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Toshihiko840
11-30-2003, 01:52 PM
I got a dodge stealth non- turbo. Its forward wheel drive. Drifting is hard for me but not impossible. I come on here ya know lookin for advice and all I see is noob bashing. Bashin here and there, left and right. Ya there are lots of peeps that are ricers, but let them be ricers, cause its not their fault they are retarded. Now down to my question, what constitutes a real drift? Ive seen so many crappy diagrams of foot work that im actually more confused now. lol. I got into it cause, I saw some ppl doing it and asked them about it, and they told me. Drifitng as Ive heard can be done in any car. But how? Ive managed a couple of versions on my own, but how do I know if they are correct? lol One more thing, If I like it, and i think its fun, and interesting, does that make me a ricer, noob, fanboy,loser, or anything else. Ive done research so Im not clueless.

panda_3ight_6
11-30-2003, 03:14 PM
honestly you cant do a REAL drift with out RWD... but you can do poweslides and side brake drifts with a FF, just pull the e brake on the entry of the drift and then steer through and viola!... well its not that easy but... you should get the idea...

CRASHDRIVE
11-30-2003, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by Toshihiko840
I got a dodge stealth non- turbo. Its forward wheel drive. Drifting is hard for me but not impossible. I come on here ya know lookin for advice and all I see is noob bashing. Bashin here and there, left and right. Ya there are lots of peeps that are ricers, but let them be ricers, cause its not their fault they are retarded. Now down to my question, what constitutes a real drift? Ive seen so many crappy diagrams of foot work that im actually more confused now. lol. I got into it cause, I saw some ppl doing it and asked them about it, and they told me. Drifitng as Ive heard can be done in any car. But how? Ive managed a couple of versions on my own, but how do I know if they are correct? lol One more thing, If I like it, and i think its fun, and interesting, does that make me a ricer, noob, fanboy,loser, or anything else. Ive done research so Im not clueless.

Personally I dont BASH newbies.. but IF a newbie starts drifting in a public road, thats when I will start bashing newbie..

FOR ME, Im not bashing because they're new into drifting. I bash them because of the LACK of responsiblity and common sense a wanna Be racer has. Look, its nice that you want to drift. But you better take some classes or drift in an empty... (EMPTY!) parking lot. Oh yeah by yourself. do not attract alot of people, because a crowd of cars will get you in trouble.


Oh yeah, make sure you have good suspension and A good brake system. When your in a turn. Pull the E-Brake about 2-3secs or just enough to loose the tracktion in the rear tires and turn your car to the direction you want to turn and then couter-steer the car.
Good Luck and Be SAFE
(dont consider this as BASHING)
just an FYI.

Feint
11-30-2003, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by panda_3ight_6
honestly you cant do a REAL drift with out RWD... but you can do poweslides and side brake drifts with a FF, just pull the e brake on the entry of the drift and then steer through and viola!... well its not that easy but... you should get the idea...

How do you powerslde an FF? No matter how much power you have to the wheels,you still can't slide it on sheer power.

Nightwalker
11-30-2003, 05:21 PM
to answer your question, a real drift is when the front and rear tires slide at the same time. The car is propelled sideways and moves sideways. Upon entering a corner, you should be sideways, not sideways when you exit. Thats as simple as I can put it. Most people mistake a power slide for drifting. There is a difference.

pascalz28
11-30-2003, 05:22 PM
you pull the e-brake bringing the rear wheels to a halt,
the front tires will keep spinning (FF) because you just
engaged the clutch at hight rpms

CrazyHawaiian
12-01-2003, 01:11 AM
You know you're doing some real drifting when the person riding shotgun cant stop screaming/yelling. :D

sobe
12-01-2003, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by CrazyHawaiian
You know you're doing some real drifting when the person riding shotgun cant stop screaming/yelling. :D

Maybe they are screaming because the person driving doesn't know what their doing and it might turn out to be a fatal car crash?

Drifting isn't as fun after you crash...

Drifting might be fun again if crash and survive.

ACDSupra7
12-01-2003, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by sobe
Maybe they are screaming because the person driving doesn't know what their doing and it might turn out to be a fatal car crash?

Drifting isn't as fun after you crash...

Drifting might be fun again if crash and survive.

Dude, drifting is always fun after you crash.

jboss
12-01-2003, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by panda_3ight_6
honestly you cant do a REAL drift with out RWD... but you can do poweslides and side brake drifts with a FF, just pull the e brake on the entry of the drift and then steer through and viola!... well its not that easy but... you should get the idea...

because most of you havent seen it before..........

Anything...ANYTHING.....anything...can be drifted. Dont let some egoistic rear drivers let you think that a car has to be rear drive to drift. I have drifted vans, suvs, toyota tercels, chevy cavaliers, vws, rx7's, subarus, jeeps, oldsmobiles, buicks, soab-box derby cars etc etc etc. They can ALL be drifted.

Drifting plain and simple is sliding sideways------nothing more nothing less----although being able to control the slide and sliding intentionally makes YOU a drifter.

Power slides ARE drifts, handbrake slides ARE drifts, sliding while coasting (no e-brake no throttle) IS a drift.

LSD's will NOT make you drift. You do not even need to be using the throttle to drift ANY car.

brakes and throttle and steering can be used in combination to control weight transfer to different wheels helping to induce a slide/drift BUT, it can usually be done with steering inputs alone in ANY car with TOTALLY STOCK suspension.

NEVER ever listen to anyone who tells you otherwise.

