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driftmunky
12-06-2003, 10:53 PM
ive been thinking about the weight of the MA70 alot lately and as you all know, it is a very heavy car. For the people who own/drift these sexy machines, how does this affect their driftability? I was jsut wondering because it is one of the front-runners for my car I want to get. Also, what are some easy (cost little to nothing) mods or removals that be done to make the wieght as little as possible, Im already thinking about new seats, since ive heard those can shave off around 100lbs or so, and removal of the back seat shouldnt be a problem since here its illegal for a 16 year old to have more than one passenger at a time in the car anyway.. (stupid laws), anyting else?

Shin_Kudou
12-06-2003, 11:20 PM
You lose quite a bit just ditching the tire and such as well. Then, ditch the backseat and get some racing seats up front. That should help a bit. That's what the MA70 drivers I know do.

J-BloodAE86
12-07-2003, 12:28 AM
and take out the sound deadening material. its a b!tch, but every little bit helps.

i like MKIIIs too, i htink i might buy one, either that or a FC...

ACDSupra7
12-07-2003, 12:53 AM
If you go all out, you can get it to around 2900 lbs. Basically the weight of the FD.

As for the stock 3400 pounder, you have to drift a little bit slower, it's not too bad though.

Chas
12-07-2003, 02:36 AM
Carbon and fiberglass parts. Lighter wheels, seats, remove anything you can.

Sky_kiD
12-07-2003, 09:03 AM
m what? carbon who?

There is about 50 lbs of sound deadening tar all over the car (I've been shopping for one, damn i have too many cars these days) yeah the car is compleley loaded down with this stuff

theres also a full size spare with a big iron jack in the back.

back seats are like the cheap things maybe 12lb max dont worry yourself with those.

Now the drivers seat, 8way adjustable, thats got to be heavy man...

and, the biggest weight hog in there would have to be that giant sized inline six in the front.

Chas
12-07-2003, 12:33 PM
Dont forget all the panels to. Everything adds up.

driftmunky
12-07-2003, 02:13 PM
is it difficult to get the sound deadining poo out? and so my best bet is strip the whole thing with two Sparco Speed(16.6 lbs) or Nex(11.8 lbs) Seats up front? and then after that ill work on the the carbon parts and such, onyl thing is that those are mucho $$$.... if it was stripped and had above mentioned seats in it, how much do you think it would weigh then? i want to get it light enough that i can keep the engine mildly modified (hoping for a little over 300hp) and still be fast enough for those highway battles :)

ACDSupra7
12-07-2003, 02:19 PM
It's easy to get the sound deadening material out. You just need a pick and a hammer. You might wanna ditch the carpet and re-paint the metal. That's probably what I'll do. I'm also going to go with the Sparco Speeds. It's about a 100lb drop. The CFX CF hood is like $600 or something.

As far as the 300hp mark goes, if you're talking about the 7MGE then you're in trouble. 300hp is almost the max you can pull out of the engine. BPU anyhow.

driftmunky
12-07-2003, 02:21 PM
i was planning on the 7MGTE or maybe even the 1JZGTE if i could get the money, and how much do you think the hood would take off?

J-BloodAE86
12-07-2003, 03:07 PM
how much hp can the 7mgte put out? and where can i find 1j for sale?

driftmunky
12-07-2003, 03:20 PM
At i-supra.com and supraforums.com they have some dyno results and such and the most i saw was around 800hp..... thats with the 7MGTE not the 1JZGTE..... 7M's dont get enough respect, anyway im not sure where to get a 1jz, you can look at ebay, but thats taking a chance, and jsut search around.

ACDSupra7
12-07-2003, 03:27 PM
Look around google, you can find a 1JZ pretty easily. If you need more help finding it, just PM me.

Yeah, the GTE will top out around 800hp. Just BPU I'd say you could tack on about 300 extra hp.

You're other option is to put a 2JZ in. I know an old man that did it to his MA70.

ACDSupra7
12-07-2003, 03:29 PM
LOL. We should start a drifting.com MA70 club =P

ACDSupra7
12-07-2003, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by driftmunky
and how much do you think the hood would take off?

I hear about 40lbs...

Chas
12-07-2003, 05:54 PM
Just keep the 7m. IT can make more hen enough power. We could get you a 1j if you really want it. You can get the 7m to put out over 300 with under 1000 of basic boltons.

driftmunky
12-07-2003, 08:12 PM
Hey Chas, you know that I am TYMunkey on AOL right? jsut checking cuz we already talked baout what you jsut said and i wasnt sure if you knew it was me, or were you just posting that for anyone else that might be browsing this topic?

