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miata619drifter
12-03-2003, 07:15 PM
...or more accurately, suspension. check out this link.

"...an open diff Miata will also leave two black marks if you dump the clutch and peal out in a strait line."

i dont know if this is any help for drifting (turns vs. straight line) but i just found it interesting that an open diff miata isnt a "one-leg wonder" when you dump the clutch and peel out.

http://www.miata.net/garage/vlsd.html

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always carry a fire extinguisher! if i had one with me 2 years ago, my last miata wouldn't be sitting in a junkyard somewhere all charred up.

Simon-AE86
12-03-2003, 07:21 PM
so much misinformation on that site...

"+ Miata housing with minor grinding of the interior of the housing (the 1989-91 RX7 is a viscous)."

this is absolute *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*

miata619drifter
12-03-2003, 07:33 PM
does that diff swap not work?

Simon-AE86
12-03-2003, 07:41 PM
rx7 diffs are NOT vicious diff's

none of them ever were... FD is torsen, FC is clutch pack.

miata619drifter
12-03-2003, 07:44 PM
i heard that before 1989 they were clutch type limited slips.

can any RX-7 experts help me out here?

Simon-AE86
12-03-2003, 07:46 PM
i know my rx7's ive owned 2 of them....

1986 - 89 is SERIES 4 rx7, they come with both OPEN and CLUTCH LSD's

89-91 is SERIES 5 RX7, they come with CLUTCH pack LSD's ONLY (no open diffs available) all were turbos

miata619drifter
12-03-2003, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by Simon-AE86
i know my rx7's ive owned 2 of them....

1986 - 89 is SERIES 4 rx7, they come with both OPEN and CLUTCH LSD's

89-91 is SERIES 5 RX7, they come with CLUTCH pack LSD's ONLY (no open diffs available) all were turbos

all were turbo? this site says different...

"Year-to-Year Changes

1990 Mazda RX-7: GTU, GTU S, and GXL model designations were abandoned for 1991, leaving Mazda's rotary-engined sports car with a single trim level. The slow-selling 2+2 coupe was dropped, too, leaving only the 2-passenger hatchback coupe and convertible. Only the coupe was available in Turbo form. Mazda's option list dwindled, as accessories were grouped into two packages. Air conditioning was standard on all models."

"Only the coupe was available in turbo form"

http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/used/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/2345

miata619drifter
12-03-2003, 07:58 PM
RX-7.com says different about the limited slip types too...

check it out...

"In the '86-88 L.S.D. equipped models, Mazda used a standard 2-way mechanical L.S.D. and then switched to a viscous-style differential for the '89-91 L.S.D. equipped models."

http://www.rx7.com/cgi-local/2catalog.cgi?cat=2&part=7

Simon-AE86
12-03-2003, 08:01 PM
only the coupe?

please explain what a coupe RX7 is as i wasnt aware that they came in sedan as well :rolleyes:

seriously now, in japan and every other market in the world, the series 4 was available in non turbo and turbo trims

the series 5 however was turbo only.

miata619drifter
12-03-2003, 08:02 PM
its talking about coupe vs. convertible, not coupe vs. sedan

miata619drifter
12-03-2003, 08:05 PM
how weird, this place is selling Series 5 RX-7 motors that are non-turbo (there is a 1990 and a 1991 listed)

http://www.rebuilt-motors.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/rebuilt-motor-hotline.html?l_make=mazda

miata619drifter
12-03-2003, 08:12 PM
this is soooo weird, this place is selling 89-91 non-turbo RX-7 motors too.

http://www.mazdarotaryengines.com/

Chas
12-03-2003, 08:16 PM
Ive seen PLENTY 89 and up non turbo coupes.

oh wow took me two seconds to find a few
1 (http://autotrader.com/findacar/vdetail.jtmpl?car_id=147143499&dealer_id=&car_year=1991&make=MAZDA&distance=any&max_price=15000&model=RX7&advcd_on=n&end_year=1991&min_price=&first_record=51&address=92130&search_type=used&advanced=n&start_year=1989&=&color=&cardist=1196)
2 (http://autotrader.com/findacar/vdetail.jtmpl?car_id=149530984&dealer_id=&car_year=1989&make=MAZDA&distance=any&max_price=15000&model=RX7&advcd_on=n&end_year=1991&min_price=&first_record=51&address=92130&search_type=used&advanced=n&start_year=1989&=&color=&cardist=2069)

miata619drifter
12-03-2003, 08:17 PM
Simon-AE86, i guess this chart must be wrong too then huh?

http://rx7.voodoobox.net/infofaq/rx7specs.html

Chas
12-03-2003, 08:18 PM
3 (http://autotrader.com/findacar/vdetail.jtmpl?car_id=149131395&dealer_id=&car_year=1990&make=MAZDA&distance=any&max_price=15000&model=RX7&advcd_on=n&end_year=1991&min_price=&first_record=51&address=92130&search_type=used&advanced=n&start_year=1989&=&color=&cardist=2372) 4 (http://autotrader.com/findacar/vdetail.jtmpl?car_id=146297154&dealer_id=43564205&car_year=1990&make=MAZDA&distance=any&max_price=15000&model=RX7&advcd_on=n&end_year=1991&min_price=&first_record=51&address=92130&search_type=used&advanced=n&start_year=1989&=&color=&cardist=1027)

Chas
12-03-2003, 08:19 PM
This has been a bad week for people gettin owned

miata619drifter
12-03-2003, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by Chas
This has been a bad week for people gettin owned

lol. can someone post one of those "owned" pics for Simon-AE86?