Nightwalker
12-01-2003, 11:31 PM
^most useless unintelligent post.

jboss
12-01-2003, 11:33 PM
unfortunately your I agree with your signature and nothing more

driftaholic
12-02-2003, 01:14 AM
a good idea and also somethin kinda funny is the board on here in the drifting section about can i drift a stock 240?
lolOWNAGE..

Chas
12-02-2003, 01:21 AM
Originally posted by jboss
unfortunately your I agree with your signature and nothing more

http://www.drifting.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=626

Akira714
12-02-2003, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by jboss
because most of you havent seen it before..........

Anything...ANYTHING.....anything...can be drifted. Dont let some egoistic rear drivers let you think that a car has to be rear drive to drift. I have drifted vans, suvs, toyota tercels, chevy cavaliers, vws, rx7's, subarus, jeeps, oldsmobiles, buicks, soab-box derby cars etc etc etc. They can ALL be drifted.

Drifting plain and simple is sliding sideways------nothing more nothing less----although being able to control the slide and sliding intentionally makes YOU a drifter.

Power slides ARE drifts, handbrake slides ARE drifts, sliding while coasting (no e-brake no throttle) IS a drift.

LSD's will NOT make you drift. You do not even need to be using the throttle to drift ANY car.

brakes and throttle and steering can be used in combination to control weight transfer to different wheels helping to induce a slide/drift BUT, it can usually be done with steering inputs alone in ANY car with TOTALLY STOCK suspension.

NEVER ever listen to anyone who tells you otherwise.

Yeah, but can those cars drift through a series of corners smoothly and at high speeds well? ;)

driftaholic
12-02-2003, 05:11 PM
oh god...PLEASE dont make us do it again... Chas are you ready if it comes down to it? wasnt it embarassing enough the first jboss?

jboss
12-02-2003, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by Akira714
Yeah, but can those cars drift through a series of corners smoothly and at high speeds well? ;)

I never claimed that they could. Most of the cars I listed could be drifted through a series of turns, smoothy and at high speeds with some talent at the wheel. None of them could do that without using the brakes and throttle.

Takes bait and waits for driftaholic to do his homework assignment---the asigment I outlined in the other thread that no one has yet to produce.........

Ghost of Duluth
12-02-2003, 06:43 PM
Heh you ought to listen to yourselves. You all have this prescribed notion of the perfect drift and if it's not that then it isn't drifting. Once again Jboss is right. Any car can be drifted. Drifting is controlled sliding. Nothing more nothing less. If you think he's full of it, watch Rally racing. Those guys have been drifting forever and a day, in 4wd, rwd and fwd. it's on dirt and pavement but it's the same thing. Flip on the speed channel and watch those guys go around the corners. They drift them. It's not a lock to lock drift but it is a drift none the less. Matter of fact they even call it drifting. Yes you can do a drift without using the brake. The Scandinavian flick came from Rally racing if im not mistaken. Scandinavian flick = inertia drift. Think that's an Initial D term but it's the same thing. Turn the wheel one way real quick then flick it back the other way. No brakes involved. that way you lose no speed to brakes.

Akira714 he didn't say they could be drifted through a set of turns but they probably could. Just wouldn't be the picturesque drift we all want to see. He said they could be drifted.

I hate to tell you all but anything going sideways is drifted. Though it isn't a perfect drift it is drifting one way or another. Thems the facts man.

panda_3ight_6
12-02-2003, 06:48 PM
Maybe the meaning of drifting needs to be changed.

Why are ALL the competive drift cars FR? I own a FR...but respect FF and MR too. they can be very good on a touge.

Chas
12-02-2003, 07:36 PM
I was arguing the pint where he said that it is just for show and not used in racing.

Young Drifter
12-02-2003, 09:28 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jboss
[B]because most of you havent seen it before..........

Anything...ANYTHING.....anything...can be drifted. Dont let some egoistic rear drivers let you think that a car has to be rear drive to drift. I have drifted vans, suvs, toyota tercels, chevy cavaliers, vws, rx7's, subarus, jeeps, oldsmobiles, buicks, soab-box derby cars etc etc etc. They can ALL be drifted.

Drifting plain and simple is sliding sideways------nothing more nothing less----although being able to control the slcontrol weight transfer to different wheels helping to induce a slide/drift BUT, it can usually be done with steering inputs alone in ANY car with TOTALLY STOCK suspension.

Wow man. You sound like a real pro :rolleyes: . Lol your like naming all the cars you have drifted. Yea right, thats a gaggle of em. Good luck. And who drifts an oldsmobile? Really?

Young Drifter
12-02-2003, 09:31 PM
I give it up to MR drifters...I've heard it's the hardest style....

Chas
12-02-2003, 09:31 PM
Ive seen a regal with front coilovers drift. :rolleyes:

driftaholic
12-02-2003, 10:05 PM
ok bro you wanted mo to do homework right???

How about a write another essay to school your poseur a$$...
sound good?

ok well here it goes...

THE ART OF THE DRIFT
Drifting is a sort of controlled loss of control of your car. When you drift, you use the weight and momentum of your car to move it laterally while it is still moving forward. In most cases, drifting is meant to bring the back end of the car around a turn faster than the front, while countersteering with the front wheels to maintain control and proper vehicle attitude. Alternately, a drift will occur when exiting a turn, when your outside tires are overloaded and lose traction, forcing your car toward the edge of the road. This is desirable because you can reach greater turn exit speeds by travelling at or near full throttle, but only if you can regain traction before your car slides off the road. Drifting is a knife-edge sort of driving technique, where you must be smooth and remain in control or else you will either slow the car unnecessarily or spin out.

