2004, 01:15 PM
Wow, I have never seen such an abundance of ignorant selfish little acne covered brats posting in all my life! Ha, you really think any production team is going to take these opinions seriously? Come on now? There are a few mature people on here with helpful posts, which I am sure Redline will respect their standpoint, but the majority of "wannabe drifters" are just kids with mom's old corrolla who think they are god's gift to the drifting world.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess 25% of you aren't even old enough to drive, while 80% of you aren't even old enough to legally drink. Your close minded postings and lack of grammar and punctuation are only backing up this argument.

Sure, I'm the newbie, so flame me, delete me, whatever. I only found out about this thread from a Euro forum. It took me like 30 min to read all this, but I had to sign up and post. But as long as SOMEBODY says something it's ok.

First off, why such hostility and negativity? I thought the show was pretty damn good, and I can vouch for atleast 4 other website forums that agreed. They liked the host. I REALLY liked her, lol, and would much rather look at her hosting any day over some toothless Japanese Drifter.
Are you guys forgetting she's probably reading off a script? The same thing as your boy Alex or any other "knowledgeable" drifter would be doing? Newsflash, it's the SAME content. He would be reading the exact same thing as Courtney Day did. Would he not know what he's talking about still?

Secondly, how can any of you disrespect Mr Craig Leiberman? I'm embarrassed to see the comments made on him. He's a pioneer for the automotive world and just because you little shits are too selfish to share "your sport" , doesn't give you any reason to bash him on things you know nothing about. He's one reason this thread topic is even in existence.
Who cares if there wasn't as much drifting as you wanted. There will be MORE episodes. A show with variety is good. Oh and sorry, but Drifting DOES need sex appeal. All sports could use it. I sat in a room with 10 of my guy friends, half of which aren't into the auto scene at all, and only cared about the host and the commercials. Please realize the world isn't made up soley of die hard Drifters and Redline is targeting more than just you.

We should be excited about this. If there is something that you feel needs work, take after the few board members on here and be civil about a suggestion.

Grow up, open your mind and learn to like the show or change the channel. It's as easy as that. There will be millions more in your place.
:)

spock
07-07-2004, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by CRASHDRIVE
If there was a movie that shows the drama, the agony, and anguish that you have to indure just to make it in the track, what kind of perspective do you think the "GENERAL PUBLIC" will have on street race spec cars?
I wouldn't go as far as to say all that. They just need to portray it realisitically. All these people who makes these shows and movies neglect the fact that more times than not it's average Joes that are the ones out there doing this stuff and not some guy dressed up in Sean John and can hadly speak Ebonics, much less normal English.

svtxchinoy
07-07-2004, 01:21 PM
Everyones post here makes total sense. Fast n Furious really ripped the industry a new one. Now we have drifting on the cutting board next. The only thing that can stop it from going truly down the sewer hole is that people will find that drifting has nothing to do with bling and how much money you spend, its the time people spend perfecting their skills. For the average ricer, I don't think their willing to spend the time to do it. They've already tried to start commercializing it with so called "Drift cars" and "drift parts" but that doesn't do any good without the driver knowing how to use them. Its a shame that people who drive imports now are being harrassed because of the media hype. I remember when the import scene was all about the cars and having fun without having to worry about a fight breaking out or some drugs being passed around. Now its all about the thug-life and there that went. Sorry about the rant, its just sad what happens when things go wrong like this.

snowblind
07-07-2004, 01:23 PM
drifting will become popular, in the way only america can lift up and totaly abuse and pervert a trend. Its everybody's fault, the corporations for sellling it to us, and us for buying it. If craig doesnt doesnt have anything to do with drifting, someone else will. Not to put down mr. L or say he would pervert the sport, im saying that if he doesnt have a part in drifting becoming mainstream somebody else will. so no offense if that sounded bad ok? It's starting to pick up speed, in alot of peoples opinions it already dead or dying. So since that is inevitable I will say what I said before, when it goes big, I hope the original drifters and the people who really love it benefit.

Weapon X
07-07-2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Ziptyed
Wow, I'm not even going dignify to Audi Boy's post with a response. Just this.

I second that, no one delete this post.

nissanguy_24
07-07-2004, 01:32 PM
I shall...

You said abunch of your friends watched it because of the model, thus WE need sex appeal in it.... Why? so your friends who dont like drifitng will watch a show based on it? then what? rush out and buy drift spec suspension components for there SUVs and pickups or something?

A show about drifting needs to market to drifters or else it has no audience.

PhoPower
07-07-2004, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Weapon X
I second that, no one delete this post.

is there a third? well if there is i third it

PhoPower
07-07-2004, 01:34 PM
wow this is so contraversial i like it haha

kaitokid21
07-07-2004, 01:36 PM
OK OK lets make a list on how redline can improve its appeal:
1.) get rid of the host and get someone who knows what they are talking about
2.) if redline is going to go to these import events like ias i want to see some of the new performance parts that will becoming out on the market...not some neon glow, chromed out thing
3.) tuner battles like in BM etc... started out on the right track w/ that lan evo thing but i want to see some stats (skid pad, road course times etc)
4.) if you are going to cover jgtc then i want so REAL coverage, granted its a half hour show so i'd like to see atleast a 7-10 summary of each race maybe?

kaitokid21
07-07-2004, 01:37 PM
OK OK lets make a list on how redline can improve its appeal:
1.) get rid of the host and get someone who knows what they are talking about
2.) if redline is going to go to these import events like ias i want to see some of the new performance parts that will becoming out on the market...not some neon glow, chromed out thing
3.) tuner battles like in BM etc... started out on the right track w/ that lan evo thing but i want to see some stats (skid pad, road course times etc)
4.) if you are going to cover jgtc then i want so REAL coverage, granted its a half hour show so i'd like to see atleast a 7-10 summary of each race maybe?

feel free to start adding..lets

96AudiBoi
07-07-2004, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by P1STON2ROTARY
Man your not a drifter, your the sheep thats getting owned by tv. Your the one that argues about its appeal, your the kind of person these guys make there riches off of. You dont care about information? Would u rather see a toothless japansese drifter, that has useful information, or here some broad try to wing it the whole time? Shouldn't people know what there talking about? No, people would rather see some broad wingit. You represent the clueless america.

PLEASE GO BACK AND RE-READ MY POST SLOWLY AND CLEARLY.

What part didn't you guys understand where I stated your knowledgeable drifter would be reading the EXACT same crap as any pretty hostess would. That has nothing to do with someone "winging" it. If it's the content you don't like hearing, than maybe you should suggest the writers of the script be drifters, but wasn't your boy Alex the drifter on the show?

Weapon X
07-07-2004, 01:40 PM
Hey now, dont turn this into some argument between you and others when you jumped into this thread (and this forum) trying to instigate. Resign yourself back to you euro trash forums and let this thread takes its course without you deviating the attention to yourself. I'm not going to watch this thread get locked when so many people have made valid points.

P1STON2ROTARY
07-07-2004, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by 96AudiBoi
PLEASE GO BACK AND RE-READ MY POST SLOWLY AND CLEARLY.

What part didn't you guys understand where I stated your knowledgeable drifter would be reading the EXACT same crap as any pretty hostess would. That has nothing to do with someone "winging" it. If it's the content you don't like hearing, than maybe you should suggest the writers of the script be drifters, but wasn't your boy Alex the drifter on the show?

The drifter, comprehends the subject, the chick apparantly is clueless judging on what was viewed in the tv show. Now go back and re think, what i just wrote. Comprehension with cue cards, vs clueless with cue cards. If their going to discuss any technical or any informative subject, they should understand what they are saying off of the cue cards sweet heart. The difference is apparent..naratively speaking, the show would flow together smoother.

spock
07-07-2004, 01:44 PM
Yes. Please don't let this thread be locked. If someone posts something that's really gonna screw everything up just delete it. I would really like to see where this will go and maybe come to some sort of resolve.

PhoPower
07-07-2004, 02:19 PM
Redline TV is mostly clips of footage from every where that we have seen before one time or another only part that seemed that they did them selves was the track event they held with the EVO and the WRX. You guys should try and do more of your own footage, and have your own drift competitions.

CRASHDRIVE
07-07-2004, 02:19 PM
FROM:96AudiBoi
Are you guys forgetting she's probably reading off a script? The same thing as your boy Alex or any other "knowledgeable" drifter would be doing? Newsflash, it's the SAME content.

So your saying the guys from Popular Hot Rodding, Horsepower TV, TOP DEAD center, TWO GUYS garage or that guy from TRUCKS are some posers? They dont know what they are talking about? Im pretty sure they read off a script. but dont you think they put their 2cents into that script? and they're actually applying REAL knowledge to their show? or VS. a model that's agreeing to the producers on what to say and do?

svtxchinoy
07-07-2004, 02:23 PM
Yes, I want to see how this thread goes too. By the way, if every show needed sex appeal, wonder why Speed Channel's shows rarely ever need it? Why?? Because they know if we want to watch girls, theres always the playboy channel or every other show on tv these days (which is not a bad thing). But, when I want to watch a show about cars, I want to see a show with some substance. I don't need the Street Fury Chrome type S*it on every show relating to imports or drifting. Sports Car Revolution and Dream Car garage are two great examples of how to do a show. Put guys in there that know and love cars. Even some cheesy comedy like they do would help.

nissanguy_24
07-07-2004, 03:27 PM
Also Trucks is very very well done.. That guy is very friendly seems to know his stuff and comes off very naturally. Im not even a truck fan but they present stuff so well and for what it is that i enjoy it alot.

pita bread
07-07-2004, 03:53 PM
This thread should be used to submit feedback and discuss improvements for the show.

Start a new thread if you stray from this topic.

suberi_RPS13
07-07-2004, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by MrodDrft
If redline got a better host

Why do they always pick some chick/model that has to read cue cards to host all the tuner shows?..it's stupid. My girlfriend even makes fun of them. I rather see some ungly girl or a guy that knows what they are talking about, then some chick who probably thinks a SR20det is something you file on your taxs. I probably am really behind on this post or pissing someone off so i'll shut up now.

DaGOATRollaGTS
07-07-2004, 05:09 PM
Wow, this is where I have to put the foot down, im a nice guy but here im going to tell you about yourself Craig.

You do your job well sir and I think your paid what you should be getting. However you have indeed missed the point.

Snoop as an example? What lable did he sell under? One friendly to HIS vision and that promoted his image AS IT WAS. Picked up outside target audiance....ever seen Gang Bangin in Little Rock....im sayin yeah, it worked.

I cant remember what else did you let slip...Oh yeah, had to check the post over again. And man are you way off.

You told us crappy coverage of our beloved motorsports is why the evo and STi are here....that sir is the biggest load of cow poop ive ever read. As a matter of fact I actually looked above your post for the cow icon taking a dump. Do you have one of those? Just click it and your post is generated from previous ones thrown all together?

In fact the reason the WRX (not STi, the WRX that was introduced first) WAS introduced was because of all the attention it got at a US auto show. The hoopla was so great the company decided to try it in the US with expected sales of 5000 units. Do you understand? 5000 units. DO you know how few that is for a new model vehicle. Subaru really didnt think the vehicle would sell. Wana tell me how many they did sell?

15000 orders were filled Craig. 15K. THREE TIMES expected buisness was done, other markets in the world suffered to bring that car here. Mutch like the EVO upon arrival, you couldnt test drive a WRX wouthout a 5K dollar deposit on one that was non reffundable it was so hot.

Why is the automotive industry booming with japanese super vehicles now? Why is Pontiac having to step up its game to catch up? Why is there a turbo Neon? Why is Chevy putting the finnishing toutches on a supercharged cavalier? Side note: my boy had a quad 4 cavalier that rapped 5.0 and cobra mustangs all day long. Heres why...

ME, THE GUY THAT POSTED BEFORE ME, THE ONE THAT WILL POST AFTER ME.

WE are the steering wheel cowboys that ride the frontier of the automotive industry laying down the law as we see fit. Plaine and simple. If we dont buy there is no market. Hell, if we would buy we will find a way to get it, mutch like motorex and a few other registered importeres and comercial import carriers.

I spend hours upon hours turning a wrench putting my car together and making sure everythings perfect so that I can drive a 12:1 compression (actually more now that the HKS headgasket is on) Corolla GTS. To date no one else in my city even has one. And you expect me to listen to a set of hooters and an onion? Might as well ask me to cause thats all that chick has for brains. Ive heard the delivery, its obviously read.

Ive said it before and I will say it again....all you have to do to be successfully is...


LISTEN.

Dont sit there and tell us that underground isnt popular. Its just not popular to you and the powers that be because you dont know about it yet. Just like drifting, it was far more popular then than it is now because of corporate endevors. Will it get commercialized, yes, this discussion has been held on many a message board years before drifting.com even existed.

Velocity.isfaster.com
FA
Club4AG.com
DGTrials.com (didnt exist before but...actually it did just not years before)
AOL Import Racing chat rooms
The local street races.
And a back country road or two.

All places ive been in the mix on, not many but hey, thats how it is when you have a core group of people doing something cool that no one knows about.

Then comes a new kid asking if he can play...or in your case not even asking.

You know what you look like to thies guys? Remember the movie Tourque when the razor head harley drivin guy stops in a rest area and this yuppy pulls up on his new "chopper" with his girl on the back and asks the chain wearing guy to take a picture?

By the way Jamie Presly is the hottest thing on earth in that film.

Yeah, your that guy. Sure he could ride, and he had a nice bike, but he was such a choad.

Dont be that guy. Sit back, observe. Test the waters and learn. Then go and do your own thing and it will be well respected.

craiglieberman
07-07-2004, 05:28 PM
I really, really appreciate the passion expressed....believe it or not, I love cars and drifting as much as all of you.

Its' very hard to be all things to all people and its' clear that we need to focus on being the right things to the hardcore people, then everything else will follow.

Believe me when I tell you that the entire production team is monitoring this thread and somewhat to our dismay, the argument is still divided: some like what we're doing, some don't, most agree that some more focus on hardcore drifting, capturing the sounds of the cars and focusing on the celebs within the drifting world is important...we're undertaking to do that.

There will still be features on cars at the track, like we did with the Sparco Evo 8 and please remember that the show will still encompass other components of the tuner world, but with almost no car show coverage.

Some of your suggestions are helpful, but candidly, if you read all of these posts, you can see where's there's conflict even within the membership of this board. You see our challenge now?


I respect and admire the passion you've all displayed...I hope we're able to glean some useful ideas for shaping this show into something you can all relate to. Hopefully, you all agree we're doing it better than shows before us.

spock
07-07-2004, 05:35 PM
A good host would be someone like this:
http://www.z28evans.com/images/derrick%20trophy.jpg
Seriously.

yarzan
07-07-2004, 05:36 PM
the only guy i can remember that really dissagread with the rest of us was that noob audi guy... he was instantly shot down, corrected, and put back in his place.

WINDING Master
07-07-2004, 05:36 PM
Craig,

Can you discuss the agenda for the next show?

mranlet
07-07-2004, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by spock
A good host would be someone like this:
http://www.z28evans.com/images/derrick%20trophy.jpg
Seriously.

+1, have Evans and Courtney as co-hosts ;)

As members of the drifting community I think that we're trying to, in a sense, "moderate" what gets shown to any schmoe who flips to the right channel. Only on a board like this one can that be done (this comment made with all respect to the admins and mods on this board).

I never thought I'd say this, but:
Craig - you're our man - only you can help us make it happen.

-MR

my 1 88 u
07-07-2004, 07:57 PM
We are cool. we are car geeks that strive for better understanding and control over our cars and that is why there are like a 1,000 newbies a day that want to learn and be like us. In the previews for the show they stated they were for us and by us, not for us and everyother potential target audiances. I feel so cheated, like no freeking show on american tv will ever get it right!!!! sell the show to us how we want it and see how fast people will adapt and change to our life style. the format was already set in japan years ago. you want to make some serious money just watch option videos and apply it to us.