Chas
12-03-2003, 08:21 PM
Of course.:D

Simon-AE86
12-03-2003, 08:25 PM
i didnt get owned. i did not mentioned the US at all, Jap and every other market except the US, there were no non turbo S5 rx7's.

tyhe US got and still gets all the shitty cars.

Now whats more i was CORRECT about the diff.

so *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* you all.

Chas
12-03-2003, 08:33 PM
Seeing as were from the US, would it not seem logical that were talking about the US model of the car?

miata619drifter
12-03-2003, 08:36 PM
no no Simon-AE86 you were INCORRECT about the diffs too...

"RX-7.com says different about the limited slip types too...

check it out...

"In the '86-88 L.S.D. equipped models, Mazda used a standard 2-way mechanical L.S.D. and then switched to a viscous-style differential for the '89-91 L.S.D. equipped models."

http://www.rx7.com/cgi-local/2catalog.cgi?cat=2&part=7

miata619drifter
12-03-2003, 08:38 PM
Simon-AE86 got owned for the second time in one thread i guess

Simon-AE86
12-03-2003, 08:57 PM
riiiight

well for one thing there is no such thing as a "standard 2-way mechanical L.S.D. " in an RX7

Mechanical diff's are Torsens, Torsens were made for the FD ONLy and not the FC

the other thing is Torsens cannot and i repeat CANNOT be 2ways.



stop looking at shitty american websites, half of them have incorrect information on them.

miata619drifter
12-03-2003, 08:59 PM
so you're telling me RX-7.com is not a good source of information for the RX-7? ok...

miata619drifter
12-03-2003, 09:17 PM
oh yeah, mechanical does not mean TORSEN

look here...

http://www.randdmotorsports.com/mugencivic96transmission.html


mechanical apparently means "multi-plate"

and you can get one of these 2-way mechanical LSD's that Simon-AE86 says dont exist at the website above

is it possible to be owned 3 times in one thread?

miata619drifter
12-03-2003, 09:26 PM
this is weird, there is a WRX on this site that has one of those 2-way mechanical LSD's too....weird....

http://www.j-garage.com/4110.htm

look for entry 1994.11

Simon-AE86
12-03-2003, 09:45 PM
mehcanical means torsen

no plates

you sir, are a wanker

thats all from me

miata619drifter
12-03-2003, 09:54 PM
if mechanical means torsen, then i guess Mugen is wrong.

who would you believe? Simon-AE86...or...MUGEN???

jboss
12-03-2003, 09:59 PM
I used to own a 91 non-turbo rx7--it was my last car

miata619drifter
12-03-2003, 10:01 PM
Simon-AE86, there is more than one type of mechanical LSD...have you ever heard of a helical-type LSD?

a torsen may be a type of mechanical LSD, but that does not mean all mechanical LSD's are torsen

jboss
12-03-2003, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by miata619drifter
Simon-AE86, there is more than one type of mechanical LSD...have you ever heard of a helical-type LSD?

a torsen may be a type of mechanical LSD, but that does not mean all mechanical LSD's are torsen


helical=planetary gears=torque biasing=atb=quaiffe=peloquin=torsen

they are all slight variations on the same thing.

All of them fall into the mechanical category---which also include clutch-pack or clutch type diffs.

then there are viscous diffs

then there are active electronically controlled diffs--can be mechanical or viscous..


etc etc etc

miata619drifter
12-03-2003, 10:08 PM
oh well, what do ya know? NISMO makes a MECHANICAL 2-WAY LSD!

http://www7.plala.or.jp/tok/silvia/gallary_specsheet-e.html

who are you going to believe? Simon-AE86...or...NISMO???

jboss
12-03-2003, 10:19 PM
actually, the nismo website says it is a prototye......so whethe they make one YOU can buy is questionable.

And, all diffs are 2 way diffs. Meaning that they work under both braking and accelerating forces....
However, companies use the phrase "2 way" is used to describe a diff that has different charachteristics when loaded from acceleration than when loaded from the driveshafts.

I cant think of a better way to describe it so, I use loaded from the driveshafts to describe what happens when one wheel locks up from using the brakes and the other does not. If the diff behaved the same way when reverse loaded like this as it does under acceleration, the diff would lock when one wheel stops spinning and make both wheels lock up.
Clutch type diffs with mild trailing ramp angles act similar to open diffs under this type of loading.
Aggressive leading and mild trailing ramp angles are popular for rallyists and I would think this is also the type of setup you might want for drifting....