Chas
12-07-2003, 10:24 PM
Yes i know. Just answering the question for eveyone else.

emission
12-08-2003, 12:44 AM
You know what suck's about manual tyranny's on the 7m's?

Fact they are only good for 350-400 rwhp at most.
As long as you keep it between those range's your cool.
I keep my tyranny in shape by changing the fluids every 3 months. Oil coolers help out a lot.

But I end up pulling it out every year anyways. I have a spare tyranny, it's ready to pop in when ever I feel the tyranny is about to go. I save some money by doing my own repairs. 800 bucks at most for a rebuild. 200 bucks for a repair kit you can save 600 bucks.

The lowest weight I have ever seen on a MKIII was 2820. Any lower and you'll be cutting away at the shell.

My lsd hasn't been changed for 5yrs. That's how long I had my supra, not counting the previous owners. I recommend the fluid is changed every 35,000 miles.

I run a lot of synthetics nothing beats it. Currently I'm experimenting on a new fluid and so far it doesn't burn or wear down my lsd after 12,000 miles the fluid is still clean and the lsd is more responsive.


The weakest links in the 7m is tyranny, Axel, and engine. Not an idea drift car for an owner on a budget.

But don't let all that scare you. The MA70's are great cars. Good luck. I love to see all MA70 drifters succeed as I have in learning how to drift these awesome cars.

trainwreck
12-08-2003, 10:50 AM
here ya go, ive got a farily light mk3 for you guys to check out

car is an 87 hardtop, 5 sp, non powerseats, no leather, non abs

no sound deading tar
no rear int.
no rear seats
corbeua forza seats
no rear tire
no tow hooks
no emissions
no stereo
no charcol canister
no AC
no braces on manifolds
half front bumper support is gone
a ton of other small *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* missing
no crusie control
i think i added up all the weight, and it was about 350 to 375 lbs on a scale

http://mkiiisupra.com/tom/Picture025.jpg

http://mkiiisupra.com/tom/Picture023.jpg

http://mkiiisupra.com/tom/Picture010.jpg

ma71supraturbo
12-08-2003, 10:57 AM
I've never heard about manual trannies being weak at 350rwhp. There are guys breaking them over 500hp, but those are only powershifting drag guys.


As for the A70 chassis -- I would make sure you get a hardtop. IMHO there is no sense in trying to build a car with a wet noddle chassis.


Weight reduction. You can get the car to 3100lbs for free -- just by taking stuff out. I'm at 3050lbs with a racing seat and fiberglass hood. But I still have ABS, powersteering, all glass windows, and (for the time being) a goddamn automatic.

Stock hood weighs 45lbs. Most fiberglass weigh 15, most CF weigh ~12. As for the other comments -- I think a properly built 7m-gte is fine -- just make sure you keep an eye on the oil level. Frequently guys do not expect it to burn as much oil as their car does, and they end up starving it and getting a rod knock. The head gasket is the other issue. A stock headgasket torqued to 75 ft-lbs will hold 350rwhp. If you want to go higher, I'd put in a MHG.


Driveshaft -- I would replace it with a lightweight 1-peice. I wouldn't consider it to be a "weak" link, but by now most of the car's carrier bearings are shot at the two-peices joint. The cost of the repair is almost as much as the lightweight shaft.


LSD -- Its OK when new, but if yours needs to be overhauled, you might as well spring for a better one. Same with 99% of the OEM lsd's from other cars...

Axles -- never heard of anyone breaking them, although I wouldn't be surprised if it was someone high-power using drag slicks.

Tranny -- shift fork, but only if you're a complete numbnut when you shift




I am surprised no one mentioned brakes. They border on sucking on a stock car. Mine aren't horrible at 3050lbs, but I'd still point to them as a major weak point.