I dont want drifting to become like monster trucks were like a few hundred people in this country participate while thousands just spectate and dream. I want it to become a way of life were every damn car with a fart can is actually a well tuned machine that every weekend attends road courses and/or short track drift session (for an affordable price) to gain better control behind the wheel and have fun.

DaGOATRollaGTS
07-07-2004, 09:20 PM
Sounds like people are repeating what I say, you guys read your own threads yeah?

Craig you mention some self contradictions. Can you be more specific so as to discuss them?

For the most part I think its obvious that if there were a show they would be all about it would be by drifters for drifters. As cheezy as that sounds.

Dont get us wrong, we want alot of show coverage and movies. We just want them done correctly. With the attention to detail a true car guy would put into his own car.

snowblind
07-07-2004, 09:23 PM
I dont think that a show that was exactly the way we wanted it would be succesfull(sp?), pretty much we want option videos in english (or subed), am I right?

as for craig, no matter what is on the show people will be divided on it. But more drifting, less effects = better. too much drifting? do a tech section in alex's shop. (If you do that I want credit ::shakes fist:: j/k)

Boost Squared
07-07-2004, 10:02 PM
When you talk about Courtney Day the host of Redline it seems to me you have forgottten she is real and may read the hateful things you are saying on this forum, and actually belive for a moment that one of you Jhonson heads might even have an inkling about what comes out of your mouth. But we know that's
impossible.

I have followed her career and know she loves cars, is going to take drifting lessons and is obviously not afraid to go TV and host a show that you guys should be happy to have on at all.

[EDITED POST]

SilviaLove
07-08-2004, 12:16 AM
Let me show you a simple equation and maybe it would become more evident, Courtney + Drifting = ?. Another play off the current "excitement' of the import world, great....This show seemed like it would break the trend of current or past shows mistakes when presenting an import related subject matter. Sure, a pretty face does generate interest, but from what i remember RedlineTv is suppose to "use drifting as a backdrop" then why not use someone that can related to the subject material and subculture (of drifting). I think many people have problems differentiating groups within "tuner" scene, as i have heard it called formally, where they clump the people into anything import into one large group "who think itís cool to spend 50 grand hopping up a Honda Civic thatóeven when modifiedócanít outrun a Corvette" (Car and Driver). In general a drifter does not fit it to that stereotype because we are into driving our cars now matter how they look and wouldn't mind if we couldn't out run a corvette. I understand that drifting has been tacked under (or with) with shows and "bling", but when it comes down to it, drifting is about the love of driving. If the drifting is the subject matter then keep that focus. So, with no disrespect to Miss Day, she maybe beautiful but does that really matter when the presentations is without substance?

EightSevenZero
07-08-2004, 03:33 AM
i want to see in car coverage of the pros.

i've been wondering how alex specifically drives.

especially taka and hiro.

and if you need help on content... maybe ask moto-san from club4ag. he's like the guy who started the whole thing in the states at least officially with his drift days. hopefully hes not too busy and i'm not enburdening him. =D

CourtneyDayFan
07-08-2004, 06:03 AM
Originally posted by Boost Squared
When you talk about Courtney Day the host of Redline it seems to me you have forgottten she is real and may read the hateful things you are saying on this forum, and actually belive for a moment that one of you Jhonson heads might even have an inkling about what comes out of your mouth. But we know that's
impossible.

I have followed her career and know she loves cars, is going to take drifting lessons and is obviously not afraid to go TV and host a show that you guys should be happy to have on at all.

[EDITED POST]

Thanks for the support Boost!

She reads all of this. We share the same email and since I subscribed to this thread, she sees all these posts coming to our mail. There are a few ridiculous comments, but like anyone cares what a 16 yr old who's never even been to a drifting event has to say. As for the others, No biggie, she can use the criticism to help her for shooting future episodes like today. Problem being is she doesn't receive the script until the night before shooting. Today's script will probably be given 30 min before. Hopefully she'll actually have time to look it over longer for future episodes.

DaGOATRollaGTS
07-08-2004, 07:24 AM
[EDITED-first sentence]

BIG props to Motohid Miwa for his efforts and sucess with Club4AGs popularity as well as Drift Association. I hope he continues to do it well. However know that he did not start drifting in the US, nore did Chriss Cobetto even though he is also doing a great job with Mike Deford in presenting a place for us to get our driving in. Sorry for bringing your name up again guys, this time its just to make a point.

IM sick and tired of people saying they did this and they did that when there talking about a national "trend". And no one person made it mainstream either.

What made (and continues to make) drifting so popular is its own traits. For the same reason race fans go to see whatever series they love. Smoke, noize, look of the cars, drivers and other spectators.

People have been drifting in the US for a while now guys and it surprizes me that a site thats supposedly dedicated to it, number one is full of people who may indeed do it but has absolutly no clue about where there chosen hobby has come from and secondly is supported by persons who know even less about it then the hobbiest that habbitate here.

If drifting is to come from someone its all the guys who have been building cars and doing it for the last 5 years in this country. The folks that would head out at 2 AM to practice in small groups on there favorate roads or industrial parks or parking lots with there boys, or girls.

Ive talked to Alex a very long time ago on a very off and on bassis, and no I dont know the guy, however I know of him and the type of people he hangs with. They are the real deal! Nadine and her efforts, thats whats up!

If that is not what networks are looking for then they are not looking for drifting. Hands down. Cause those are the types of people I wish to drive with, those are the persons with skills sets I wish to posses. Those are the indeviduals I would hang with and at one point did share the same social venue/message boards.

As for Ms Day. God bless you for liking cars. Many a guy searches long and hard for a woman like you. Wana learn to drift, that makes you a million times better. Much like Craig no one can blame you for doing your job.

It does seem however that people are missing the point. This thread is specifically about feedback on the show, and it was asked for. Your specifically asking people to tell you whats good AS WELL AS whats wrong with your show. Dont get your panties in a bunch when you start hearing it.

Put Day in a sweatshirt and some baggy jeans with a few greas spots and some mechanics gloves. Hair in a pony tail. Let her get some seat time, start the show off with her getting assed out in an 86 or S13 or FC who cares, let her pull up to a camera and get out to start the show. If the womans got the skills bring her on.

However dont get angry when you ask us what we would like and we tell you that not only what you have given isnt what we want and that in fact its possibly the worst thing you could have given us.

And now I get really indignant. Well not really. I actually started to post a really mean reply here but backspaced for about a full minute.

You kids gotta settle down. Dont get tied into one website like drifting.com or a handfull of other sites with videos and pictures and throw them up on your wall paper. Do some resarch. I have a favorates folder with literally 50 diffirent automotive websites dedicated to drifting or road racing style performance. In all honesty not saying that there is something wrong with this particular site however Drifting.com is not one of those on my list. Im only posting here because someone from my regular haunt, www.DGTrails.com, posted about the thread and I thought I would check it out.

Learn a few things. To be honest I think thats what everyone here needs to do. It would be better for everyone involved if they just learned a few things, the history of drifting, who the well respected parties are, whats considered nice and whats not, whats the scope of its participants, how "passionate" are they (good word choice there Craig)? Know something about what your trying to show. You cant put a package together and tell me its my favorate thing. To illustrate...I go off on thies tangents every now and again as you can tell by now.

I LOVE KEY LIME PIE!!!

I really do. With a nice tangy rasberry sauce its one of the best things ever. Damn near orgazmic. The best I have ever tasted has been from southern Florida where the limes grow the best, actually in the Keys is where they are best grown, thus the name "KEY" Lime Pie. Well. Ive been many a place all over this country and every time I eat a great meal if they have key lime pie I order it. Its absolutly my favorate. Now I have never tasted anything as vile as something called key lime pie, outside of anything south of Daytona Florida. Except Mrs. Smiths. That stuff in the frozen section at the supermarket. Im HEAVILY surprized. And it gets me by until I can get back to Florida.

Same goes with drifting, I have yet to make it to the east coast, but I have talked to many a person from California, Hawaii, Seattle, Texas, Nevada, Missouri, Florida, North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, Pynnsylvania, New York and Tennesee. Ive seen video of thies guys and there crews if not in person. I chill with them. I enjoy a broad cross section of this hobby and let me tell you were all the same. Diffirent ideals outside of drifting but the idea is the same. Were not hard to please. A lot or road large safe enough and keys to a car strong enough to put up with the abuse. Were a very simplistic people. And at least for the people Ive talked to, we enjoy our own association. We make each other laugh.

Best time Ive ever had was at Summit Point camping out with the guys from lookoutdrift.com. The origional guys. Mike, Jerry and that guy that did the sick burnout in his dads Dodge Ram 1500 while listening to the Peanut Butter and Jelly song. That weekend was the absolut sickest. You guys know there is a house in Jersy cohabitated with nothing but drifters? They live and work out of there and when drifters travel to events, thats where they crash. Were just that close knit. So when you talk about taking something that overcomes all boundries and brings people together who can be instant friends even though they have never met before, take a glance at it, make what you think it is and tell me its great. We say no.

So, for now, until any of you can tell me about the smallest group in drifting that gets the most respect, im not going to be all to happy with a show. When you can show me a kid that drifts his butt off and doesnt even have a licence, im not going to like it too much. When you see a guy in a Dodge truck drift, a S/350Z with drift rash gets sick and throws smoke like a stack on a papermill then I will be happy. Show me people with dirty hands that fix there cars at the events all day long just so they can get one run in. Then ill be happy. And in the spirit of Ben Afflec in Boiler Room...


Thats it im done.

EightSevenZero
07-08-2004, 07:35 AM
876 go crack your ribs trying to suck yourself.

first of it all its 870, dude whats with the hostility. i didn't say anything bad did i?

anyway... about the starting drifting comment. i guess i should've explained myself more clearly. as far as i know moto has been the longest drift clinic/event holder/runner whatever in the us.

i guess there was that one d1 event a long time ago... but no one really cared much for it back then.

now about where drifting actually started i'd say it was that little old woman who was driving her first model t back in the early 1900's by accident. there are pictures of enzo drifting back in the day also. so if you want to be technical about it. but as far as in the states... i believe moto of club4ag has endured the longest with his clinic/events therefore my right to say he started drifting in the us(as far as sanctioned events)

you need to calm down son.

DaGOATRollaGTS
07-08-2004, 07:48 AM
Now that sir I can completely agree with.

Thanks, ill take your advice and have a pill.

CourtneyDayFan
07-08-2004, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by DaGOATRollaGTS


As for Ms Day. God bless you for liking cars. Many a guy searches long and hard for a woman like you. Wana learn to drift, that makes you a million times better. Much like Craig no one can blame you for doing your job.

It does seem however that people are missing the point. This thread is specifically about feedback on the show, and it was asked for. Your specifically asking people to tell you whats good AS WELL AS whats wrong with your show. Dont get your panties in a bunch when you start hearing it.

Put Day in a sweatshirt and some baggy jeans with a few greas spots and some mechanics gloves. Hair in a pony tail. Let her get some seat time, start the show off with her getting assed out in an 86 or S13 or FC who cares, let her pull up to a camera and get out to start the show. If the womans got the skills bring her on.



Anyone could appreciate that. And if it's any consolation to those who can't stand this idea of "the dumb blonde hosting" , Courtney will be doing on going performance installs on her project Eclipse with OverBoost.com starting next month. Episode 3 of Redline-TV will also feature her driving an R33 Skyline.

Feint
07-08-2004, 08:26 AM
I saw this one coming from a mile away,actually,make that a lightyear. (http://www.drifting.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=3231&highlight=Spike)

amejin_japan
07-08-2004, 08:34 AM
I guess I'm not in any place to comment since I can't see the show, but it sounds really bad.
Courtney Day is taking "drift lessons?" Whoopty *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*in' *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*. It's not like learning to play piano. It's like my boy Tsukuda says, "There are two types of people when it comes to learning to drift. Those who *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* up and run to their "sempai" and ask them what they should do and how. Then there are the ones who will become good at it. This type of person *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*s up and then analyzes their run. What did I do wrong? How can I solve the problem? Then they go out again and start over."
I'm not some badmofo "drifta~" and I don't want to see anyone like that 'cause that's NOT what it's about.

craiglieberman
07-08-2004, 09:03 AM
The coolest part of all of this is it shows how much everyone cares.

As for internal strife, yes, I was conflicted about several things.

I was not a fan of showcasing Courtney getting out of an airbagged Eclipse...not my idea, it was done without our knowledge. The production company erred.

Alex Pfeiffer was HIGHLY favored by the production company; sponsors (including MagnaFlow) felt he was too "unknown" to relate to the mainstream audience and you MUSt acknowledge that it is customary to use a host who is as VISUALLY appealing, articulate and able to carry a show on their own...we love Alex, but he simply did not fit that bill...in fact, few do. For awhile, we talked about doing strictly voiceovers, with no host, but we wanted a face. We still believe that Courtney is a CAR person, albeit not a drifter, but she ACTUALLY works on her own car. Some may disagree here, but for now, she's our girl.

As for the show itself, The ORIGINAL idea was to take the Battle video concept raw, using top tuner cars here in the US, like the Sparco Evo 8, then showcase the stock stats vs. the after stats and briefly cover the parts that got us there. To a small degree, episode one covered that. It'll get better in upcoming episodes.

An opportunity arose to feature JGTC and the sponsors agreed that this was vital. We teased you with it in episode 1, it'll go more in depth in episode 2.

Episode Two: Covers you drifters in your home environment, at Drift Day 15. We talk to Alex and others who are just learning and really explpain just how hard it is.
We profile three teams, including an RX7 team, last year's champ Ueo and his AE86 car and touch upon the controversy of the GTO entry.
There's a brief feature on showing what it takes to do a magazine cover car shoot, covering the Sparco Evo 8 in detail.
There's more JGTC coverage.
The final segment takes us back to the track to get some performance evaluations of a Supercharged S2000 track car and a street/show/race widebody 800hp Supra.

Trust me: as the season progresses, you'll see aggressive coverage of your favorite drifters, drift cars and top tuner cars tested at the track.

I hope we do you proud. Keep the ideas flowing.

EightSevenZero
07-08-2004, 09:07 AM
... just noticed this right now... but does it seem like everyone is taking this too seriously? its just a tv show. not like tv has an effect on what people do with their lives? (lol)

if its a good show we'll watch and it'll stay on the air, if it sucks, it sucks and we wont watch. no need for people to get a hernia over it other than the investors who spent hundreds of thousands hoping the show is a success.

in the end i remember hearing from successful entrepreneurs that "if you're just doing it for the money, you wont last".

Ziptyed
07-08-2004, 09:10 AM
All things aside I believe you should get your hands on the orange Gymkhana S2000, and I believe it would be great to do a Corolla GTS, or 240 buildup on on the show.

Ripper
07-08-2004, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by EightSevenZero
but does it seem like everyone is taking this too seriously? its just a tv show. not like tv has an effect on what people do with their lives? (lol)


that's not true

DaGOATRollaGTS
07-08-2004, 10:21 AM
Haha yes not true indeed.

You know how mutch people get paid packaging things for viewer consumption. Oh yeah, heard of commercials?

EH! Sounds like the show is all over the place. Not good. Based on most stuff I view from japan they focus on no more than two three segments, 4 at best and its decent coverage too.

Maybe some of the things discussed here should have been the things in the first eppisode. Such as Courtneys project. Like I said car girls are the hottest thing. What, you turn a wrench and know how to drive? I would be floored. Now I wana see this thing. And I hate all of the import oriented shows.

IM interested in seeing Ueo...you know this guy is on his 6th 86 I think. Hes been building them for a very long time now, hes got it down to a science. I wana be that guy.

And Just cause you dont know Alex doesnt mean that everyone in the drifting community thats been around for a few years doesnt. Guess someone missed on that one.

Actually I tell you what I like to see. Ive grown to like the SuperTuner cars doing the hot laps on Tskuba circuit. It was also just published in the latest superstreet and Sport Compact Car, the Time Attacks. Sick fast cars are just where its at.