Hope we all know a little more about diffs now.

miata619drifter
12-03-2003, 10:37 PM
well MUGEN makes a mechanical 2-way you can buy:

http://www.randdmotorsports.com/mugencivic96transmission.html


and apparently a mechanical 2-way is available to buy for WRX's:

http://www.j-garage.com/4110.htm
(entry 1994.11)

Simon-AE86
12-04-2003, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by miata619drifter
Simon-AE86, there is more than one type of mechanical LSD...have you ever heard of a helical-type LSD?

a torsen may be a type of mechanical LSD, but that does not mean all mechanical LSD's are torsen

this just proves that you are a thick idiot.

Helical diff's are TORSEN in design, or quaifs or torque sensing, or gear drive diff.. its all the same *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*

Simon-AE86
12-04-2003, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by miata619drifter
well MUGEN makes a mechanical 2-way you can buy:

http://www.randdmotorsports.com/mugencivic96transmission.html


and apparently a mechanical 2-way is available to buy for WRX's:

http://www.j-garage.com/4110.htm
(entry 1994.11)


im yet to be proven wrong. all two way diffs (mechanical or whatever they state on the company websites) are a clutch pack based diff.

torsens are not 2 ways in the same sence that a clutch pack is.


Spot the arrogant american here...

miata619drifter
12-04-2003, 12:17 AM
ok, you can say they're the same thing.

but would you care to comment on Mugen making a 2-way mechanical LSD? how about the one for the subaru?

i thought you said there is no such thing as a 2-way mechanical LSD?

miata619drifter
12-04-2003, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by Simon-AE86


Mechanical diff's are Torsens, Torsens were made for the FD ONLy and not the FC

the other thing is Torsens cannot and i repeat CANNOT be 2ways.



those websites proved you wrong. not me.

i'm not arrogant, you just cant admit that you were wrong. plain and simple. first you said "there were never any non-turbo 89-91 RX-7's" and you were proven wrong.

then you said what's in the quote i put up, and i found websites that contradict what you say.

it takes a bigger person to admit they were wrong.

Simon-AE86
12-04-2003, 01:30 AM
Originally posted by miata619drifter
ok, you can say they're the same thing.

but would you care to comment on Mugen making a 2-way mechanical LSD? how about the one for the subaru?

i thought you said there is no such thing as a 2-way mechanical LSD?

quite simply here in australia mechanicals are reffered as torsens and helical diffs.

they say mechanical 2 ways but really its a clutch pack diff.

also. once again the australian market did not see any non turbo S5's,

jboss
12-04-2003, 04:46 PM
instead of getting into the semantics of it al. Why don't you go back and read my post above that explains 2-way diffs.....I went ahead and editied it to make it more clear.

miata619drifter
12-04-2003, 07:15 PM
well, i for one am ready to let this thread go. it's an argument over insignificant details anyway.

lets all just get back to posts about how cool drifting is!

Chas
12-04-2003, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by miata619drifter
lets all just get back to posts about how cool drifting is!

Sounds like a plan.

Forge_55b
12-04-2003, 10:08 PM
back to the topic the open diff thing is cause the 50/50 weight thing but maybe thats not the exact reason.....im guessing there might be some weight biased on one side of the car....maybe the one thats not under load or whatever.....anywho the miata owns and hopefully i can get the showy drift thing going and represent hehe

Haku
08-31-2004, 08:01 PM
I've just started drifting and got the hang of sliding around turns, nothing major, but i know my car needs more control, i wanted to buy a diff, but i was told to get a mechanical one. what should i be lookin for exactly. oh and JAPANPARTS.COM sells the NISMO 2-WAY LSD. any help with lsd's would be appreciated

f8ldzz
08-31-2004, 08:48 PM
Gee, lots of misinformation here.

1) There was no such thing as a non-turbo sold in Japan. All JDM FC3S were turbo'd. Non-turbos FC3S were officially sold in Europe and North America.

2) US-Spec Kouki FC3S turbos used viscous LSD's. I can't confirm if the US-Spec Kouki non-turbo FC3S came with VLSD's, but I know all the US-Spec Kouki FC3S turbos were all VLSD's.

3) Torsen LSD's were used in the Infini IV (previous Infini also?) limited edition in Japan. So the Torsen was technically used in an FC3S.

The term "mechanical" LSD doesn't mean anything specific.
I would think it would not be an "electronic LSD", as there are electronically acutuated LSD's out there.

Torsens are better known as "helical" LSD's.

Your Miata can use the Torsen available in the M-Edition(?).
This is probably the cheapest option to find one used.

Ignore the comments about the NISMO units.
Nismo parts are specifically made for Nissans, and I doubt it'll fit in a Mazda.

Oh, and back to the first question in the thread, you *can* do a burn-out with an open-diff and spin both tires.
If you keep the car in a straight line and accelerate hard, most likely both tires will spin.
The LSD needs to see two different friction surfaces or two different wheel speeds of rotation for it activate.