As opposed to drifting, which is a controlled technique, sliding is a more wild technique with less control. A slide (or powerslide) occurs when all four wheels break traction and simply scrub along the road, accompanied by frenzied screeching sounds. Sliding is, in nearly all cases, slower than drifting for several reasons: First, you have no or very little traction during a slide, eliminating control of your car. When you are sliding, you cannot properly position your car for or during a turn as quickly and easily as you could while drifting. You must first slow your car until you regain traction, then adjust attitude. Secondly, you cannot accelerate as fast from a slide as you can from a drift. In rear-drive cars, properly accelerating from a drift will cause the rear tires to regain traction, providing acceleration. With a slide, you must again slow enough to regain traction before giving the car gas will do any good. The only time sliding is a useful technique is as a last-ditch effort to avoid going off the road or colliding with another object, or, sometimes as an advanced technique for off-road rally racing.


You now have permission to go crawl back under your rock;)

I'm going to say it just like just like Wu-Tang...
BRING THA MUTHA FU@KIN RUCKUS

Chas
12-02-2003, 10:10 PM
Nice

driftaholic
12-02-2003, 10:11 PM
OwNag3...

jboss
12-02-2003, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by driftaholic

THE ART OF THE DRIFT
Drifting is a sort of controlled loss of control of your car. When you drift, you use the weight and momentum of your car to move it laterally while it is still moving forward. In most cases, drifting is meant to bring the back end of the car around a turn faster than the front, while countersteering with the front wheels to maintain control and proper vehicle attitude. Alternately, a drift will occur when exiting a turn, when your outside tires are overloaded and lose traction, forcing your car toward the edge of the road. This is desirable because you can reach greater turn exit speeds by travelling at or near full throttle, but only if you can regain traction before your car slides off the road. Drifting is a knife-edge sort of driving technique, where you must be smooth and remain in control or else you will either slow the car unnecessarily or spin out.

As opposed to drifting, which is a controlled technique, sliding is a more wild technique with less control. A slide (or powerslide) occurs when all four wheels break traction and simply scrub along the road, accompanied by frenzied screeching sounds. Sliding is, in nearly all cases, slower than drifting for several reasons: First, you have no or very little traction during a slide, eliminating control of your car. When you are sliding, you cannot properly position your car for or during a turn as quickly and easily as you could while drifting. You must first slow your car until you regain traction, then adjust attitude. Secondly, you cannot accelerate as fast from a slide as you can from a drift. In rear-drive cars, properly accelerating from a drift will cause the rear tires to regain traction, providing acceleration. With a slide, you must again slow enough to regain traction before giving the car gas will do any good. The only time sliding is a useful technique is as a last-ditch effort to avoid going off the road or colliding with another object, or, sometimes as an advanced technique for off-road rally racing.




So, what exactly is the diference again???

Oh yeah:
A drift breaks traction and involves sliding....
A slide breaks traction and involves losing speed....

Looks like we have come full circle again. You have still not shown any definitive, observable differences. The ONLY difference you point out is that a drift does not involve losing as much speed as a slide.....The problem being that you defined both a slide and a drift as the same thing---breaking traction. If you mean to say that a drift involves breaking traction less than a slide does then you are left with the problem that you are still breaking traction, losing forward momentum, and decreasing the coefficient of friction between your tires and the road reducing lateral grip and forward grip.

So, what is it?
Is a drfit a slide or, is a slide a drift?
Is it a matter of slip angle?
Is it a matter of generating more forward momentum?
Is it a matter of 4 vs 2 wheels sliding?

You can not argue a point by tautalogical reasoning!!

I have spent enough time in the company of good teachers to know that you still need to go back to class and work a little harder on your homework assignment.

Get back to me when you figure it out. You are getting close, when your posts started, I would have given you an F-. Now you are moving close to the C range.

And cut out the juvenile OWNED crap. It just makes you look like a 15 year old who can't argue well.

Chas
12-02-2003, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by jboss
a drift involves breaking traction less than a slide does then you are left with the problem that you are still breaking traction,

Well, a burnout is a loss of traction but your not moving anywhere.

Ghost of Duluth
12-02-2003, 11:35 PM
Not to point fingers there Driftaholic but you kind of owned your friend Nightwalker on that one. Lets see how.

"to answer your question, a real drift is when the front and rear tires slide at the same time. The car is propelled sideways and moves sideways. Upon entering a corner, you should be sideways, not sideways when you exit. Thats as simple as I can put it. Most people mistake a power slide for drifting. There is a difference."

That is the post that Night walker made. You jumped in to defend him and explain drifting in general, by posting this.

"As opposed to drifting, which is a controlled technique, sliding is a more wild technique with less control. A slide (or powerslide) occurs when all four wheels break traction and simply scrub along the road, accompanied by frenzied screeching sounds"

Thats the textbook definition of a slide.It looks remarkably like the definition Nightwalker gave as a Drift to refute JBoss's "Useless post" But to be sure lets look at what a drift is.

"In most cases, drifting is meant to bring the back end of the car around a turn faster than the front, while countersteering with the front wheels to maintain control and proper vehicle attitude"

So in effect he explained a slide. Not a Drift and in your attempt to defend him, you owned him. But hey who's counting. :D

And Nightwalker you are wrong per the textbook. Sorry to break it down like that but thinking and researching before you speak is always a great idea. I got burned on that numerous times.