And sure we care. WE LOVE YOU MAN!

spock
07-08-2004, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by craiglieberman

Alex Pfeiffer was HIGHLY favored by the production company; sponsors (including MagnaFlow) felt he was too "unknown" to relate to the mainstream audience and you MUSt acknowledge that it is customary to use a host who is as VISUALLY appealing, articulate and able to carry a show on their own...we love Alex, but he simply did not fit that bill...in fact, few do.

I think this is where you missed your mark. According to your promo video this show is "for drifters by drifters." This is the part where you really lose my attention. Initially, there was really no need to explain what drifting. We already know what drifting. It kind makes us, your target viewers(supposedly), feel like we're being talked down to. Who cares if the mainstream audience can't relate to Alex Pfeiffer? For drifters by drifters, right?

And as for Ms. Day, she is very beautiful, and as far as I can tell she has good intentions. But most people probably wouldn't be impressed with her Eclipse. The only airbags most enthusiasts want to see on a car are Praxxis air suspension. I saw a comment earlier about her doing an overview of her car with oVerboost.com. You didn't need to drag them into this. oVerboost.com can burn in internet hell.

I think a good American show at the moment that's covering imports would probably be Sports Car Revolution. Although the hosts may be old guys(bleh), they mainly focus on the technical aspect of the cars. In fact, one of the things I'm most impressed with thus far is their RSX project car. Last time I saw they were installing a Mugen Sport Exhaust and were testing it on a road course. The car isn't exactly the most appealing. In fact, it's a very un-sporty maroon. But they know what's neccessary for performance. I think maybe that show could give you a lot of pointers on what you need to do. But hey, it's only my opinion. Who cares?

streetkid
07-08-2004, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by CourtneyDayFan
Anyone could appreciate that. And if it's any consolation to those who can't stand this idea of "the dumb blonde hosting" , Courtney will be doing on going performance installs on her project Eclipse with OverBoost.com starting next month. Episode 3 of Redline-TV will also feature her driving an R33 Skyline.

Well has she ever been in a car where performance driving is the idea? hope she doesn't expect the R33 to drive like her eclipse

nissanguy_24
07-08-2004, 11:48 AM
The point is, whatever problems you have with the show dont take out on the girl. Shes just doing a job she was hired and told to do! You dont insult her personally. Shes a real person with feelings same as you guys. She went in, they paid her to do her best and now your insulting her? if you dont think a model should be on the show thats fine but watch your tounge. its very easy insult someone over the net, but you have to understand thats a real person reading your comments. If you met the lovely young lady in person would you say such hateful things only to watch the hurt well up in her eyes?

Besides insulting women in general is in poor taste. Act like the gentlemen i tell people dirfters are.

FD3S_pilot
07-08-2004, 12:46 PM
yeah i guess we all gotta respect Ms.Day...if she is the only girl Redline got then they should give her the script earlier so that she can study long and she sound for real...i know shes a real car girl thats great in fact there's drifter girls here....u all remember "Drift Pretty"....for me and most straight(or non-straight...whatever) car guys thats not just great THATS HOT!!!but there a difference between a hot chick with no knowledge of how a piston works and a hot girl thats knows rotarys from pistons...

now for MR.CRAIG your job is sounds great but remember the things you will and can determine if your should be praised or on a hit list..and what you do to drifting can label drifters as a no good rebel or a real down to earth a car person that knows right from wrong.....

it sounds to me that Redline Tv is heading the wrong way....so Ueo starring in the next episode sound interest but it better show him in action like that one dvd (forgot whats it called starts with a "H")where it show him doing touge(toe-*Censored**Censored**Censored*) in the very exact AE he used and won back at D1. I want that DVD!!

Maybe you guys at Redline Tv should more info on drifting..i suggest you guys buy a copy of "DRIFT BIBLE"(the Drift King is in there if you know who he is) and "DRIFT SOCIETY"(Kazama showing so moves and the NIGHTWALKERS...go Lorin!) both dvds are sold here..could somebody post a link...i'm tired from all this type.......one last thing :

BEWARE OF TOUGE!!! I BELIEVE REDLINE TV AND OTHERS TV VIEWERS AREN'T READY FOR IT. SO DON'T TRY SHOWING IT ON TV!!!!

CRASHDRIVE
07-08-2004, 12:52 PM
BEWARE OF TOUGE!!! I BELIEVE REDLINE TV AND OTHERS TV VIEWERS AREN'T READY FOR IT. SO DON'T TRY SHOWING IT ON TV!!!!

this is what im affraid of. That's why on my previous suggestion. Redline TV should try to do a little community service. Show where the new drifters can go for legal sanction race ( tel #, locations, events, drift day practices).

The word "TOUGE" This is what really worries me.

WINDING Master
07-08-2004, 01:07 PM
I missed the show, but these references might help.

1) D1 Grand Prix Announcers
-Toshi from APEXi and Terence from Lateral G Racing, who are both involved with a professional drifting team, announced to a diverse audience during the D1 Grand Prix.
http://drifting.com/d1_5.jpg (2003 D1 Grand Prix Crowd Shot)

2) Monster Garage
-Behind-the-scene documentation of tuners at work is interesting.
http://www.drifting.com/APEX_FD_p_12.jpg
http://www.drifting.com/APEX_FD_p_19.jpg
(APEXi D1 U.S.A. FD)

3)Best Motoring Video
-Even Best Motoring used a host dressed as a cat in Fuji Fast, but there was a balance.

4) Option Video
-Content from Japan will please enthusiasts.

5) Orange County Choppers
-Shop coverage and father & son drama is amusing.

6) The Man Show
- Trampolines and silent Juggies boost rating; Just Kidding.

This may sound silly but you can combine most of these elements by having professional drifters with umbrella girls on each shoulder interview tuners in the U.S. and Japan while they build cars at their shops.

DaGOATRollaGTS
07-08-2004, 01:14 PM
Mmmm. Race Queens.

Have you ever seen the pits just before a FISCO or JGTC, yeah. Haller at those guys.

spock
07-08-2004, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by CRASHDRIVE
BEWARE OF TOUGE!!! I BELIEVE REDLINE TV AND OTHERS TV VIEWERS AREN'T READY FOR IT. SO DON'T TRY SHOWING IT ON TV!!!!

this is what im affraid of. That's why on my previous suggestion. Redline TV should try to do a little community service. Show where the new drifters can go for legal sanction race ( tel #, locations, events, drift day practices).

The word "TOUGE" This is what really worries me.
I think the best advice to give about this one is just not to show any street footage or even make reference to it. I'm sure any 'newbs' or anyone that wants to just look cool may go out and try it themselves and end up hurting themselves or other people and ultimately make us, the real enthusiasts, look bad.

rjdevera
07-08-2004, 03:39 PM
Wow - I have never seen so much enthusiasm on a board as I have with drifting.com.

Craig and Redline team - it sounds like you've got your work cut out for you.

I just have to chime in.

My first comment is actually a question to the members of this board. Where does it say Redline TV is suppose to be Drift TV? From the website it seems to just be a pure enthusiast driven show (for enthusiasts by enthusiasts). I know drifting is one of the central topics of the show but not the only topic. I think you guys need to keep this in mind. You guys wouldn't want me to *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* about how this show should just cover road racing, import drag racing, or just JGTC. I want to see all of it! For now I think the concentration is drifting and JGTC but it would be great to see other motorsports action as well. Don't get me wrong - I really like drifting but it's not the only thing that the world revolves around.

There have been some great comments here and also some really ignorant and stupid ones. I am actually watching a Redline shoot as I type this and just with speaking with the guys and girl (meaning Courtney) - I'd have to say that you guys (and I mean you haters) just need to give the show a chance. I believe there will be a segment with Alex and Andy (showing some drift action) as well as some other drifters and some pro drivers from other motorsports areas with some really kick *Censored**Censored**Censored* cars. If you still hate it then - you should go suck on an apple and change the channel.

IMHO - some people in this forum seem to be very narrow minded. Relax and open up a little. You may learn something useful that you thought wouldn't be. If you've ever been to Japan - the drifters there are very welcoming. They want to teach and share there love - not just close their doors. Now I'm not saying that everyone here is like that. I just get that feeling from some of you but hey your entitled to your opinion. If you want "YOUR SPORT" ( and I don't know what made it YOUR SPORT) to stay underground - I think you're in for a giant let down. It's going to go mainstream. In fact it already has started to do so. For better or for worse - it's happening. Drifting is a great and exciting sport to watch - I'd love to see the complete D1 competition on TV!

It's funny that most of you never see the pains that people go through to bring you the best they can with the means that they have. For example - did you know that D1 was primarily closed off to ALL media (from the start of the top 16 matches down to the finals) because they wanted to save all the tandem drift footage for their Option DVD. These guys went through some major hoops just to get what they could - but you guys would never know that.

I have a great respect for the talent needed to be a competitive drifter. Many were purist in the beginning and though many have gripes about todays D1 and Formula Drift events and sanctioning bodies I believe that, in the end, everyone is happy to have a venue to really test their skills. Alex and Andy - what are your thoughts?

I believe that making such underground phenomenons more mainstream can only make it better for most everyone. .. I bet most of the drift drivers are not complaining about driving someone else's car on someone else's dime. I'm sure many of them don't miss crashing their own cars. Yes - much of the innocence will be lost but that's bound to happen anyway. Even street racing at 2 AM loses it's innocence. (And BTW - I was getting hounded by the cops just as much years and years before the F&F thing. We were young people with loud cars. Go figure.) And yes you will get some posers but if you love it - it may give you an opportunity to do what you love for a living. Now isn't that cool? If it doesn't work out - you'd still be doing it anyway.

Since I'm a newbie - I'll just give a quick introduction. I'm RJ de Vera. Most people call me aarrjj. I was the one that managed the build up of the "*Censored**Censored**Censored* Pepsi Evo" as one of you put it. Yes I'd like to build a drift car for myself but not to compete - just to go out have fun and learn more about car control. (Maybe I should make it a Pepsi one, LOL) I'm actually in love with road racing and because I really need some work there - I believe drifting would greatly aid me being a better driver. Most of you will probably hate me because I'm known for more of the show/street car stuff but I love everything about cars. Drifting, drag, circuit, show - it all helps me put a smile on my face. In the end - isn't that what matters most. I guess what I'm trying to say is just to give people and shows like this a chance. Yes - there are lots of times when you'll be let down but hopefully there will also be a lot of times when you'll get a huge grin your face.

When all is said and done - all you have to do is not watch the show and if eveyone feels the same way that you do then the show will go away.

Let's make sure to progress and not regress

I think Redline TV can become a great asset to drifting community as well as other racing communities...


:D

CRASHDRIVE
07-08-2004, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by spock
I think the best advice to give about this one is just not to show any street footage or even make reference to it.

I hope so, my friend.

Ripper
07-08-2004, 03:52 PM
even though you don't know me, WHASSUP RJ!

nissanguy_24
07-08-2004, 03:59 PM
I dissagree i think you guys should be frank and honest about drifting and the street scene. Fact is a kid seeing drifting doesnt need you to give them the idea to do it in the street. No one is going to watch your show rush out and rent out a track to see how it works. The fact is 95 percent of us started in the street and 95 percent of us are still in the street. That wont change by hiding the fact or pretending its otherwise.

Ghost of Duluth
07-08-2004, 04:03 PM
I like this post. Welcome to the site. Never watched Redline TV but you just got a new watcher. I drink Pepsi too. :)

spock
07-08-2004, 04:09 PM
I kind of agree with that and I kind of don't. It is the truth that basically everyone who drifts does it on the street one time or another. But if you have a segment about it and start it off by saying "Now don't try this at home." some people will purposely defy that thinking they are rebellious. I think it's stupid myself, but some people are just like that.

Ghost of Duluth
07-08-2004, 04:11 PM
You want to be frank about street racing and street Drifting? Then show the crashes along with the good stuff. Kids see all the glory stuff and never any of the bad things of sports such as these. If they see the reality and the bhind the scenes stuff then maybe they will make a more informed decision on things that can kill them. Show them a $1000 front end ripped off by a curb or a busted tie rod end that puts someone into the wall. Show them the kid that tried to Drift into the mall parking lot and ramed a Suburban full of kids. Show that stuff. Sure it's a downer but then again so is death.

Show the photographers trying to get out of the way of cars or the stupid stuff. Show it all. Don't censor the hardwork and the let downs like the media in wartime, show everything. People will have a much more healthy respect. Kids these days think that nothing can happen to them. They think "i'll get into Drifting and i'll be so good that I won't crash" Yea right, there are 2 types of Drifters, those who have crashed and those who are going to crash. It's inevitable. You will ding that car of yours so get ready.
I ride downhill Mt Bikes and I am going to go down. That's why I wear body armor, so I don't get smashed.

So show it all man. Hook us up. Hook everyone up. Let them see the truth, not just the chicks in mini-skirts that never seem to show up at my spot.

CRASHDRIVE
07-08-2004, 04:12 PM
Welcome to the board RJ.
Actually in my personal point of view, When i saw their promo video. They stated that their show's backdrop was around drifting. So I though It will be like an American version of Option Video (you know the layout of the video, it's drifting first, some Dai segments, a little interview, showing new products, sometimes even a track test segement, then the perverted segment, lol)

But I was wrong.

nissanguy_24
07-08-2004, 04:20 PM
I agree Ghost 100 percent. Be frank, because no one is NOT going to use the street because they didnt see it on the tv.

spock
07-08-2004, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by rjdevera

IMHO - some people in this forum seem to be very narrow minded. Relax and open up a little. You may learn something useful that you thought wouldn't be. If you've ever been to Japan - the drifters there are very welcoming. They want to teach and share there love - not just close their doors. Now I'm not saying that everyone here is like that. I just get that feeling from some of you but hey your entitled to your opinion. If you want "YOUR SPORT" ( and I don't know what made it YOUR SPORT) to stay underground - I think you're in for a giant let down. It's going to go mainstream. In fact it already has started to do so. For better or for worse - it's happening. Drifting is a great and exciting sport to watch - I'd love to see the complete D1 competition on TV!

I think the reason some people on here seem narrow-minded(I'm pretty sure you're including me in that. Sorry) is that we've seen what kind of effects big media attention has had on the "import scene" and we're afraid of it happening again. Personally, I don't want people to get into this stuff because they think it makes them look cool. Those kinds are usually the thug types and really annoying yuppy kids. But if they can do a good job on this show I'm all for it and will support them 100%. We just don't want "our sport" to be ruined like skateboarding, BMX, Motocross and even NASCAR.

Ghost of Duluth
07-08-2004, 05:21 PM
Let big business come in, heck, hire me!!!! Let me make some big money while supporting a sport that I like. Remember people, you can do the most damage or good from the inside.

Feint
07-08-2004, 05:22 PM
You sold out to Rob Cohen and his Fast and the Furious crap.You were glamorizing and exaggerating racing,which just turned a fire into an inferno.I'm pretty sure most people are aware of the impact FNF has.Can anyone tell me one postive that movie has created except from dragging more people to HIN? Everytime a Honda crashes it's a Fast and the Furious race,even if it's not a race,they're just imitating it anyways in the eyes of the media.So then The Man comes breathing down everyones neck(like it wasn't bad enough before) causing more unwanted headaches than beyond necessary just because someone got a little inspiration from a Racer X article and decided to make a mulit-million dollar movie, pushing it completely over the edge.Then he grabs two so-called icons (you and Craig) to try and keep it authentic and real.Both of you created two huge sucesses for corporate America,and two huge disasters/train wrecks for car enthusiasts.Why should anyone trust you two?

You know how nicer this car was before it got in Craigs hands? Do you know how much faster it was before it got in his hands?

http://www.posternow.com/imagem/f/f19200.jpg
http://www.topauto.free.fr/2fast2furious/2Fast%202Furious.4.jpg
http://www.hollywoodjesus.com/movie/2fast2furious/43.jpeg

When SCC got their hands on it,it ran a 14.1 quarter mile.Yeah,there's stock Skylines that haul more *Censored**Censored**Censored* than that.That Skyline seriously was messed after it fell in Craigs hands.Three nitrous bottles,wtf...Nothing like have three bottles of NAWS for a 14 second Skyline GTR.What happend to your authenticy there? And that design,I've seen blind draw better designs than that.

http://www.skylinegtr.com/n_images/gallery/spotlight/r34ft_b.jpg

Yeah,you know what's ironic,Courtney's Eclipse has the same silver paint as the 2F2F Skyline."You won't find any bling bling or neons here"except my rice Eclipse with Altezzas,some cheap air bag suspension,a big stereo with a built-in navigation,DVD,and a PS2 in the dash right? If Courtney's a car person,then she would research deeper into the area she's covering.Hell,if she was a professional she wouldn't jump in without knowing the basics.Her presentation is lack lustre.She had no delivery what so ever,next to nothing enthusiam,and overall,just a piece of *Censored**Censored**Censored* to look at it.At least she's nice to watch on mute.

I guess Courtney's groupie is going to jump in and try to flame me for this.

Weapon X
07-08-2004, 05:40 PM
Atta boy Feint

Ripper
07-08-2004, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by Feint
You sold out to Rob Cohen and his Fast and the Furious crap.You were glamorizing and exaggerating racing,which just turned a fire into an inferno.I'm pretty sure most people are aware of the impact FNF has.Can anyone tell me one postive that movie has created except from dragging more people to HIN? Everytime a Honda crashes it's a Fast and the Furious race,even if it's not a race,they're just imitating it anyways in the eyes of the media.So then The Man comes breathing down everyones neck(like it wasn't bad enough before) causing more unwanted headaches than beyond necessary just because someone got a little inspiration from a Racer X article and decided to make a mulit-million dollar movie, pushing it completely over the edge.Then he grabs two so-called icons (you and Craig) to try and keep it authentic and real.Both of you created two huge sucesses for corporate America,and two huge disasters/train wrecks for car enthusiasts.Why should anyone trust you two?

You know how nicer this car was before it got in Craigs hands? Do you know how much faster it was before it got in his hands?

http://www.posternow.com/imagem/f/f19200.jpg
http://www.topauto.free.fr/2fast2furious/2Fast%202Furious.4.jpg
http://www.hollywoodjesus.com/movie/2fast2furious/43.jpeg

When SCC got their hands on it,it ran a 14.1 quarter mile.Yeah,there's stock Skylines that haul more *Censored**Censored**Censored* than that.That Skyline seriously was messed after it fell in Craigs hands.Three nitrous bottles,wtf...Nothing like have three bottles of NAWS for a 14 second Skyline GTR.What happend to your authenticy there? And that design,I've seen blind draw better designs than that.

http://www.skylinegtr.com/n_images/gallery/spotlight/r34ft_b.jpg

Yeah,you know what's ironic,Courtney's Eclipse has the same silver paint as the 2F2F Skyline."You won't find any bling bling or neons here"except my rice Eclipse with Altezzas,some cheap air bag suspension,a big stereo with a built-in navigation,DVD,and a PS2 in the dash right? If Courtney's a car person,then she would research deeper into the area she's covering.Hell,if she was a professional she wouldn't jump in without knowing the basics.Her presentation is lack lustre.She had no delivery what so ever,next to nothing enthusiam,and overall,just a piece of *Censored**Censored**Censored* to look at it.At least she's nice to watch on mute.

I guess Courtney's groupie is going to jump in and try to flame me for this.

ouch!

FD3S_pilot
07-08-2004, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by Ripper
ouch!

double ouch! *as reference to Feint

suberi_RPS13
07-08-2004, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by rjdevera
I believe that making such underground phenomenons more mainstream can only make it better for most everyone. ..
:D

I agree... It may seem like a bad idea to most of you right now to make drifting a huge thing. But in the long run it means...more tracks, events, and drift shops..even more chances for American drives to compete with D1. Everyone needs to sit back and see what happens to it, instead of trying to keep it under lock and key.

And don't worry about everyone hating you for being more of a show person. Anyways everyone here probably started out in a Civic.

nissanguy_24
07-08-2004, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by suberi_RPS13
I agree... It may seem like a bad idea to most of you right now to make drifting a huge thing. But in the long run it means...more tracks, events, and drift shops..even more chances for American drives to compete with D1. Everyone needs to sit back and see what happens to it, instead of trying to keep it under lock and key.

And don't worry about everyone hating you for being more of a show person. Anyways everyone here probably started out in a Civic.

Show me 3 things that have gotten better when it went mainstream? and for the record. I never owned a civic or wanted a civic.

snowblind
07-08-2004, 07:37 PM
do not mention touge. If you do then youll show footage of one, and ruin someones perfectly good spot. so dont. but talk about the street all you want, because your ganster *Censored**Censored**Censored* wannabe followers will do it all over busy freeways anyway just cause its the next cool thing. This is only gonna do a few things for drifters.

-give em' a bad name.

-get the police on the backs of anyone in a 240 or hachi roku.

-make the sport less accesible to the regular guys out there.

-ruin their spots.

-drive the prices of 'drift' cars even higher.

you get the picture.

like i said before we cant stop drifting from becoming what it will become, but the people feel it is their sport. And alot of people think it is being stolen from them and exploited just to make a quick buck. If the show is legit, we will like it. If the show is either fast or furious we will flame the crap out of it, but the ganster wannabes will love it and you'll(anyone involved) will make more money because you can put drifting in von dutch ads and all that *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*. your choice.

yes i am being judgemental, sorry, I usualy try not to be.

my 1 88 u
07-08-2004, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by Feint
You sold out to Rob Cohen and his Fast and the Furious crap.You were glamorizing and exaggerating racing,which just turned a fire into an inferno.I'm pretty sure most people are aware of the impact FNF has.Can anyone tell me one postive that movie has created except from dragging more people to HIN? Everytime a Honda crashes it's a Fast and the Furious race,even if it's not a race,they're just imitating it anyways in the eyes of the media.So then The Man comes breathing down everyones neck(like it wasn't bad enough before) causing more unwanted headaches than beyond necessary just because someone got a little inspiration from a Racer X article and decided to make a mulit-million dollar movie, pushing it completely over the edge.Then he grabs two so-called icons (you and Craig) to try and keep it authentic and real.Both of you created two huge sucesses for corporate America,and two huge disasters/train wrecks for car enthusiasts.Why should anyone trust you two?

You know how nicer this car was before it got in Craigs hands? Do you know how much faster it was before it got in his hands?

http://www.posternow.com/imagem/f/f19200.jpg
http://www.topauto.free.fr/2fast2furious/2Fast%202Furious.4.jpg
http://www.hollywoodjesus.com/movie/2fast2furious/43.jpeg

When SCC got their hands on it,it ran a 14.1 quarter mile.Yeah,there's stock Skylines that haul more *Censored**Censored**Censored* than that.That Skyline seriously was messed after it fell in Craigs hands.Three nitrous bottles,wtf...Nothing like have three bottles of NAWS for a 14 second Skyline GTR.What happend to your authenticy there? And that design,I've seen blind draw better designs than that.

http://www.skylinegtr.com/n_images/gallery/spotlight/r34ft_b.jpg

Yeah,you know what's ironic,Courtney's Eclipse has the same silver paint as the 2F2F Skyline."You won't find any bling bling or neons here"except my rice Eclipse with Altezzas,some cheap air bag suspension,a big stereo with a built-in navigation,DVD,and a PS2 in the dash right? If Courtney's a car person,then she would research deeper into the area she's covering.Hell,if she was a professional she wouldn't jump in without knowing the basics.Her presentation is lack lustre.She had no delivery what so ever,next to nothing enthusiam,and overall,just a piece of *Censored**Censored**Censored* to look at it.At least she's nice to watch on mute.

I guess Courtney's groupie is going to jump in and try to flame me for this.

this had to be said.

Ziptyed
07-08-2004, 08:22 PM
Snowblind inadvertinly brought a great point. Do you think anyone who wears Von Dutch even know who the man was?I seriously doubt it. Von Dutch was a leader in the custom car scene in the 50's and 60's,did amazing paint jobs, and was one of the best pinstripers to date. My point is after fashion got a hold of the Von Dutch name, the actual legend behind the name has been forgotten by most.

SilviaLove
07-08-2004, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by suberi_RPS13
And don't worry about everyone hating you for being more of a show person. Anyways everyone here probably started out in a Civic. Big assumtions there guy...First car i ever owned was a 240sx..still do. For those that are out of touch with the grassroots drifters here's a look at what its all about <a href="http://www.BubbaDrift.com"target="_blank">BubbaDrift</a>. Ok, they have small sponserships but thats the nature of the game, especially competiting in FD. The fact is that most of the vehicle work is done in thier garage and they aren't drifting for the money, just for the challenge and love of driving.

my 1 88 u
07-08-2004, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by suberi_RPS13


And don't worry about everyone hating you for being more of a show person. Anyways everyone here probably started out in a Civic.

Yes, it gets me to work and back with less money spent on gas than my 240sx. That does not mean I care for boring car shows that end up doing nothing but hurt my feet. This year at NOPI they better figure out a way to keep the drifting and auto x inside the AMSW or else they wont manage to get any of my money to go in.

rjdevera
07-08-2004, 11:24 PM
Ouch. Tell me how you really feel. Really I don't mind.

Had to be said. I can understand that. So thus my response.

(Deep Breath)

I hate it when it gets to this so my apologies to the reasonable people in this forum.

First and foremost, I must point out that Fast and Furious was a Hollywood movie. It's suppose to be over the top and over glamourized - that's Hollywood. It was never meant to be a documentary. I was hoping against it being so Hollywood but that's what happened. The movie had it's pros and cons but I think the good outweighs the bads. I think it attracted the right decision makers to support our industry. Now people can hold events and competitions (both in the racing and show world) where the competitors actually can get something in return for all their blood, sweat, and tears. Did we get more knuckle heads that sport neon and big shopping cart wings. Of course. I know it bugs but really does it matter. If that works for them - then so be it. Here is what I would dream to see. Instead of tearing people with new found enthusiasm down, it would be cool to do our part to educate them more of the different aspects of the culture and then let them choose their path. I'd like to see places like Driftland here in the US. Do you think it would be possible to have such places if our market doesn't get bigger and more exposure. Possibly yes, but more possible if we make our market stronger. I would have died to have the current skate parks around when I used to skate. Through the ups and downs of the extreme sports - I think they have made great positive progression. Anyone remember the movie Gleaming the Cube. Some may have liked it, but the hardcore guys would have preferred the Search for Animal Chin but all of that was part of why skateboarding took off and progressed (along with ESPN and the the X-Games which came later on in time). That being said, whether it's Fast and Furious, BMI, Grip Video, or Redline TV - it's all part of what will progress our whole sport (and with this I mean circuit, drift, drag, and show) to the next levels. I have always looked at it this way. I do what I can to expose our sport and culture and to get others involved and I also do what I can to help show people what they can do after they get initially interested. These days I just get paid for it. 10 years ago - it was all because I wanted more people to love what I did as well. It's this type of progression that helps justify people and events getting sponsorship and sponsorships help people do what they want for a living. So what part of this don't you want. Yes - there will be things that you like and dislike and things that will be good to you and things that will not be but we live in reality and not some dream. Nothing gives me more joy than watching somebody do what they dream of doing. I watch Daijiro Yoshihara drive the Pac Rim Silvia or Andy Hope in the RO_JA RSX circuit car and I see the joy in the eyes. Their presence here is partly due to the fact that our sport has grown because of all that has happened.

Secondly, Craig and I were hired as consultants. That's what we did. I only worked on the first movie personally but if you have ever worked on a big production or a big company - just because you're a consultant doesn't mean they will listen to you. We were there just to give our input and to talk about things that we had gone through. They took it from there. They usually did not listen. Case in point. I sold Universal the Veilside/Versus S2000 right before the second movie. I didn't agree with Singletons vision so I opted not to be involved - I don't think Singleton cared to have me involved as well. The car had just been painted a beautiful sunburst orange just like my NSX now. I told them I hope they would keep the color. I come to check out the car a week later and the lead designer for the film made it pink with an anime character on the side. Things like this happen. There were some lines and sounds in the first movie that were way off but they had already been taped. 4 way drag race. Never would have happened at Sylmar street races but it worked for the movie, which was "a movie". For the record, I hated the graphics in the first and second movie but that's the way the decision came down. I'm not going to cry about it. I mean my car had Ninja stars in part one and pink shag seats in the second but that's what happens when you have other people making decisions which seem right to them. In their eyes the movie was not meant for the hardcore folks. It's what seemed right to them.

You must think I am the devil incarnate. That's fine. It's your opinion and I really don't care. A train wreck for car enthusiasts. Well as I said you are entitled to your opinion but I must say you act like you're the only enthusiast in existence. I am still one myself and as far as I am concerned - there are more parts for more cars out there so enthusiasts of all kinds (mild or hardcore ) can partake in the car culture movement. Some parts I think I could do without but I don't think I'm so high and mighty (see what I mean by narrow minded people) that I can say that my way is the only way and everyone else's way is lame, wack, or stupid.

The man will always breath down our necks. We were getting hounded in our Hondas and Acuras and Toyotas and Mazdas just for having an exhaust in '94 and there were a ton of people before me that endured even worse with their 510s and 240Zs. Do you think the man cares if you drive a Hachi, Sil-eighty, FD, or an Integra. Doesn't matter bub. I would only care to try and educate the man about what we do (through our legal sanctioned events) and hope that they start to recognize our sport and gives us our respect. If people in our world are partaking in illegal activities - well the man will come down on us. Ever been in a raid where they seal the exits of the in and out roads and bring trailer trucks to impound cars. Not fun but I was asking for it.

BTW - when did all the people tuning their cars become all thugs. I mean there are a number of them out there but they are not the majority. I think some of you have fallen and believe all the media stereotypes which is exactly what you don't want to happen to "your drifting scene". How do you expect people not to stereo type you guys if you are doing it yourself.

Lastly (deep breath) Some of you talk like you're Keiichi Tsuchiya or Kunimitsu (who is the racer in Japan from whom Keiichi first saw the 4 wheel drift technique in actual race conditions) - like you are the godfathers and og grass roots guys that this scene is supposedly being stolen from. Keiichi (along with Daijiro Inada) are the ones working to popularize this sport at the forefront - if anyone can lay claim to this it's them...

go ahead and hate me again but some of you frustrate me and that's the honest truth.

I'm sure I do the same to you...

All I can hope for is that somewhere down the line - we understand each other a bit better.

WINDING Master
07-08-2004, 11:52 PM
Can you tell us about today's shoot?

Originally posted by rjdevera
I am actually watching a Redline shoot as I type this
:D

LAPD
07-09-2004, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by rjdevera
Ouch. Tell me how you really feel. Really I don't mind.

Had to be said. I can understand that. So thus my response.

(Deep Breath)

I hate it when it gets to this so my apologies to the reasonable people in this forum.