Oh and Lateral movement in a car is sliding. Drifting is controlled sliding. Plain and simple. Whether it's 2 or 4 wheel, it's still sliding.

driftaholic
12-03-2003, 12:14 AM
lol...i dont even know nightcrawler..lol

ok...
a drift is the fastest way through a turn... correct? YES
sliding is not a drift... correct? YES
Difference between a slide and a drift...
Although drifting is having your car sideways through a turn, it is not considered "slliding"...
How is this you say?
Sliding through a turn involves getting your car sideways through a turn, howver drifting has more to it than that. Drifting is sliding, but in a controlled motion, while maintaining the lines used during racing. The rear end of a car is moving around the turn faster than the rest of the car, therfore maintaining a faster speed during the turn, allowing for a HIGHER exit speed. While sliding, there is no set line for a turn, thus there is no control over the cars cornering speed.
So while sliding, you actually lose speed while going through a turn, and drifting you maintain speed while cornering.

Now... time for the one that everyone is going to *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* about...lol
Front Wheel Drive Drifts...
Although it is possible to drift in a front wheel drive car, it is not as easy, or effective as that of a rear wheel drive vehicles drift.
Why is this?
FWD means Front wheel Drive... A front wheel drive car means that the car is being pulled while driving, does it not? While cornering at high speed in a front wheel drive car you will realize that there is a significant amount of understeer. If this occurs, it means that the front of the car is cornering faster than the rear of the car. Now drifting... "the rear of the car is cornering faster than the front of the car.." how are you going to fix this problem? Use the E-Brake.. while pulling on the ebrake to induce a slide for the FWD car, you will be slowing down the car, and you will have to maintain balance of the car in order to keep the "drift" going, and that is why it is hard to "drift" a front wheel drive car. Notice i did not say that it was impossible, just very difficult. Lots of people can do it, and they are commended for it. I dont really see the point in it, except that they are making due with what they have.

If there are any comments about my lil fwd drifting section let me know, because i am kinda interested in it..lol dont really pay much attention to it, but it might be a lil fun;)

jboss
12-03-2003, 12:39 AM
ok...
a drift is the fastest way through a turn... correct? YES
Through SOME turns---yes

sliding is not a drift... correct? YES
NO

Difference between a slide and a drift...
Although drifting is having your car sideways through a turn, it is not considered "slliding"...
But it REQUIRES sliding so it MUST be considered sliding

How is this you say?
Only through mobia-strip reasoning...

Sliding through a turn involves getting your car sideways through a turn,
mostly agreed--although sliding does not have to be sideways

howver drifting has more to it than that.
OK---show me. I'm still not convinced

Drifting is sliding,
But I thought Drifting WAS NOT sliding

but in a controlled motion,
Ok, your getting closer. It is a type of sliding....

while maintaining the lines used during racing.
Then you just lost me here. Drift lines and racing lines are only the same in rare instances. Racers rarely drift because the racing line is faster for most turns. (and on a side note---drifters rarely race).

The rear end of a car is moving around the turn faster than the rest of the car,
Agreed--it is taking a larger arc so it is moving faster (but not necessarily in the right direction)

therfore maintaining a faster speed during the turn,
OK, so the rear end is moving faster during the turn---we already established that. If you are trying to imply that because the rear end is moving faster than the front end of the car, that the car is actually going to be faster coming out of the turn you have missed a logical step----that step being that it will only be faster IF the front of the car is traveling at the same rate it would be traveling if the car were at the limit and not sliding trough the turn.

allowing for a HIGHER exit speed.
See above.....

While sliding, there is no set line for a turn,
So, sliding is random, haphazard, uncontrolled??? I doubt it!

thus there is no control over the cars cornering speed.
And if sliding is not random, haphazard and uncontrolled then, THERE IS some control over cornering speed.

So while sliding, you actually lose speed while going through a turn, and drifting you maintain speed while cornering.
In conclusion...you have not actually proven this much less have you provided a theoretical basis that holds water for such assertions.

Now on to you points about FF

Ghost of Duluth
12-03-2003, 12:40 AM
You said it right there.

Drifting is sliding but in a controlled motion. Thats all JBoss has been saying. A drift is a slide. Just a controlled one.

As for the Front wheel drive. I agree. You can drift a FF car. No arguements there.

Lets all go to bed and put this to rest.

jboss
12-03-2003, 01:02 AM
Now... time for the one that everyone is going to *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* about...lol
Front Wheel Drive Drifts...
No bitching, I actually think you hit the nail on the head for the most part.

Although it is possible to drift in a front wheel drive car,
yep

it is not as easy,
yep

or effective as that of a rear wheel drive vehicles drift.
Don't know what you mean by effective.

Why is this?
See above

FWD means Front wheel Drive...
uh huh

A front wheel drive car means that the car is being pulled while driving, does it not?
Sure. But, remember, all the other forces act on a front drive the same way they do any othe configuration. Weight transfer being what is really important for drifting.

While cornering at high speed in a front wheel drive car you will realize that there is a significant amount of understeer.
Most cars in stock form have a significant amount of understeer---they come that way form the factory for "safety reasons". this is not a phenomenon associated with only fwd. It is just the case that it is very difficult to correct understeer in a fwd by pressing the gas. Rear drives can overcome understeer with throttle by breaking the rear tires loose---but this is not the only or most efficient way if you are trying to go fast.