First and foremost, I must point out that Fast and Furious was a Hollywood movie. It's suppose to be over the top and over glamourized - that's Hollywood. It was never meant to be a documentary. I was hoping against it being so Hollywood but that's what happened. The movie had it's pros and cons but I think the good outweighs the bads. I think it attracted the right decision makers to support our industry. Now people can hold events and competitions (both in the racing and show world) where the competitors actually can get something in return for all their blood, sweat, and tears. Did we get more knuckle heads that sport neon and big shopping cart wings. Of course. I know it bugs but really does it matter. If that works for them - then so be it. Here is what I would dream to see. Instead of tearing people with new found enthusiasm down, it would be cool to do our part to educate them more of the different aspects of the culture and then let them choose their path. I'd like to see places like Driftland here in the US. Do you think it would be possible to have such places if our market doesn't get bigger and more exposure. Possibly yes, but more possible if we make our market stronger. I would have died to have the current skate parks around when I used to skate. Through the ups and downs of the extreme sports - I think they have made great positive progression. Anyone remember the movie Gleaming the Cube. Some may have liked it, but the hardcore guys would have preferred the Search for Animal Chin but all of that was part of why skateboarding took off and progressed (along with ESPN and the the X-Games which came later on in time). That being said, whether it's Fast and Furious, BMI, Grip Video, or Redline TV - it's all part of what will progress our whole sport (and with this I mean circuit, drift, drag, and show) to the next levels. I have always looked at it this way. I do what I can to expose our sport and culture and to get others involved and I also do what I can to help show people what they can do after they get initially interested. These days I just get paid for it. 10 years ago - it was all because I wanted more people to love what I did as well. It's this type of progression that helps justify people and events getting sponsorship and sponsorships help people do what they want for a living. So what part of this don't you want. Yes - there will be things that you like and dislike and things that will be good to you and things that will not be but we live in reality and not some dream. Nothing gives me more joy than watching somebody do what they dream of doing. I watch Daijiro Yoshihara drive the Pac Rim Silvia or Andy Hope in the RO_JA RSX circuit car and I see the joy in the eyes. Their presence here is partly due to the fact that our sport has grown because of all that has happened.

Secondly, Craig and I were hired as consultants. That's what we did. I only worked on the first movie personally but if you have ever worked on a big production or a big company - just because you're a consultant doesn't mean they will listen to you. We were there just to give our input and to talk about things that we had gone through. They took it from there. They usually did not listen. Case in point. I sold Universal the Veilside/Versus S2000 right before the second movie. I didn't agree with Singletons vision so I opted not to be involved - I don't think Singleton cared to have me involved as well. The car had just been painted a beautiful sunburst orange just like my NSX now. I told them I hope they would keep the color. I come to check out the car a week later and the lead designer for the film made it pink with an anime character on the side. Things like this happen. There were some lines and sounds in the first movie that were way off but they had already been taped. 4 way drag race. Never would have happened at Sylmar street races but it worked for the movie, which was "a movie". For the record, I hated the graphics in the first and second movie but that's the way the decision came down. I'm not going to cry about it. I mean my car had Ninja stars in part one and pink shag seats in the second but that's what happens when you have other people making decisions which seem right to them. In their eyes the movie was not meant for the hardcore folks. It's what seemed right to them.

You must think I am the devil incarnate. That's fine. It's your opinion and I really don't care. A train wreck for car enthusiasts. Well as I said you are entitled to your opinion but I must say you act like you're the only enthusiast in existence. I am still one myself and as far as I am concerned - there are more parts for more cars out there so enthusiasts of all kinds (mild or hardcore ) can partake in the car culture movement. Some parts I think I could do without but I don't think I'm so high and mighty (see what I mean by narrow minded people) that I can say that my way is the only way and everyone else's way is lame, wack, or stupid.

The man will always breath down our necks. We were getting hounded in our Hondas and Acuras and Toyotas and Mazdas just for having an exhaust in '94 and there were a ton of people before me that endured even worse with their 510s and 240Zs. Do you think the man cares if you drive a Hachi, Sil-eighty, FD, or an Integra. Doesn't matter bub. I would only care to try and educate the man about what we do (through our legal sanctioned events) and hope that they start to recognize our sport and gives us our respect. If people in our world are partaking in illegal activities - well the man will come down on us. Ever been in a raid where they seal the exits of the in and out roads and bring trailer trucks to impound cars. Not fun but I was asking for it.

BTW - when did all the people tuning their cars become all thugs. I mean there are a number of them out there but they are not the majority. I think some of you have fallen and believe all the media stereotypes which is exactly what you don't want to happen to "your drifting scene". How do you expect people not to stereo type you guys if you are doing it yourself.

Lastly (deep breath) Some of you talk like you're Keiichi Tsuchiya or Kunimitsu (who is the racer in Japan from whom Keiichi first saw the 4 wheel drift technique in actual race conditions) - like you are the godfathers and og grass roots guys that this scene is supposedly being stolen from. Keiichi (along with Daijiro Inada) are the ones working to popularize this sport at the forefront - if anyone can lay claim to this it's them...

go ahead and hate me again but some of you frustrate me and that's the honest truth.

I'm sure I do the same to you...

All I can hope for is that somewhere down the line - we understand each other a bit better.
WELL SAID

craiglieberman
07-09-2004, 08:54 AM
First off, kudos to RJ for taking the time to post. He's more polite than I am, so let me address one person in particular: feint.

Dude, you're a hater, plain and simple. You don't a THING about what you're talking about.

FYI; I've been in the automotive business since 1982.
FYI: I've been racing in one form or another since 1990.
FYI: In the mid 80's, I was street racing with my Datsun Z cars before any of you ever heard the term "import."
FYI: I was drifting before it was called drifting...it was called "powersliding" and yes, on a deserted canyon road. The year? 1986, so don't accuse me of being in it for a buck, I've paid my dues in blood, sweat, experience and traffic tickets.
FYI: I have an SCCA license, have driven literally hundreds of top cars and done it on racetracks in three countries, and have made more than 500 drag racing passes since 1986. I've had a 10 second Mustang, a 12 second Impala SS on N20 and a 12 second Supra, among other cars. RJ has done even more than that. THIS IS OUR LIVING. Forgive us if we dismiss your claims as to us being "not authentic" as mindless drivel.
FYI: The Skyline was NEVER built to be fast, it was built as a sponsorship marketing tool for the companies involved...an extreme example of the best tuner car around with some of the best most exotic stuff around. 99% of the stuff on that car was straight from Japan. The APC sticker from the movie was a paid product placement deal, so if you think APC sucks, email them, not me. Do you cry to Jeff Gordon if you don't like DuPont paint? I was paid very handsomely to build the car this way, and I enjoyed every minute of it and I would do it again. Sponsors got value, it was on the cover of a dozen magazines worldwide so I guess you could say I did my job. Don't like it? Great...go buy your own and 'show me how it's done.' Otherwise, try to understand the concept of a purpose built car: you don't cry to drag racers telling them that their cars don't drift well, right? Those are purpose built cars, just like my Skyline was.

FYI: When SCC tested it, they tested it in 2WD format. If you did ANY research at all,you'd know that the 4WD was disabled so that stunt drivers could drift the cars. That EXACT car ran a 12.2 in the 1/4 mile when Motorex had it.

FYI: My 'fast' car is parked in my garage...a 550hp 996TT and yes, I've had it at both the drag strip and Willow Springs. Paid for with money I made from my work consulting for companies within the industry.

If you could show that I was taking money I made in this sport and spending it on crap like stocks or such, you'd could call me a sellout. In reality, I spend about $40,000 a year on mods for car, on AVERAGE. Guess you could say I contribute.

Now, what are you credentials? How many magazine cover cars have you built? How many companies have hired you as a consultant? What racing credentials do you hold? How many race cars have you built? Until the answer is at least "two" to each of these questions, you'll forgive me if I dismiss the rest of your posts as the opinions of someone who has no real experience.

Selling out? Who do you work for? You sold out to them. How much do you spend a year on car mods? See my point? We give back a bunch, more than our fair share. As for the movie, we were paid to do a service, so quit your mindless whining about how WE did XXX....if you think F&F did all this, you're looking at the negative and not the positive. This makes you narrow minded in every sense of the word.

For the idgits who still insist that F&F brought down "the man" on street racing, I say "good." If you're dumb enough to participate in illegal activities, you're asking for it. If you're dumb enough to do it right after such a movie comes out, you're dumber yet. If you're even dumber to allow yourselves to be videotaped in the process, congrats, you and R Kelly have something in common. ("oh, I'd never do that.") Yeah, right. The video stores are filled with DVD's of dumba$$es that do it for FREE. Smart, real smart.

As for the "one positive" thing the movie has created, I can name 25, but for the sake of space, I'll mention but a handful:
There are more automotive shows than ever before, giving viewers a choice.
Corporate sponsors have come in...including into D1, which would NEVER have been possible if F&F did not break new ground.
Microsoft is sponsoring events because of the excitement of the movie;
In fact, drifting as a sport wouldn't have gotten a dime in sponsorship if F&F had not broadened the size of the market;
MTV is doing projects because of the movie;
More magazines exist now because of the movie;
More performance companies can offer a greater range of products, because of the movie;
Since the tuner market has grown so much, some of our favorite tuner companies straight from Japan are now increasing their presence here because of the movie;

The bottom line: YOU NOW HAVE more choices and more capital being infused into this sport because of that movie. If you don't like it, great, race illegally in your "favorite spot" and do it with no money in your pocket.

You don't see any pro drifters handing their sponsorship checks back, do you? They know what I know: doing what you love is great, doing it for a paycheck is a dream come true. You should be so lucky.

Just for a second, stop being narrow minded and look at the good that has come from this (bad) movie. Did RJ and I like it? Not really, it had its flaws. Was it good for the sport? Most assuredly. Did the mainstream media try to capitalize the negatives? Of course. They don't report the good news, only the bad...that's the liberal media for you.

yarzan
07-09-2004, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by craiglieberman
First off, kudos to RJ for taking the time to post. He's more polite than I am, so let me address one person in particular: feint.

Dude, you're a hater, plain and simple. You don't a THING about what you're talking about.

FYI; I've been in the automotive business since 1982.
FYI: I've been racing in one form or another since 1990.
FYI: In the mid 80's, I was street racing with my Datsun Z cars before any of you ever heard the term "import."
FYI: I was drifting before it was called drifting...it was called "powersliding" and yes, on a deserted canyon road. The year? 1986, so don't accuse me of being in it for a buck, I've paid my dues in blood, sweat, experience and traffic tickets.
FYI: I have an SCCA license, have driven literally hundreds of top cars and done it on racetracks in three countries, and have made more than 500 drag racing passes since 1986. I've had a 10 second Mustang, a 12 second Impala SS on N20 and a 12 second Supra, among other cars. RJ has done even more than that. THIS IS OUR LIVING. Forgive us if we dismiss your claims as to us being "not authentic" as mindless drivel.
FYI: The Skyline was NEVER built to be fast, it was built as a sponsorship marketing tool for the companies involved...an extreme example of the best tuner car around with some of the best most exotic stuff around. 99% of the stuff on that car was straight from Japan. The APC sticker from the movie was a paid product placement deal, so if you think APC sucks, email them, not me. Do you cry to Jeff Gordon if you don't like DuPont paint? I was paid very handsomely to build the car this way, and I enjoyed every minute of it and I would do it again. Sponsors got value, it was on the cover of a dozen magazines worldwide so I guess you could say I did my job. Don't like it? Great...go buy your own and 'show me how it's done.' Otherwise, try to understand the concept of a purpose built car: you don't cry to drag racers telling them that their cars don't drift well, right? Those are purpose built cars, just like my Skyline was.

FYI: When SCC tested it, they tested it in 2WD format. If you did ANY research at all,you'd know that the 4WD was disabled so that stunt drivers could drift the cars. That EXACT car ran a 12.2 in the 1/4 mile when Motorex had it.

FYI: My 'fast' car is parked in my garage...a 550hp 996TT and yes, I've had it at both the drag strip and Willow Springs. Paid for with money I made from my work consulting for companies within the industry.

If you could show that I was taking money I made in this sport and spending it on crap like stocks or such, you'd could call me a sellout. In reality, I spend about $40,000 a year on mods for car, on AVERAGE. Guess you could say I contribute.

Now, what are you credentials? How many magazine cover cars have you built? How many companies have hired you as a consultant? What racing credentials do you hold? How many race cars have you built? Until the answer is at least "two" to each of these questions, you'll forgive me if I dismiss the rest of your posts as the opinions of someone who has no real experience.

Selling out? Who do you work for? You sold out to them. How much do you spend a year on car mods? See my point? We give back a bunch, more than our fair share. As for the movie, we were paid to do a service, so quit your mindless whining about how WE did XXX....if you think F&F did all this, you're looking at the negative and not the positive. This makes you narrow minded in every sense of the word.

For the idgits who still insist that F&F brought down "the man" on street racing, I say "good." If you're dumb enough to participate in illegal activities, you're asking for it. If you're dumb enough to do it right after such a movie comes out, you're dumber yet. If you're even dumber to allow yourselves to be videotaped in the process, congrats, you and R Kelly have something in common. ("oh, I'd never do that.") Yeah, right. The video stores are filled with DVD's of dumba$$es that do it for FREE. Smart, real smart.

As for the "one positive" thing the movie has created, I can name 25, but for the sake of space, I'll mention but a handful:
There are more automotive shows than ever before, giving viewers a choice.
Corporate sponsors have come in...including into D1, which would NEVER have been possible if F&F did not break new ground.
Microsoft is sponsoring events because of the excitement of the movie;
In fact, drifting as a sport wouldn't have gotten a dime in sponsorship if F&F had not broadened the size of the market;
MTV is doing projects because of the movie;
More magazines exist now because of the movie;
More performance companies can offer a greater range of products, because of the movie;
Since the tuner market has grown so much, some of our favorite tuner companies straight from Japan are now increasing their presence here because of the movie;

The bottom line: YOU NOW HAVE more choices and more capital being infused into this sport because of that movie. If you don't like it, great, race illegally in your "favorite spot" and do it with no money in your pocket.

You don't see any pro drifters handing their sponsorship checks back, do you? They know what I know: doing what you love is great, doing it for a paycheck is a dream come true. You should be so lucky.

Just for a second, stop being narrow minded and look at the good that has come from this (bad) movie. Did RJ and I like it? Not really, it had its flaws. Was it good for the sport? Most assuredly. Did the mainstream media try to capitalize the negatives? Of course. They don't report the good news, only the bad...that's the liberal media for you.

a few things bothered me.... first of all i dont think MTV would do such a great job with this.. "look guys, Yellowcard can drift!" unless they want 14 yr old girls to get in on drifting, then MTV should jsut stay away from drifting. Microsoft doing track events???? man, they'll do anything for money, wouldnt they. also, i dont think you can measure a persons skill and ability by how many magazine covers they've been on.

So will an SR20 fit in my civic?:D

amejin_japan
07-09-2004, 09:16 AM
Whatever Leiberman. You were a P.I.M.P before it was pimping... it was called "wearing jewelry." You were probably drag racing when it was called "conducting one of them there horse-less wagons"
You were drifting before dori-kin.

You are barking up the wrong tree here my man. It's really no wonder you have to go to outside markets because you've obviously alienated the core market.

craiglieberman
07-09-2004, 09:24 AM
Bravo! Brilliant response...you MUST be right then, with such a well thought out reply.

My point: no respect begets no respect.

rjdevera
07-09-2004, 09:26 AM
Craig - I luv ya bro but there is no need to attack Feint. Yes, I know he is a hater. I know he has taken some shots at you as he has with me but what I am trying to tell everyone here is to be open minded and to share their passion and to forget about the negativity. In the end we all have to live in this sport and culture together.

Yarzan - I've always thought of putting a Pulsar SR 20 in a Civic (doing front wheel drive set up) just for the hell of it. I wonder how many people I would piss off. When that came up in the movie - I totally laughed my *Censored**Censored**Censored* off. Than I thought about it and thought - you know that could be done. It couldn't be any harder than putting a Skyline motor in a Supra a la Top Secret style. It would be a fun project...

WINDING Master
07-09-2004, 09:36 AM
RJ and Craig,

Since you are both here can you tell us about the features in the next show?

craiglieberman
07-09-2004, 09:41 AM
Here's a quote from me from page 12 of this thread; it talks a little bit about what's coming up next.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

An opportunity arose to feature JGTC and the sponsors agreed that this was vital. We teased you with it in episode 1, it'll go more in depth in episode 2.

Episode Two: Covers you drifters in your home environment, at Drift Day 15. We talk to Alex and others who are just learning and really explpain just how hard it is.
We profile three teams, including an RX7 team, last year's champ Ueo and his AE86 car and touch upon the controversy of the GTO entry.
There's a brief feature on showing what it takes to do a magazine cover car shoot, covering the Sparco Evo 8 in detail.
There's more JGTC coverage.
The final segment takes us back to the track to get some performance evaluations of a Supercharged S2000 track car and a street/show/race widebody 800hp Supra.

Trust me: as the season progresses, you'll see aggressive coverage of your favorite drifters, drift cars and top tuner cars tested at the track.

There's also a segment where we cover a drift team as they get ready for the D1GP the next day. It showcases the true effort of what it takes to get ready for a grueling day of abuse.



To my bro RJ: Sorry about attacking Feint, but he had it coming. Every once in awhile, I get tired of being "the bigger guy" and gotta unload on the odd 21 year old that surely must know everything because he's watched a couple of episodes of Initial D.

my 1 88 u
07-09-2004, 09:49 AM
this thread is not about sponsers, who has a right to state their claim to drifting, or what all this attention will do to the sport, this thread is about what we saw in that show. The fact is we didnt see enough of what WE wanted to see. maybe that is due to you thinking everything related to japanese and automotive industry as one catagory you can exploit. Drag, Drift, Road racing, car shows, illegal street racing, etc. might fit in a 2hr dvd or a 200 page mag but for a half an hour show no way.

We wanted a focused drifting and performanced oriented show. I will watch this week and probably next week too with the hope of getting that. You will not get me to settle and be like "at least its getting coverage at all. Without Magnaflow none of this would even happen." B.S. I dont hate sponsers but i try to only support sponsers that represent what i like and want. This is our board to state our opinions one sided or not.

When we found out that APC was sponsoring DriftXtreme we we skeptical and critical untill a drift xtreme member and moderator of this board edjucated us. We know what we like so dont try to make excuses of why you cant deliver it to us.

We will not respect you more because you can drag you car this fast, create a show car this pretty, or make this much money in the process. we will respect you when we see you at a drift practice or competition NEAR US tearing it up.

STFUAD
07-09-2004, 09:53 AM
First of all, thank you for voicing your opinion... that is what this forum is all about. Even if a bunch of people dislike you for what has happened to the industry in their eyes we all have to admit one thing... Craig... you are a very savvy businessman and we can't take that away from you... but... one thing you said caught my eye... when you said, "you don't see pro drifters handing in their sponsorship checks". 99.9% of the pro drifters in America and in Japan do NOT get sponsorship checks. Usually the sponsorship comes in the way of a percentage price off of cost, or cost on parts. Even very rarely do most of the drifters get parts for free. Only two pro drifters that I know get "checks" for their participation in this sport. Most pro drifters are going to have to sell a kidney or two just to remain in the game.

Also, remember, this site IS drifting.com Almost all of the members are here for DRIFTING and DRIFTING only. Please forgive them if they criticize the show scene or the neon lights and such but the fact of the matter is... they just don't care. The lifestyle you lead and the lifestyle they lead is VERY different. The hardcore drifters are just afraid of a F&F 3 drifting movement that will raise the price of their beloved cars and make the youngsters in this country do stupid things like try to drift their mom's car after watching the movie. I myself witnessed the pandemonium after F&F 1 when after we left the movie theater, it was dangerous to drive on the streets because everyone in a lowered honda was revving on you and drag racing from light to light.

I cannot criticize you on all the bling in the industry because I was a part of it. 4-5 years ago, I had a show crx with neons and wide fender flares with headlight and taillight conversions. I remember going head to head with people like RJ and LJ Garcia. I loved that industry. But that was then, this is now. A new generation of kids and automotive junkies is being brought up on a new concept.

RJ, thank you for input into this. It is always great to see some of the top people in the field of what they do show up and give their opinion on current situations. Just know that to most of the crowd on here, unfortunately, you are the red-headed stepchild. Because of your affiliation with the scene that is the antithesis of what most of the members on here believe it should be... they are going to give you crap. Guilt by association unfortunately.

I myself run one of America's drift teams. Truth of the matter is, if someone offered us a cash sponsorship, we would take it quite gladly. All the people talk about "selling out to the corporate machine". The fact of the matter is, the so called "corporate machine" is already here and imbedded into Drifting. We can either roll with it, or get rolled over by it. I for one will roll with it because running a drift team takes something called... hmm... what do they call that stuff? It's green... and made of paper... oh yeah... MONEY.

BUT... (I love adding "but") I am very heavily involved in grassroot drifting as well. I have attended 5 Drift Days and plan in drifting in as many as I can once I get my motor in my hachi (it's a secret... shhhh). We also have an amateur team that is going to attend most if not all of the grassroot events in our area. My personal goal is not to achieve professional glory... but to drift for fun at the amateur level and improve my driving skills.

So... my final opinion in all this rambling? Craig and RJ, thank you for posting your opinions and insight into everything. Redline TV is our only hope for a decent automotive show on television that our userbase can turn to for info and coverage. They just don't want it to turn into F&F type coverage. Courtney Day... I'm sorry my dear that you got in the crossfires. Again like RJ, guilt by association.

Just as a plea from myself, personally, and I'm sure from the rest of the userbase of drifting.com Let's make sure that Redline TV gets the real coverage, the interviews that count, the products that make the difference, and the indepth information that we as automotive fanatics crave. We don't need fluff, just the good stuff. Bring it, "bring it fast... bring it furious..." hahah sorry I just had to say that.

SilviaLove
07-09-2004, 09:54 AM
I like these recent posts...I don't have time to post all my thoughts but here are the most interesting. Altough, I don't who RJ is but like his attiutude in respect to approaching the subject matter on this thread, both negative and positive. Liberman, has posted some funny comments such FYI: In the mid 80's, I was street racing with my Datsun Z cars before any of you ever heard the term "import.", and then writting If you're dumb enough to participate in illegal activities, you're asking for it. This obviously very ignorate because all of us have made this mistake at one point in our lives, even you. Anyhow, I see that your trying to blow off steam but it seems with all this experience you would articulate your thoughts more professionally..

my 1 88 u
07-09-2004, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by JasperShowWRX


Just as a plea from myself, personally, and I'm sure from the rest of the userbase of drifting.com Let's make sure that Redline TV gets the real coverage, the interviews that count, the products that make the difference, and the indepth information that we as automotive fanatics crave. We don't need fluff, just the good stuff. Bring it, "bring it fast... bring it furious..." hahah sorry I just had to say that.

in a nutshell.

craiglieberman
07-09-2004, 10:07 AM
Awesome comments and feedback...exactly the REAL purpose of this thread. If I may counter on one point, let me offer that discounts and free parts are also sponsorships and the drifters, especially the APC guys, are fully funded for their travel and costs incurred with racing for APC. I'd call that a sponsorship, do you agree?

For my new friend, Silvia Love, you missed the point, bro:
My point was that if you participate in illegal activities, you deserve what you get and that it would be silly for me to comment about illegal street racing had I never had actual experiences with it. Please note the comment I made about "I've paid my dues in blood, sweat, experience and traffic tickets." Been there, done that. Never blamed a movie or anyone else for my own actions, though. By the way, I use to smoke, too, k? ;) and while I don't condemn it, I do find it ridiculous when people sue tobacco companies...not taking responsibility for one's own actions is something a little sily to me. Hope I'm a little clearer on that point now.

As for being professional, I have been....but others get to talk trash and cast ignorant assumptions and aspersions? Sorry, I can express my views in response in the same manner as they were projected. If someone is professional and courteous, expect a similar reply. If they talk trash, don't expect a polite, sympathetic response.

Respect begets respect.

96AudiBoi
07-09-2004, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by yarzan
the only guy i can remember that really dissagread with the rest of us was that noob audi guy... he was instantly shot down, corrected, and put back in his place.

Shot down? Aww sucks for me. I was put in my place by 3 or 4 adolescent forum junkies with no open mind.

Dude, nobody challenged my argument because it's so *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*ing true. I searched the 1st 10 profiles on this thread and most were born after 1985!!!! Did further searching and found even younger.
Some of these comments are pure comedy.

How do you expect any of us to take you guys seriously? You people need to open your minds and lose the ignorance. It's JUST a TV show.

I can't believe myself or even the 2 car gurus RJ and Craig are wasting our time with you guys.
Any logical person is going to see the points made by 2 people who have made careers out of this and have proven experience over random young forum whore know it all's.

I'll say it again, just CHANGE THE CHANNEL.

my 1 88 u
07-09-2004, 10:10 AM
to 96AudiBoi

what does drifting mean to you? simple question.

pita bread
07-09-2004, 10:15 AM
Please stay on topic. Use Private Messages or start a new thread if needed.

CRASHDRIVE
07-09-2004, 10:15 AM
*Clap-Clap* mr Rj. Well Said!

I have my own point of view though.

Personally, I am not lucky enough work around the Automotive Industry, I work in the computer industry. I use driving/Fixing my car and drifting more of a hobby and I love it! I go out (whenever I can) to Qualcomm and participate in that SCCA practice days (the one that you pay 25-50 to race around the cones, cheap i know) and practice drifting (in not going to mention where, but ill just say DriftDay)

Now Im all for it, the fact that the Aftermarket Industry is growing and more parts are being developed is great. But the "by product" of this "cause and effect" is what the majority is worried about. Take a look at the following links.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20040629-1703-streetrace.html
http://www.sacbee.com/content/community_news/citrus_heights/story/9912327p-10834356c.html
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&edition=us&ie=UTF-8&q=street+racing&btnG=Search+News&start=10&sa=N
dont tell me that doesn't make you sick. I know it's bad to not race on the streets, but who's trying to set an example? Hollywood with their FnF scene?

I think majority of the people here just wants the truth to be told, without the glamour and "bling, blings". Personally I just want to see Redline TV to show that it's not all about the high-life, fun-times, babes, and money. The real people behind the car is what really matters (my .2cents).

Im just going to add a few examples from other shows.
SportsCarRevolution - They have a project Acura and they built and test it all the time. AND the guy from Car&Driver always say not to race on the streets (now that's cool!)

2guysGarage - Always showing good tips on how to TUNE your car right. Take care of it correctly. and what's new in the industry. (well just the basics)

Now if the "GENERAL PUBLIC" (the one that RedLine TV is targeting) was educated (ex: DriftDays, Track Practices, etc) I think they'll be more interested on going out to the track to test their limits thus helping the industry to grow more and help the community at the same time. I think the whole fundamentals of the Import Scene/Tuning will be lost in the pool of news such as above (Bad Media) if there are no examples of these. (Just got an Idea, why not interview some regular joe, thats trying to get their best to become great in racing/drifting).

I dont know about the others, But I hate the fact that im threated as some pimpled teenager just because i drive a modified car (that's been mod the right way) Or looked down by others (others means non-automotive enthusiast) because i dont drive a nice painted car.

my 2 change. That's my opinion and ill stick by it! ha ha

STFUAD
07-09-2004, 10:17 AM
Craig, definitely, they are sponsorships and we LOVE them, but if you read my post I was referring to "CASH SPONSORSHIPS". You were talking about "checks". We never get checks, just fantastic product. No worries, you probably just missed that part, it was a big post. Anyways, take care everyone... off to Sonoma for Formula Drift round 3! See you there!

rjdevera
07-09-2004, 10:20 AM
Thanks for the comments guys. I completely understand where you guys are coming from. I was onced an import junkie who cared for nothing but imports but as I get older and wiser - I start to respect all types of tuning from euro cars to american muscle (which I am finally accepting) to exotic machines. From rally cars to Formula 1 open wheelers to touge monsters. Yes, I am guilty of grouping most things automotive together. I've just seen to many things around this world and shared the passion with so many people - I can't help it. I learn so much from so many different people.

I have to say that some people in this forum are brutal but like I said it's not that I don't understand. I know that this is a drifting site and appauled people for the passion that they embody. Some people just get me so worked up. Sorry to have gone on some off the tread topics. As you'll notice I will be the thorn on everyones side that will ask everyone to look beyond the world that they hold so dear. I truly believe thinking this way will bring about new light. For example I think all road racers should learn and practice drifting and do some go karting and vice versa, as IMHO, this all aids in being better drivers (whatever your main focus is).

To Jasper. Best of luck with the team. You guys bring out some really good drivers. I hope you join you at some of the drift days to just learn and enjoy the sport of drifting. Now if I could just make the days longer and get more time.

Don't mind being the red headed step child. That's usually the case...

96AudiBoi
07-09-2004, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by spock
A good host would be someone like this:

Seriously.

Oh for sure!! haha

Host A -
http://www.z28evans.com/images/derrick%20trophy.jpg

or Host B -
http://216.55.128.43/strevda/courtneyday/images/events/D1GP/large/dd3.jpg
http://www.hotimportdaze.com/images/summerrides2.jpg

Sorry dudes, but like someone was talking about *Censored**Censored**Censored* tendencies, I'll be going with Host B !!!

rjdevera
07-09-2004, 10:30 AM
To all drifters competing at Formula Drift in Sonoma - BEST OF LUCK. Have a great competition.

Go DAI Go. I hope my boy Yoshihara kicks all your asses. LOL.

No go out there and use up some rubber!

my 1 88 u
07-09-2004, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by rjdevera
For example I think all road racers should learn and practice drifting and do some go karting and vice versa, as IMHO, this all aids in being better drivers (whatever your main focus is).


And i think every driver should do the same for that same reason of becoming better drivers. how can this happen? By pushing for a culture that represents just that. So all i ask is that is done right this time.

96AudiBoi
07-09-2004, 10:50 AM
I just realized when Jasper posted, this IS a Drifting forum, and I should respect that. It's kinda like preaching to an Atheist here.

I'm more into other things besides Drifting. I like the car shows, the races, meets, autocross, etc.

My mind is OPEN to a bunch of things. You guys should try it. Just because some of your lives revolve around Drifting, doesn't mean everything else sucks and it's all about Drifting or nothing else.

Quoted from SpikeTV.com -
A new sport compact and drifting show on Spike TV; Redline TV is the real deal. We drift with the best and drive with the pros. We battle and race tunerís cars and we experience taking a car to the limits... Redline TV.

It said Sport Compact people, guess what that means? Your going to get more than just a drifting audience. Why can't we share the love for all the aspects of the import scene?

And whats with the hate from that one dude on Courtney Day? Damn lay off the girl man. Like someone was saying she's just doing her job. So much hate here! Just because your not into show cars doesn't mean other people don't like it. Any girl with a hot ride should be praised, not hated. CALM DOWN people!

SilviaLove
07-09-2004, 10:54 AM
offtopic: Sorry dudes, but like someone was talking about *Censored**Censored**Censored* tendencies, I'll be going with Host B !!! ha...stop thinking with your "member" and grasp the concept we have all proposed, creditability..Besides, the Liberman said their sticking with her so your and friends can sit and gawk at her all you want. Also, just because there people younger than you posting on this board it doesn't necessarily mean that they are less inferior than you. I know at least one that could drive/drift well and has decent racing knowledge.

ontopic:
And i think every driver should do the same for that same reason of becoming better drivers. how can this happen? By pushing for a culture that represents just that. So all i ask is that is done right this time. damn str8...

nissanguy_24
07-09-2004, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by 96AudiBoi
Shot down? Aww sucks for me. I was put in my place by 3 or 4 adolescent forum junkies with no open mind.

Dude, nobody challenged my argument because it's so *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*ing true. I searched the 1st 10 profiles on this thread and most were born after 1985!!!! Did further searching and found even younger.
Some of these comments are pure comedy.

How do you expect any of us to take you guys seriously? You people need to open your minds and lose the ignorance. It's JUST a TV show.

I can't believe myself or even the 2 car gurus RJ and Craig are wasting our time with you guys.
Any logical person is going to see the points made by 2 people who have made careers out of this and have proven experience over random young forum whore know it all's.

I'll say it again, just CHANGE THE CHANNEL.


I challanged your opinion, quite well i might add. You implied that the model and such was nessisary to brodem the apeal of the show. i coutner argued with this statement.

Originally posted by nissanguy_24
I shall...

You said abunch of your friends watched it because of the model, thus WE need sex appeal in it.... Why? so your friends who dont like drifitng will watch a show based on it? then what? rush out and buy drift spec suspension components for there SUVs and pickups or something?