Applying throttle (in ANY car) shifts weight to the rear of the car increasing the grip on those wheels and lessening the grip on the front wheels. this is why some of you may have noticed that if your rear drive car is understeering, applying throttle does not always help--sometimes it makes it worse. Unles you apply enough throttle to break traction the car will understeer even worse than before. (this is of course assuming the rear tires were not sliding before you apply throttle). This is why applying throttle in a front drive will always create more understeer---you can never gas it enough to break the rears loose. DUH

I could go on if anyone likes about shifting weight to the front and techniques for doing so and why you want to shift weight to the front to go fast instead of just using power-on-oversteer in a rear drive......

If this occurs, it means that the front of the car is cornering faster than the rear of the car.
The front is MOVING faster than the rear--yes

Now drifting... "the rear of the car is cornering faster than the front of the car.."
OK we will go with that definition---the rear of the car is moving faster through the corner than the front....

how are you going to fix this problem?
the problem that the front drive is doing just the opposite---jsut a clarification

Use the E-Brake.. while pulling on the ebrake to induce a slide for the FWD car, you will be slowing down the car,
Why use the e-brake? I know it is the easiest way, but there are other ways of doing it without causing such a dramatic effect on the cars speed and attitude.

and you will have to maintain balance of the car in order to keep the "drift" going,
Yep, this is the hard part for FF

and that is why it is hard to "drift" a front wheel drive car. Notice i did not say that it was impossible, just very difficult. Lots of people can do it, and they are commended for it.
Agreed, it is difficult to MAINTAIN a drift in FF. Certainly not impossible--but it would be pretty slow too.

I dont really see the point in it, except that they are making due with what they have.
FF are very competitive with FR in most motorsports that they compete side-by-side in. Heck look at the wrc super 1600 and other rally spec class racers.

Good, i am glad not everyone here is trying to scare away the FF's. They are certainly nothing to snivel at in the speed department.

Akira714
12-03-2003, 01:19 AM
IMO, yes FF can drift. But RWD drifting is more popular because it can be controlled better. Thus it can be sustained longer without having the driver fight with the wheel. Also, that some RWD drifting techniques can produce drifts at higher speeds compared to the E-brake technique.

REBEL-D
12-03-2003, 02:09 AM
a drift is the fastest way through a turn... correct? YES

Absolutly wrong!!! I am suprised someone would actually believe this to be true let alone make a statment as such?

drifting - sliding - drifting - sliding?

Keep it simple and stop trying to spit hairs for the sake of argument.

A drift is anytime a driver intentionally breaks traction and forces the car into a controlled slide. What ever the technique used to acheive this (feint/clutch/pendulum/lift-off etc) in whatever car (FF/FR/MR) makes no difference unless you are in competition. Only then is is more benificial to have FR.

I get the impression there are many virtual drifters on this forum who sit and theorize all day long. People need to get out and drive, experience it feel it. It's the only way to understand it.

Drifting is a modern term for powersliding as defined by the recent D1 competition IE: A Drift Competition is solely for the purpose of demonstrating exagerated full-lock powerslides and the drivers ability to transition corners whilst following a race line.

A powerslide whilst still spectacular is the fastest way around a dirt/gravel/snow/ice corner as seen in rallies for over sixty years.

A four wheel drift on tarmac is subtle but common in racing as drivers are constantly driving at the limit of the tires.

Unless you understand the fundamentals of racing a car you will never be any good at drifting a car at the end of the day.

Feint
12-03-2003, 05:55 AM
Originally posted by Young Drifter
I give it up to MR drifters...I've heard it's the hardest style....

MR is not a style,its a drivetrain layout.

Turn the wheel one way real quick then flick it back the other way. No brakes involved. that way you lose no speed to brakes.

Somewhat,it varies.You'd probably want to use the brakes a little,unless suicide missions are your thing.

Scandinavian Flick (http://www.tcsracing.org/scandinavianflick.htm)

Ghost of Duluth
12-03-2003, 07:58 AM
Heh I read that Scandinavian flick link and I have to disagree with something. Here it is.

# Stand on the brakes hard enough to lock up all four wheels. Don't forget to clutch in or else the engine will likely stall.
# Stay on the brakes to continue the slide, select a new gear and turn the wheel full lock in the opposite direction.
# When you're ready to turn release the brakes, the car should pivot around and face in the new direction of travel.

Stand on the brakes???? That defeats the whole purpose of the flick wouldn't you agree. "Staying on the brakes to continue the slide?" Once again defeating the entire purpose. Once you initiate the slide, inertia and momentum will carry it if you are at a high enough sped. "And when you are ready to turn release the brakes and the car SHOULD pivot around". With the brakes on you lose all semblence of control. If you release the brakes in the middle of a 4 wheel slide, odds are one set is going to grab, propelling you off the road at a high rate of speed. The purpose of the flick is to take a corner at a higher rate of speed, same as drifting. But instead of using the E-brake to start it, or straight power, you use inertia. Flicking the wheel to the left first unloads the suspension therefore making the car "light". Then the flick to the right should put the car into sideways motion.

This is all about weight transfer whether it be flicking or whatever. Here's a situation we put students through where I teach. Go around a corner at a set speed. 30 to 40 mph. Go around it with steady throttle, then go around it and let off in mid corner. Feel the difference. The weight transfers to the front when you let off the gas. The rear suspension unloads and the rear end gets light. Now do the same corner but hold you foot on the brake just enough to feel a little resistance. Hold gas and brake steady. Don't mash the brakes like you mash grandmas potatoes at Christmas but apply them til you feel the car settle. The car will take the corner more solidly and you have less lift. Reason being is that when you use the brake you compress the suspension causing the car to settle therefore decreasing body roll. You will corner faster this way than steady throttle alone. That is also how you do the movie stop I talked about the other day. That's what we teach it for.

But you could be right on one thing. Using a little brake isn't a bad thing. but when you enter the corner to perform the flick, you should already be at attack velocity. Not scrubbing speed off to set up. Should already be set up at the speed you need. (or think you need). Either way they are right on one thing.

"This technique requires the largest combination of sheer stupidity and balls our team can imagine". Not for the feint of heart. :D

driftaholic
12-03-2003, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by jboss
Now... time for the one that everyone is going to *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* about...lol
Front Wheel Drive Drifts...
No bitching, I actually think you hit the nail on the head for the most part.

Although it is possible to drift in a front wheel drive car,
yep

it is not as easy,
yep

or effective as that of a rear wheel drive vehicles drift.
Don't know what you mean by effective.

Why is this?
See above

FWD means Front wheel Drive...
uh huh

A front wheel drive car means that the car is being pulled while driving, does it not?
Sure. But, remember, all the other forces act on a front drive the same way they do any othe configuration. Weight transfer being what is really important for drifting.

While cornering at high speed in a front wheel drive car you will realize that there is a significant amount of understeer.
Most cars in stock form have a significant amount of understeer---they come that way form the factory for "safety reasons". this is not a phenomenon associated with only fwd. It is just the case that it is very difficult to correct understeer in a fwd by pressing the gas. Rear drives can overcome understeer with throttle by breaking the rear tires loose---but this is not the only or most efficient way if you are trying to go fast.

Applying throttle (in ANY car) shifts weight to the rear of the car increasing the grip on those wheels and lessening the grip on the front wheels. this is why some of you may have noticed that if your rear drive car is understeering, applying throttle does not always help--sometimes it makes it worse. Unles you apply enough throttle to break traction the car will understeer even worse than before. (this is of course assuming the rear tires were not sliding before you apply throttle). This is why applying throttle in a front drive will always create more understeer---you can never gas it enough to break the rears loose. DUH

I could go on if anyone likes about shifting weight to the front and techniques for doing so and why you want to shift weight to the front to go fast instead of just using power-on-oversteer in a rear drive......

If this occurs, it means that the front of the car is cornering faster than the rear of the car.
The front is MOVING faster than the rear--yes

Now drifting... "the rear of the car is cornering faster than the front of the car.."
OK we will go with that definition---the rear of the car is moving faster through the corner than the front....

how are you going to fix this problem?
the problem that the front drive is doing just the opposite---jsut a clarification

Use the E-Brake.. while pulling on the ebrake to induce a slide for the FWD car, you will be slowing down the car,
Why use the e-brake? I know it is the easiest way, but there are other ways of doing it without causing such a dramatic effect on the cars speed and attitude.

and you will have to maintain balance of the car in order to keep the "drift" going,
Yep, this is the hard part for FF

and that is why it is hard to "drift" a front wheel drive car. Notice i did not say that it was impossible, just very difficult. Lots of people can do it, and they are commended for it.
Agreed, it is difficult to MAINTAIN a drift in FF. Certainly not impossible--but it would be pretty slow too.

I dont really see the point in it, except that they are making due with what they have.
FF are very competitive with FR in most motorsports that they compete side-by-side in. Heck look at the wrc super 1600 and other rally spec class racers.

Good, i am glad not everyone here is trying to scare away the FF's. They are certainly nothing to snivel at in the speed department. `

HOLY SH*T!!!! We fukin agreed on something ROFL

Ghost of Duluth
12-03-2003, 09:39 AM
YAAAAAAAAAAAAYY!!!!! I am glad. Now let's all get together and work on that 4 deep drift where we all hold each others doors open. :D

driftaholic
12-03-2003, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by Ghost of Duluth
You said it right there.

Drifting is sliding but in a controlled motion. Thats all JBoss has been saying. A drift is a slide. Just a controlled one.

As for the Front wheel drive. I agree. You can drift a FF car. No arguements there.

Lets all go to bed and put this to rest.
looks like we have both been trying to argue the same point then huh..lmao

Ghost of Duluth
12-03-2003, 10:04 AM
Yea we all rock. Group hug on that one. Now let's all go out and get some prostitutes. The good ones from Nevada.

CRASHDRIVE
12-03-2003, 10:31 AM
I checked the meaning of "Drift" (through Webster.com) and this is what it means.
++++++++++++++++++++
Main Entry: 2drift
Function: verb
Date: circa 1600
intransitive senses
1 a : to become driven or carried along (as by a current of water, wind, or air) b : to move or float smoothly and effortlessly
2 a : to move along a line of least resistance b : to move in a random or casual way c : to become carried along subject to no guidance or control <the talk drifted from topic to topic>
3 a : to accumulate in a mass or become piled up in heaps by wind or water b : to become covered with a drift
4 : to vary or deviate from a set course or adjustment
transitive senses
1 a : to cause to be driven in a current b West : to drive (livestock) slowly especially to allow grazing
2 a : to pile in heaps b : to cover with drifts
- drift·ing·ly /'drif-ti[ng]-lE/ adverb
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If a form of force (in this case, momentum or intertia). It can be considered a Drift.