A show about drifting needs to market to drifters or else it has no audience.


See the thing is, Drifters dont need NON Drifters in drifting. Theres nothing for them to do. If they arent interested in drifting them self, or watching others drift, then whats the point? at that point it just becomes a car show doesnt? And the adolecent comment was just cheap.. Im 21 and yeah a forum junkie, so sue me. This forum is open to the public anyone may sign up, be they 13 or 50.

Maybe its easier to argue and put them down then to discuss things with the adults and intelegent members of the forum. Heres my question to you, "Are you a drifter?" because if you dont drift then you really have no right to speak on it. Yeah things may sound great to an outsider but alot of us have very different opinions then the focus groups and discussion panels seem to think. We dont need guys drifting up only to open moutain dew and yell "DRIFT THE DEW" in order for us to like drifting.


Let me rephrase that... We dont need and dont want it.

Now, i can understand and respect if your into other things that is fine. However you did come to a drifting forum to post in a thread about what drifters thought about a show on drifting.

Your opinion is interesting as an outsider or none drifters opinion however in MY opinion they should base this show around what drifters want! i mean what if they put on a euro car show and desided they needed to target American muscle car fans? it would be kind of silly. And im sure you guys would be pretty xenophobic if we came on going "Damn show needs more driftn!" (we say that but everything by the way)


Now the bulk of my arguement here is aimed at the aparently ubiquitous lieberman. First thing is first. You claimed to be drifting back in the 80s when it was called powersliding. Eh i cringe when i hear people say that. Let me give you a link to help you and other new guys to the scene out. Its wrote by a very nice and intelegent drifter out in hawaii. http://www.powerslideways.com/powersliding.htm

Now Mister Leiberman i have to admit every time you post i seem to like you less and less. First of all it seems like you cant stop talking about how great you are. How cool and rich you've become How much money you have. How much "success" you have. Sir if you have been drifting as long as you claim then you obviously are that bad element of drifting im always talking about. Hell Ernie Fixmer and Alex Pfeiffer who have every right to be cocky about there skill, post on here, and seem down right humble (if not very humble) next to you.

You need to understand that in drifting your respected not for the money you have, not for how many expensive cars you have, or how much you can afford to put into a car (like the show car scene) it all comes down to if you can drive or not. Tossing your so called success around just pisses people off. I know in my mind... and as ignorant as it may seem i knew very little of you before this started and had no negative feelings.... You seemed nice enough at first but every post that went by you seemed to get worse and worse. Frankly your attitude doesnt agree with me.

Lieberman you claim to be one of us but you are so clearly not, your list of cars.. hell it doesnt even include a japanese car. And though i can deffenately respect our brothers in the eurocar scene and apreciate and respect the vehichles its hardly an inexpensive rwd car. And sence your all about the tuner market, its hardly a tuner car! Its just an expensive car. Hell for the cost of that vehichle you could easily keep a "tuner car" or a "drift" car in your garage for next to nothing more. No mater how wealthy i may become i think i will always have my 240sx with me. Its just a love of the car you know? i hope you can understand that, because if you can then we arent so different after all. However if your attitude is "Dude i can get more chicks with my porsche sell the little nissan." Then clearly you are very different then my self, and indeed most drifters you will run into. I hope the second is not true.

Mainly what bugs me is you keep mentioning how things wouldnt be where they were today with out fast and the furious or this and that.. stuff that you worked on i supose. You make it sound like if it wasnt for you we all wouldnt be sitting here today. In otherwords the implication is your god's gift to our sport. And that drifter NEEDS you the way show car and drag racers NEEDED you to make the fast and the furious. Or some nonesense like that.

The fact is drifitng doenst need anything or anyone. It especialy doesnt need outsiders trying to advance it. See the thing you need to understand is very few of us drift in order to go pro. We drift for fun. We will drift now and we will drift in 10 years, regardless of anything else. Drifting will go on. Drifters dont need events and television shows or movies. That means any of those things are icying on the cake. And if you dont like the icying it can easily ruin the cake. Because extra media attention becomes just that Extra, we try to make sure if its going to be there that its acurate. Hell we have even corrected a new york times artical on this site and had a correction printed.

Basicly if your going to do something about drifting do it right or dont do it at all. None of us need you in this sport. So if your going to be here grab a S13 or something go to a track and practice. But dont tell us we should be lucky your here. Why dont you go and look up the "Christian Rado says drifting is easy thread" To see how to make a bad impression in the drifting world. You know i feel bad for rado and i know hes now trying to correct that error, the only way you can... with seat time! And its very admirable but man that artical was like a big foot in his mouth.

You will no doubt have a sharp reply to this, Go ahead and feel free to.

my 1 88 u
07-09-2004, 11:32 AM
http://wheredamoviezat.com/qstats.php/0c08fb8bdbef245f81eb804f4ecd59daf09303bd

torrent of the first show

'97 S14 SE Turb
07-09-2004, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by rjdevera


Since I'm a newbie - I'll just give a quick introduction. I'm RJ de Vera. Most people call me aarrjj. I was the one that managed the build up of the "*Censored**Censored**Censored* Pepsi Evo" as one of you put it. Yes I'd like to build a drift car for myself but not to compete - just to go out have fun and learn more about car control. (Maybe I should make it a Pepsi one, LOL) I'm actually in love with road racing and because I really need some work there - I believe drifting would greatly aid me being a better driver. :D

RJ,

from a road racer who gotten into drifting, that thinking is very correct. Drifting has definelty made my grip driving skill much better. I find myself pushing the car closer and on the edge of it's limits after being over the limit while drifting...

kaitokid21
07-09-2004, 12:18 PM
mm i can't wait till satuday lol should be interesting

yarzan
07-09-2004, 12:35 PM
yo nissanguy, just wanna say thnx for backing me up, brotha.

Ziptyed
07-09-2004, 01:18 PM
This is a little off topic, but I'm 16 years old and got my license a week ago. I've had my 89 240 for about a month, but for the last week, I've been practicing for no less than 4 hours a day, every day, working on shifting the weight to induce a drift. Since it's an automatic there's not a whole lot I can do but I do what I can with what I have. I have saved every penny since I was 10 for my first car btw. I have spent two whole paychecks on just tires, and I am know working odd jobs just so I can Pay for Insurance + tires. So don't say that just because people weren't born before 1985 that we have no say. Sometimes I can't even go to sleep because I think about what my car will become in time. So in ending I say that I'm proud of my car. I't may be slow, auto, whatever, but i'm proud.

spock
07-09-2004, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by rjdevera

BTW - when did all the people tuning their cars become all thugs. I mean there are a number of them out there but they are not the majority. I think some of you have fallen and believe all the media stereotypes which is exactly what you don't want to happen to "your drifting scene". How do you expect people not to stereo type you guys if you are doing it yourself.
These media stereotypes are the kinds these shows sell out to. At least that's what I've from nearly everything the American media has done when they cover the "import scene." And that includes everything from the Fast and Furious movies to Super 2ner TV. That's the impression most of us on here have of Redline TV from everything we've seen so far.

Ripper
07-09-2004, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by yarzan
yo nissanguy, just wanna say thnx for backing me up, brotha.

i second that. *reference to nissanguy.

craiglieberman
07-09-2004, 03:37 PM
Quote: Lieberman you claim to be one of us but you are so clearly not, your list of cars.. hell it doesnt even include a japanese car. And though i can deffenately [sic] respect our brothers in the eurocar scene and apreciate [sic]and respect the vehichles its hardly an inexpensive rwd car. And sence [sic] your[sic] all about the tuner market, its hardly [sic]a tuner car! End quote.

I found this portion of your thread difficult to understand....but this section, like the rest of your post, seem to harp on your belief that I'm trying to be something I'm not.

Quite the contrary; what I have been trying to communicate is that I have BEEN THERE, DONE THAT. If you don't think sliding a 240Z around canyon roads in 1986 is the same as Touge today, you're out in left field. My point was, I DID IT ALREADY and I believe this, among other experiences, make me qualified to consult for so many companies. I hope one day you are afforded the same opportunities.

By my own admission, I'm at a different point in my life than most drifters. European cars and more upscale brands are my current preference. I'm not telling you what cars I own to impress anyone, I relayed this point because I felt it proves that as car geeks get older, we still love nice cars. I don't claim to be one of you, I claim to have come from a similar background and to prove that I have paid my dues. It pisses ME off when young people think they've done everything and know everything at 21.

As for the fellow who says he'll still have a 240 in his garage in 20 years: yeah, sure. In 20 years, you'll most assuredly be able to buy any car you want, and most tend to want to broaden your horizons but we ARE alike in the sense that like me, you most likely enjoy the punch that only a turbo'd car can provide...your taste just gets a little more expensive as you mature, trust me.

As for the gentlemen who said "you don't even own a Japanese car,", umm, hello? Been there, done that, too. Owned a Supra and a Skyline. Now I gotta buy a $6000 to prove I'm cool? Great, I'll take a dozen...scratch that, I like mine with air conditioning, and most drift cars don't have a/c anymore ;-) I noticed no one bothered to answer my questions about their age, or their credentials, nor do they even post under their real name, yet they're supposed to be credible because they post on a forum?

To be blunt, as one fellow pointed out, Redline is NOT 100% about drifting; it is designed to expose a wide range of people to the PERFORMANCE aspects of the tuner world. Drifting is a MINISCULE part of the tuner performance world. All of the drifting events outside of D1GP have drawn very modest sized audiences.

Is it cool? Hell yes, and I love every minute of it and I'm glad we're covering it. Hell, we show your boy Alex Pfeiffer.

I am astonished and mortified that so many people aren't more ecstatic to see drifting covered on a REAL network and as in depth as we are.

I did not come into this forum searching for opinions, I came to respond to bogus assumptions, myths, misinformation and questions.

You may want to consider this: without sponsors, and without the creators of this program, there would currently be ZERO coverage of your beloved drifting on American TV. Tragic that few realize this. With respect to Super2NR and other import programming, trust me when I tell you that even though some of us liked it, most did not, and it was pulled from the air. Clearly, something was wrong (although for the record, I thought some of the content was great).

Again, you're free to get your company to sponsor and create a TV program...if you think you can do it better and make money, tell me what channel to watch. Its' easy to sit back from a computer and cast aspersions when you don't grasp the big picture which includes logistics, network TV requirements, the ability to sell programming, sponsorship relationships, etc.

You don't think we wanted to show touge? You think any sponsor would buy commercials on a TV program showcasing illegal activities? You think anyone would be dumb enough to allow their secret spot to be revealed on camera? You don't think we wanted to go to Japan and cover cars on a Japanese road? Did you even notice that unlike other sponsors, MagnaFlow freely allowed competitor's logos to remain visible. Why? We wanted to cover the whole sport.

There's a lot going on behind the scenes that you nothing about.

Look, if you don't like or my cars, great....at least be smart enough to MEET me before you say you hate me...makes you look less narrow minded.

For Ziptyed, let me just say that you are EXACTLY the type of viewer we want: the passionate who don't hate, they love...they love the sport and all things associated with it.

To Jasper: make us proud, guys. Hopefully, Redline will catch up with you next season.

So tune in this week and send your hate emails to me, clieberman@magnaflow.com

snowblind
07-09-2004, 04:07 PM
craig and rj, I didnt mean to attack you personaly, I dont know you guys, your right craig, sorry.

As for the rest, your assuming that we want you here. You talk about respect and then attack nissanguys spelling?!?! he's the guy around here we respect. I still thing drifting will get blinged out, and that suck IN MY OPINION.

Drifting is not a miniscule part or our performance world, what do you think we would talk about on DRIFTING.com?

yarzan
07-09-2004, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by craiglieberman
Quote: Lieberman you claim to be one of us but you are so clearly not, your list of cars.. hell it doesnt even include a japanese car. And though i can deffenately [sic] respect our brothers in the eurocar scene and apreciate [sic]and respect the vehichles its hardly an inexpensive rwd car. And sence [sic] your[sic] all about the tuner market, its hardly [sic]a tuner car! End quote.

I found this portion of your thread difficult to understand....but this section, like the rest of your post, seem to harp on your belief that I'm trying to be something I'm not.

Quite the contrary; what I have been trying to communicate is that I have BEEN THERE, DONE THAT. If you don't think sliding a 240Z around canyon roads in 1986 is the same as Touge today, you're out in left field. My point was, I DID IT ALREADY and I believe this, among other experiences, make me qualified to consult for so many companies. I hope one day you are afforded the same opportunities.

By my own admission, I'm at a different point in my life than most drifters. European cars and more upscale brands are my current preference. I'm not telling you what cars I own to impress anyone, I relayed this point because I felt it proves that as car geeks get older, we still love nice cars. I don't claim to be one of you, I claim to have come from a similar background and to prove that I have paid my dues. It pisses ME off when young people think they've done everything and know everything at 21.

As for the fellow who says he'll still have a 240 in his garage in 20 years: yeah, sure. In 20 years, you'll most assuredly be able to buy any car you want, and most tend to want to broaden your horizons but we ARE alike in the sense that like me, you most likely enjoy the punch that only a turbo'd car can provide...your taste just gets a little more expensive as you mature, trust me.

As for the gentlemen who said "you don't even own a Japanese car,", umm, hello? Been there, done that, too. Owned a Supra and a Skyline. Now I gotta buy a $6000 to prove I'm cool? Great, I'll take a dozen...scratch that, I like mine with air conditioning, and most drift cars don't have a/c anymore ;-) I noticed no one bothered to answer my questions about their age, or their credentials, nor do they even post under their real name, yet they're supposed to be credible because they post on a forum?

To be blunt, as one fellow pointed out, Redline is NOT 100% about drifting; it is designed to expose a wide range of people to the PERFORMANCE aspects of the tuner world. Drifting is a MINISCULE part of the tuner performance world. All of the drifting events outside of D1GP have drawn very modest sized audiences.

Is it cool? Hell yes, and I love every minute of it and I'm glad we're covering it. Hell, we show your boy Alex Pfeiffer.

I am astonished and mortified that so many people aren't more ecstatic to see drifting covered on a REAL network and as in depth as we are.

I did not come into this forum searching for opinions, I came to respond to bogus assumptions, myths, misinformation and questions.

You may want to consider this: without sponsors, and without the creators of this program, there would currently be ZERO coverage of your beloved drifting on American TV. Tragic that few realize this. With respect to Super2NR and other import programming, trust me when I tell you that even though some of us liked it, most did not, and it was pulled from the air. Clearly, something was wrong (although for the record, I thought some of the content was great).

Again, you're free to get your company to sponsor and create a TV program...if you think you can do it better and make money, tell me what channel to watch. Its' easy to sit back from a computer and cast aspersions when you don't grasp the big picture which includes logistics, network TV requirements, the ability to sell programming, sponsorship relationships, etc.

You don't think we wanted to show touge? You think any sponsor would buy commercials on a TV program showcasing illegal activities? You think anyone would be dumb enough to allow their secret spot to be revealed on camera? You don't think we wanted to go to Japan and cover cars on a Japanese road? Did you even notice that unlike other sponsors, MagnaFlow freely allowed competitor's logos to remain visible. Why? We wanted to cover the whole sport.

There's a lot going on behind the scenes that you nothing about.

Look, if you don't like or my cars, great....at least be smart enough to MEET me before you say you hate me...makes you look less narrow minded.

For Ziptyed, let me just say that you are EXACTLY the type of viewer we want: the passionate who don't hate, they love...they love the sport and all things associated with it.

To Jasper: make us proud, guys. Hopefully, Redline will catch up with you next season.

So tune in this week and send your hate emails to me, clieberman@magnaflow.com

first of all, i know that i will have my first car with me always, 97 auto camry. i think thats what he meant by him still having the 240.