I hope this helps the whole argument about "A real drift"

driftaholic
12-03-2003, 11:02 AM
whores in Yokohama are pretty nice too;) Then we will be able to go th Japan... (&Back for me i dont know if any1 has been yet)LMAO

CRASHDRIVE
12-03-2003, 11:51 AM
Oh yeah.. my personal say, which is true drifting and not..

2 category.
Show Drifting and Race Drifting.

Show Drifting:
This is longer drift style. I mean, your going sideways for a very long time.
(ex: power sliding, both tires are on a stop and the car just keeps moving due to its momentum).

Race Drifting:
Surpassing your cars ability in a turn and controlling that situation through out the whole turn.
(ex: Turning your car into the Apex, far beyond grip racing, this will cause your rear to loose traction and while loosing that traction, you are maintaining your speed and control).

If you look at some video's (Options and Drift Bible) they differ that difference.

sobe
12-03-2003, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by CRASHDRIVE
Oh yeah.. my personal say, which is true drifting and not..

2 category.
Show Drifting and Race Drifting.

Show Drifting:
This is longer drift style. I mean, your going sideways for a very long time.
(ex: power sliding, both tires are on a stop and the car just keeps moving due to its momentum).

Race Drifting:
Surpassing your cars ability in a turn and controlling that situation through out the whole turn.
(ex: Turning your car into the Apex, far beyond grip racing, this will cause your rear to loose traction and while loosing that traction, you are maintaining your speed and control).

If you look at some video's (Options and Drift Bible) they differ that difference.

OWNAGE!!! GOOD STUFF DUDE

that was awesome i was thinking of doing that but *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*, way to go man!

baboon's a$$
12-05-2003, 04:45 PM
okay here's my definition of show off drifting: my 2 cents

navigating a series of hairpin turns and chicanes maintaining a constant oversteer condition in one way (left) or another (right).

Sideways_In_SD
12-07-2003, 09:23 PM
JESUS H. CHRIST!!!!!!!!!

:rolleyes:

ARE YOU GUYS SERIOUS!!!

I'm going to copy this post to another thread that I think spawned this post.

I'm going to settle this for once and for all. Guess what, almost everybody is right on this thread, but also a little bit wrong in some way or another.

Once again, you guys are getting wrapped up in technicallities that don't really matter!!!

The key point missing is intention.

Drifting is getting a car sideways through a turn PERIOD!!!!

2 wheeled drifting IS DRIFTING,
4 wheeled drifting IS DRIFTING,
Powersliding IS DRIFTING,
SKIDDING IS DRIFTING!!!

The difference is intent, if you're in a civic and you saw the the drift bible or whatever (god help us), and you go out and crank your ebrake around a turn. And your car's a$$-end comes out, and you punch it, and counter-steer, and exit the corner without losing it; technically, yes you drifted. Come join drifting.com drop nonsense on everyone about your skills.

If a soccer mom is driving home from the grocery store on a rainy day and hits the brakes to dodge a squirrel, and manages to counter-steer and not lose it. But does mange to get the a$$-end to come out and come back, technically she drifted.

BUT THE DIFFERENCE IS INTENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU CAN DRIFT ANY CAR!!!

There are many different ways to "drift", but there are many different styles of drifting as well. To say powersliding isn't drifting is foolish because WTF is a powerover??? To say skidding isn't drifting is foolish as well, because WTF IS A BRAKING DRIFT??
Just like saying drifting is the fastest way through a turn, WRONG! Depending on the turn, and the speed contest you are engaged in, the amount of velocity needed to maintain your lap speed and time. The fastest way around a course is "slow in, fast out". Watch NASCAR or the 24 hrs. of LeMans, no drifting. Sorry.

Just because you saw some drifting and started imitating it doesn't mean that's the only way to drift. YOUR STYLE OF DRIFT IS GOING TO BE BASED ON YOUR SET UP MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE!!!! ANY PRO DRIFTER WILL TELL YOU THIS!!! If your set up is FF then you'll probably be stuck with just spin-turns with the e brake, feints, and braking drifts, and yes the rest of us will probably make fun of you because it's less advanced. BUT IT'S STILL DRIFTING!!

The difference between the drifting you see the pros do on the videos and at events, and what you may hear people talk about on this forum is their set ups. Guess what, not everyone has the money to set up a dedicated drift car, or government agencies disallow certain things. So what do you do? You improvise, you figure out what it takes to get your car sideways, and you use it. THAT'S DRIFTING!!!!!

STOP SPLITTING HAIRS!!!!! THIS FORUM IS ABOUT SPREADING KNOWLEDGE, AND SHARING IDEAS, NOT "SHUTTING PEOPLE DOWN" OR "SCHOOLING PEOPLE". IT'S BETTER TO AGREE TO DISAGREE THAN TO SPREAD FLAMES, HATE, AND DISCONTENT.
FOR GODSAKE, ACT YOUR AGE, NOT YOUR HEIGHT IN FEET!!

That's what causes people to not join forums or participate, is everything turns into a pissing contest!!!

That is all, welcome back Sideways.

{Mod stop the madness, please lock this thread}

Chas
12-07-2003, 10:51 PM
post whore!

Nightwalker
12-07-2003, 11:48 PM
people are taking this "drifting" thing to literal. Get it straight idiots, and stop being an a$$ about it. You guys all know what is meant when someone mentions drifting in motorsports. Not your elitist generalized version of "drifiting".