No AC? who cares! it saves weight.

im 17, i wont reveal my real name, ive drifted a car slightly and it scared the sh*t outta me, but i love watching it. ive been to 2 drift days and the feb D1.

well if u dont want our opinions, which is what a lot of this stuff is, than how do u plan on improving the show? i thought it was for drifters by drifters, if u dont know what they like/dislike how will you make it for drifters?

i dont hate you, i just dont like whats happened to the import car culture after FnF, and i dont want the same to happen to drifting.

god for magnaflow... i dont tihnk anyone cares. displaying other peoples logos doesnt reveal all the aspects of it still.

my 2 cents.

EDIT
P.S. I dont care about nissaguys spelling... if i get his point thats good enough for me.

craiglieberman
07-09-2004, 04:24 PM
Snowblind: I didn't attack his spelling, I pointed those out because invariably, someone will blame me for it....it happens on every freakin' forum.

You respect NissanGuy, that's fine...but why? Because he was on this board before I was? Because he drifts now, even though I did it 18 years ago? Because he's "one of us?" Doesn't make him or anyone else right or even credible and being the longest standing member of a chat board doesn't provide credibility.

Utterly bewildering.

Express opinions, fine....but qualify them as that, opinions. Kudos to you for expressing your very real opinion that drifting will get blinged out. I respect your opinion.

Isn't the whole point of this thread to give constructive feedback? Yet we're supposed to tolerate the views displayed here, from people who have not provided any shred of evidence as to their credibility with no other support than "I was here first so I must be right?"

Offering criticisms based on nonsensical opinions of people with no real background, experience or even (in some cases) a shred of respect is not helping make the program better, its' discrediting those who choose to engage in such activity.

And drifting IS a miniscule part of the tuner performance world...I know its' a bigger portion of Drifting.com's world, but in the grand scheme of the $3.2B tuner market, its' a tiny, tiny piece of the pie (although a delicious piece).

Guys...if you want to help, may I suggest the following:

Here's what I don't like:
Here's how I'd like to see if fixed:

Wow! Wouldn't that be cool?

We'll do our part, you do yours. Or not.

nissanguy_24
07-09-2004, 04:32 PM
First of all I never tried to hide who i am. Most people here know me by name. I am Robert Hale of Bakersfield, California i am 21 years of age. I drive a white 240sx coupe. My credentials? i supose that would be drifting for close to a year and a half.

I dont claim to be the drift king but i claim to be exactly what most of us on here are. Grass roots drifters, with out enough money to buy expensive european cars. I scrape money together for tires and repairs so i can keep doing what i like to do. I, like most drifters, participate in illegal activities and i admit so with out hesitation. This is the nature of the beast that you have chosen to make a show about. Remember for drifters by drifters?


Originally posted by craiglieberman

but this section, like the rest of your post, seem to harp on your belief that I'm trying to be something I'm not.

Quite the contrary; what I have been trying to communicate is that I have BEEN THERE, DONE THAT..


....I don't claim to be one of you, I claim to have come from a similar background and to prove that I have paid my dues. It pisses ME off when young people think they've done everything and know everything at 21.



Yeah im sure you've been there and done that. So for drifters by drifters? so who are these drifters its by? i think you just picked up on the newest trend and desided to grace our presence with your self. We dont need or want you.

Originally posted by craiglieberman

As for the fellow who says he'll still have a 240 in his garage in 20 years: yeah, sure. In 20 years, you'll most assuredly be able to buy any car you want, and most tend to want to broaden your horizons but we ARE alike in the sense that like me, you most likely enjoy the punch that only a turbo'd car can provide...your taste just gets a little more expensive as you mature, trust me.


You obviously dont love a car like i love the S13. I will always have one in my garage. My taste arent based on whats comfortable or what will impress people my taste are based on a honest to goodness love of the Nissan S13. Thats why im a Nissan guy.

Originally posted by craiglieberman

As for the gentlemen who said "you don't even own a Japanese car,", umm, hello? Been there, done that, too. Owned a Supra and a Skyline. Now I gotta buy a $6000 to prove I'm cool? Great, I'll take a dozen...scratch that, I like mine with air conditioning, and most drift cars don't have a/c anymore ;-) I noticed no one bothered to answer my questions about their age, or their credentials, nor do they even post under their real name, yet they're supposed to be credible because they post on a forum?


Wow a supra and a skyline! oh wow im so impressed. Not only do i look up to you now, but i realize your just one of us! we all have a Supra (mark IV im sure..) and Skyline (R34 no doubt) in our garages!

Thats sarcasm by the way, incase you find that hard to pick up on.

Originally posted by craiglieberman

To be blunt, as one fellow pointed out, Redline is NOT 100% about drifting; it is designed to expose a wide range of people to the PERFORMANCE aspects of the tuner world. Drifting is a MINISCULE part of the tuner performance world. All of the drifting events outside of D1GP have drawn very modest sized audiences....


For drifters by Drifters... How about by Craig for Craig's wallet. Anything to be the "originator" of a new trend right? thats why your in all this right? you want to be able to claim you brought this to the mainstream, the same way you did with fast and the furious. Because that deffenately seems to be the case.

Originally posted by craiglieberman

....I am astonished and mortified that so many people aren't more ecstatic to see drifting covered on a REAL network and as in depth as we are.


That doesnt surprise me in the slightest! you aparently seem to think we should all be grateful! oh yeah the great lieberman visited our little site and desided to make something of our little game we play called drifting! i cant wait!

Originally posted by craiglieberman

I did not come into this forum searching for opinions, I came to respond to bogus assumptions, myths, misinformation and questions.


Then get the hell out. If you wont listen to drifter's opinions of your 'drifting show' then your not a very good producer type guy are you? That or the show is obviously just a sell out. This is the largest drifting website you should be apealing to these young kids you put down, they will be the ones buying your sponsors goods in the future. You need them, not the other way around. I hope your sponsors see this and realize how negatively we are now viewing this show. Mainly due to your comments.

Originally posted by craiglieberman

You may want to consider this: without sponsors, and without the creators of this program, there would currently be ZERO coverage of your beloved drifting on American TV. Tragic that few realize this. With respect to Super2NR and other import programming, trust me when I tell you that even though some of us liked it, most did not, and it was pulled from the air. Clearly, something was wrong (although for the record, I thought some of the content was great)....


Im glad you mentioned sponsors because your right. You dont seem to get it though. We do not need drifting on TV. Your show was going to be considered only a bonus nothing more if it was good. But its becomming obvious that the promise of a show for drifters by drifters is not true. I will not view this program nor will i buy any products from your sponsors. I will ask my friends to do the same, i doubt it will be hard to convence them at this point. You need to understand we dont need or want you in drifting.

Originally posted by craiglieberman

....Look, if you don't like or my cars, great....at least be smart enough to MEET me before you say you hate me...makes you look less narrow minded.



Sir i am very happy i've never had the displeasure. I hope to keep it that way. If our correspondents arent enough to understand what a miserable man you are in your mind, Then thats fine, but its enough for me.


Originally posted by craiglieberman

So tune in this week and send your hate emails to me, clieberman@magnaflow.com

No thank you.. And Magnaflow i hope you see this thread and see what real drifters think, Perhaps you will put your money elseware. Maybe you can get with a drifting team and sponsor them. Thats the best way to get your name out there trust me.


Oh yes and Lieberman you dont understand why yarzan or others respect me? it has nothing to do with how long i've been here or even my post count or skill level. However its clear they respect me for having qualities you dont understand.

Your line about us hiding behind a webforum is bull. I hide from no one, nor have i ever made my identity a secret. That is why i put my response there first thing on this reply.

- Robert Dwayne Hale

PS: Why are you on here anyways? none of us are going to suddenly like you, infact you've made alot more people mad with your attitude including me who was originally nuetral to you.. Why dont you just go and ruin someone else's sport. I hear time attack is getting big in japan.

yarzan
07-09-2004, 04:49 PM
nissanguy, couldnt have said it better myself

craig: here's a hint: STOP! youre getting more and more ppl to hate you. seriously youve lost a LOT of my respect in the past few days. coming in here thinking that because u owned a supra and a GTR u think that u can take responsibility for drifting. another thing, pal, people in Japan have been doing it waaaaay before 1986, and im sure there were a few here in the states that did it too.

spock
07-09-2004, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by craiglieberman
And drifting IS a miniscule part of the tuner performance world...I know its' a bigger portion of Drifting.com's world, but in the grand scheme of the $3.2B tuner market, its' a tiny, tiny piece of the pie (although a delicious piece).

I think this is what people are trying to get:
Redline TV is supposed to be a show geared towards performance, right? If you're going to cover things like NOPI Nats and HIN, it's really nothing but show cars, and performance tends to be a MINISCULE part of the show car equation. Now I haven't been following the "import scene" here in America lately, but I'm assuming the majority of the people making up the tuner market are the ones wanting to flaunt their egos and pour tons of money into their cars and are more concerned with decibels than horsepower. You say this show will use drifting as a backdrop and is "for drifters by drifters", or something like that, and performance-minded enthusiast, your supposed audience, could care less about a vomit-colored Honda with jDM tYtE Saliva (yes it's spelled wrong) front end. You say we should be thrilled to have a tuner show on network tv and yet from what we've seen and what's been said it's just like every pile of crap that came before it. So what it basically boils down to is if you can make something along the lines of BMI or Option, keep it down to earth and keep far, far away from anything fast and furious you'll have a winner.

Ziptyed
07-09-2004, 05:02 PM
EXACTLY.

craiglieberman
07-09-2004, 05:18 PM
Quote: Most people here know me by name. I am Robert Hale of Bakersfield, California i am 21 years of age. I drive a white 240sx coupe. My credentials? i supose that would be drifting for close to a year and a half. I dont claim to be the drift king but i claim to be exactly what most of us on here are. Grass roots drifters, with out enough money to buy expensive european cars. I scrape money together for tires and repairs so i can keep doing what i like to do. End

My friend, how are you missing my point that I too shared a similar background? I too struggled with no money and a mediocre car. I've been there. With all due respect, you posted your name only because I mentioned whereas I post in such a manner from the outset and have gone a step further in outlining my background. You'll forgive me if I've questioned your credentials and again, with all due respect, let us just agree that I've covered a few more miles than you have.

The comedy here is that people like you come and go and I've debated hundreds of people like you on forums. Most are gone in 2-3 years. I'm still here 22 years into the game. Why? I understand more than you may think, I work only for clients who make/sell quality products and I make my clients money.

It seems our fundamental difference is that you think I (we) are trying to exploit people....in fact, we're trying to showcase the immense talent and passion of these people. Hell, if you came up to us tomorrow at a drift event and had an exciting story tell, chances are it'd be your face on the tube.

Quote: i think you just picked up on the newest trend and desided to grace our presence with your self. We dont need or want you. End.

You're not reading my original posts about the program's goal or content. As for picking up on the newest trend, I'm very proud that the sponsors have decided to showcase this exciting new sport to the world, because IWE TOO LOVE IT and the sponsors believe its' worthy of showcasing. I'm sure some sponsors might be MORE concerned at the lack of maturity showcased by SOME members of this forum in particular, but hey, we all take forums for what they are: bathroom walls.

Quote: You obviously dont love a car like i love the S13. I will always have one in my garage. My taste arent based on whats comfortable or what will impress people my taste are based on a honest to goodness love of the Nissan S13. Thats why im a Nissan guy. End.

Wrong again...I've loved many cars and to quote you from earlier, loving cars doesn't make you a purist...or even right. To discount the notion that I've owned top Japanese cars when you called me out for not owning Japanese cars in an earlier post is comical. Like I said, I need to own a 240SX to be 'cool' in this world? I'm not currently at that stage in my life.

Quote: For drifters by Drifters... How about by Craig for Craig's wallet. Anything to be the "originator" of a new trend right? thats why your in all this right? you want to be able to claim you brought this to the mainstream, the same way you did with fast and the furious. Because that deffenately seems to be the case. End quote.

Offensive, to say the least. In fact, I make ZERO from this show. NOT A PENNY! I'm doing for the love of the tuner industry and because I believe it'll be great someday. Like it or not, I'm part of a team that is in control of what you're watching. You'd THINK you'd want to spend perhaps just a moment giving some thoughtful views, but I'm happy to engage you in such a dialog so long as you try so hard to prove that you're right simply because you have had more posts than I.

Quote: That doesnt surprise me in the slightest! you aparently seem to think we should all be grateful! oh yeah the great lieberman visited our little site and desided to make something of our little game we play called drifting! i cant wait! End quote.

Not grateful but...how about supportive? Critical in a positive fashion? Any of these characteristics would be a welcome change from needless hostility.

Quote: hope your sponsors see this and realize how negatively we are now viewing this show. Mainly due to your comments. End quote.

Trust me....they're watching more closely the unprofessional demeanor of some of the same people that have contacted us privately by email for sponsorships. I know this may come as a surprise to you, but we've received dozens of emails praising us for our choice to support the tuner world with such programming, while other 'name brands' have done nothing but sell cheesy products to capitalize on the F&F craze. In fact, MagnaFlow and Modified believe so greatly in the importance of producing a quality program, they've funded it 100%. Where are the other brands? Lining their pockets? You be the judge.


Quote: No thank you.. And Magnaflow i hope you see this thread and see what real drifters think, Perhaps you will put your money elseware. Maybe you can get with a drifting team and sponsor them. Thats the best way to get your name out there trust me. End quote.

Is this your vast expertise talking? Do you even understand what is necessary to attract a sponsor, which of course is needed to run a pro team? And like it or not, sponsors are needed to go pro. FYI: To date, only a handful of US teams have committed to running a full season around the country. Going to a local drift event or 3-5 local drift dates does not make a pro team. Guys like Jasper Performance are doing it grassroots style...and my congrats....but a full national tour is what's needed to go pro and to attract sponsors. THAT'S what part of this show is about. Our target audience is NOT the drift fan with a cute avatar on a forum.

Quote: Oh yes and Lieberman you dont understand why yarzan or others respect me? it has nothing to do with how long i've been here or even my post count or skill level. However its clear they respect me for having qualities you dont understand. End.

You're right...if being sarcastic and disrespectful is among those qualities, I don't understand. But I'd be willing to bet that most people on this forum respect people like Alex who has played with the big boys...and who refrains from posting trash on forums.

There's a guy with a future in this sport.

nissanguy_24
07-09-2004, 05:38 PM
I knew you wouldnt understand why people respect me on this site.

With all due respect, you posted your name only because I mentioned whereas I post in such a manner from the outset and have gone a step further in outlining my background.

I didnt sign up with my name no. However you need only check my profile to get that information With all due respect... which is absolutely zero in my book... you are simply being a jerk and trying to show us how much more you know about this sport then us.. yet you called drifting powersliding...

You mention alex has a future in this sport? My fear is there wont be a sport of drifting if you continue to infect it with your attitude and clouded vision for the future. And if your really an Alex supporter this show should be paying HIM to fix your little mess. It would give you a chunk of respectability. But alas the great Lieberman will never step aside and awknowledge someone else may be more knowledable

Your show wont market to us poor drifters on forums and such with our "cute little icons" thats fine We wont watch it.. Oh yes and your comment about these are the companys desiding what i watch? what the hell does that mean? i simply wont watch it, or ill put a option dvd in. its not a problem for me simply to turn off the TV.

The fact is most of your post is trash i dont feel like responding to because i feel others will anyways. So will you be paying the show for the loss of viewers and sponsorship dollars your costing them?

Im starting a boycott of this show. I will not watch it until Lieberman's connection with the show has ended AND a professional like Alex or someone else is appointed as a consultant. If anyone is following me with this please state so... needless to say im in the boycott.

yarzan
07-09-2004, 05:40 PM
why do I respect nissanguy? simply, because he has earned it! I dont repsect you (anymore) becaues you think you deserve it without any work here. If you would have come in humbly, like Stephan Papadakis, for example, he jsut posted a few pics of his 240 and was happy ot answer questions, than trhat might have been a different story. But the way you came in reminds me of the woderful Rado thread, look that thread up, you might learn something.

nissanguy_24
07-09-2004, 05:45 PM
I encourage everyone to check out this post.. http://www.drifting.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6083