I guess people who don't drive take it from this odd point of view.:rolleyes: :confused:

Sideways_In_SD
12-08-2003, 09:53 PM
Fer real..:rolleyes: I'm over most of these nerds. TALK TO ME AFTER YOU'VE WRECKED SOMETHING!!!! Wannabe videogame drifters.. [me flipping you all off]

Chas
12-08-2003, 09:57 PM
Im at two cars now, am i hardcore? jk

Sideways_In_SD
12-08-2003, 10:09 PM
Don't get me started on you Chas, we're cool, but you have a lot to learn.

Just sit back and let the grown folks talk, okay.;)

I got your post whore right here too. [See my fuzzy bean-bag]:D

Chas
12-08-2003, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by Sideways_In_SD
but you have a lot to learn

never;)

driftaholic
12-09-2003, 10:37 AM
LMAO...wow this is still going on...LMAO!!! wow i thought this would have been deleted by now..HAHAHAHAHHHAHHAHAAHAA

Ghost of Duluth
12-09-2003, 11:09 AM
Talk to me when you have wrecked something? Well I guess that means my sister is a drifter, that black lady that hit me in the rear is a drifter, the tractor trailor driver on I-75 who fell asleep at the wheel on ludes is a drifter. Let's invite them all to the D1 and watch them clean house. :D

I think you are getting a little too worked up about this.

fsr
12-09-2003, 11:49 AM
Why is this a discussion? Ok, the question is simple. What is a real drift. The answer is just as simple. When you loose traction. Drifting, skidding, sliding, whatever you call it are basically same shite, different wrapping. It all depends on where you are from and how you use the english language.

Most of you guys have a point, but you all seem to forget one thing. There is a motorsport called drifting. Not skidding, and not sliding. It could just as well be called skidding or sliding, but it's not. In the motorsport called drifting, drivers compete using a points system. So a real drift in the motorsport called drifting has to meet the judging criterias for that sport. A real drift in any other situation can be anything that involves loosing traction. Doesn't matter if it's controlled or not.

But, people that are involved in some kind of motorsport tend to use different words to describe different nuances. Drifting is often used to describe a very controlled and even effective way of using the engine power in a rw car to steer (push) the car around a corner. It does not involve loosing traction completely, just helps the car turn and allowing you to apply the power sooner.

In Japan in the mid-eighties, some drivers pushed the limits further, and focused on the car control required to do a controlled drift, rather than the speed itself. There was probably many reasons for this, but mainly I guess it was a result of the fact that some cars are faster than others, so racing would not decide who's the best driver. Exessive drifting on the other hand, would.

When these drivers moved from the mountains to the track, drifting as a motorsport was born. The correct name should probably be show drifting, as the whole point is to put on a show! To do so they use every technique available. They use the e-brake, they do scandinavian flicks, turn-in while braking or lifting off, de-clutching to use either the engine inertia or reving the engine to brake the rear tires loose or power-slide by using the engines power to create wheelspin.

Some of these techniques are possible to do with a fw car, and a fw car can drift quite easily on turn-in and mid corner. It will not be able to accelerate from a corner while maintaining a drift though, and therefor will not be competitive in (show) drifting events.

This is not really hard to understand if you have some experience in real racing, but wannabe street-racers that use terms they're not familiar with will obviously create confusion. And they do... :rolleyes:

FSR

CRASHDRIVE
12-09-2003, 01:18 PM
Oh My F U C K E N S H I T!

ADMIN!.. please delete this THREAD Please!

Thank you.

fsr
12-09-2003, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by CRASHDRIVE
Oh My F U C K E N S H I T!

ADMIN!.. please delete this THREAD Please!

Thank you.

Why delete? This thread only illustrates that there are a lot of confusion about drifting. Which is natural, as it's a brand new form of motorsport in most countries. If nothing else, reading this thread will make noobs understand that it's not as simple as a cartoon ;)

EDIT: Yeah, I know, I'm a noob myself. But only on the forum, not as a drifter ;)

scirocco
07-28-2004, 02:37 PM
i agree with jboss in that anything can be drifted. a rear-drive drifter can drift faster and that's all. e-brake drifting is used by the pros like taniguchi and tsuchiya all the time. FF drifting isn't as fast or good but neither is FR really. AWD drift is much faster since you have more traction in the direction you want: that's why they use it in WRC... plus my scirocco has a custom AWD drift setup and its unbeatable

Ripper
07-28-2004, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by panda_3ight_6
honestly you cant do a REAL drift with out RWD... but you can do poweslides and side brake drifts with a FF, just pull the e brake on the entry of the drift and then steer through and viola!... well its not that easy but... you should get the idea...

well, ya. i wouldn't really call it drifting. i do "mini-drifts" with my FF accord. or some people would just call it powerslide. nonetheless, it's pretty exciting. i'm also learning how to feint.

GoukiS14
07-28-2004, 03:17 PM
yet another one of these...... we really need to figure out a way to help newbies out, cuz we get the same threads all the time. Maybe on the front page "click here to read some of the basics" or something like that.

*edit lol I just saw the new to drifting section.... maybe it should be moved to the top so that people can see it right away as soon as they enter the forums

fsr
07-28-2004, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Ripper
well, ya. i wouldn't really call it drifting. i do "mini-drifts" with my FF accord. or some people would just call it powerslide. nonetheless, it's pretty exciting. i'm also learning how to feint.

Well, one thing is for sure. If someone call it a powerslide, they're way off. A powerslide is when you break traction on the rear wheels by applying power. Pretty impossible in an Accord...:rolleyes:

Ghost of Duluth
07-28-2004, 03:21 PM
NO WAY is this powderkeg exploding again.