Suspension -- stock and most spring/shock combos are way to tame IMHO. Coilovers are the only way to go. I'm on HKS's, but they are a bit soft. Judging by numbers, the order of best to worst coilovers is:

Cusco Zero2, Tein RA, JIC flt-A2, Cusco Zero1 (non adjustable shocks tho), then the HKS hipermax II, and then Cusco Comp-S (also not adjustable damper)

I have compiled as much info as I can find on A70 coilovers -- you can see it here: http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=155131

Front strut tower bar needs to tie to the firewall to do any good. Only one company makes it (CP racing) I think -- you can get it on www.suprasport.com. Sway bars -- I'm working on the info for my FAQ, but ST's are the least expensive and the same size at most of the more expensive. Rear sway bar is adjustable. Whiteline, Cusco, TRD and Tanabe also make them (or made them in the past)

emission
12-09-2003, 05:50 AM
That's alot of great info, we need guys like ma71supraturbo i need pay supraforums a vist once and a while miss those guys. :D

driftxtreem
12-09-2003, 06:02 AM
I think HPI also has lexan back glass for it Ill check with them and see if its available and at what price. That back and side glass weighs a ton to.

emission
12-09-2003, 06:08 AM
Originally posted by driftxtreem
I think HPI also has lexan back glass for it Ill check with them and see if its available and at what price. That back and side glass weighs a ton to.

And that damn hatch with the worn shock that knocks me in the head every morning.:confused:

ma71supraturbo
12-09-2003, 08:37 PM
Thanks, I've updated that thread with info on A70 sway bars.

J-BloodAE86
12-09-2003, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by Chas
Just keep the 7m. IT can make more hen enough power. We could get you a 1j if you really want it. You can get the 7m to put out over 300 with under 1000 of basic boltons.

what bolt ons?

Chas
12-09-2003, 11:11 PM
Boost controller, Downpipe, catback, intake.

mranlet
12-10-2003, 09:57 AM
Several supplementary points of fat-trimming:

-There are a lot of manufacturers that will make lexan windows for you. Replacing that heavy hatch and side windows would save you a whole lot of weight. If all else fails, pop out the stock windows (save the rubber surrounds) and cut your own out from Home Depot's lexan sheets - don't use that acrylic stuff though, it tends to sag when it gets warm.
-The hood is simple enough that with very rudamentary molding skills, you could make your own fiberglass (or even carbon fiber) hood with extra-thin material. Old school hot rodders would often build a frame out of pencil wire and stretch a black canvas tarp over it and then give it a thin coat of 50/50 elmer's glue and water, making it waterproof and stiff.
-Eliminating the remote hatch release and replacing the stock hood release with aluminum hood pins will save a few pounds.
-Remove the plastic inner-fender splashguards and put on a thin coating of truck bed liner (to prevent rusting).
-Tear out the headliner, sun visors (use sunglasses if you live in a bright area), glove box, any interior panels (a CF/fiberglass dash can be made easily).
-For better safety, chassis stiffness, and weight savings you could bolt in an aluminum tube just behind the front seats at shoulder heght and attach racing harnesses to it and scrap the stock seatbelt systems.
-Aftermarket lighweight adjustable shocks are better than stock ones on so many levels (no pun intended)
-The lightest wheels possible will make braking and suspension systems operate much more efficiently, since mass versus angular momentum is an exponantial relationship. If you can get a wheel that saves 10 lbs over your stock one, x4 is 40 lbs plus the additional conservation of energy while the car is in motion, which aren't as easy to calculate.

If you're planning a drift only project, you can also ditch the turn signals, front and rear bumper supports, catalytic converter, door locks, window cranks and tracks.

From here it's a matter of whether you are willing to fabricate and substitute a utliltarian tubular frame for unit-body elements which tend to use way more material than needed.

-MR

driftmunky
12-10-2003, 02:47 PM
Well, i haveno molding skills at all seeing as im barely in high school, but i do plan to learn, of course if oyu could PM me or e-mail (my addy should be in my profile) me or something letting me know how hard it would be to make a hood that would be nice (especially if i could do it for other people also to make some extra $$)

And do oyu have a pic of the "tubing to attach a racing harness" mod? i think i know hwat your saying but im not too sure....

Also, how much do the stock wheels weigh, if you know? cuz theres a few types of wheels im lookin at that are mostly around 15 lbs or so, and some as low as 11 lbs.....

driftmunky
12-10-2003, 05:37 PM
And Trainwreck, what rims are those? Front and Rear? They look nice (both of them) and do you know their weight?

ACDSupra7
12-11-2003, 12:18 AM
Refer to attachment -_^

trainwreck
12-11-2003, 10:04 AM
the wheels in the rear are reganmaster evo 17X9 with a +18 offset, thats why they kinda fill the fenders, and the front are konig traffik, 17X7, im hoping to be able to cram the reganmasters in the front as well once i get the JIC control arms on the car, so i can run neg camber enough to tuck them inside the fenders. we will see as for tires, right now i run falken Azenis in the front 225 45 17 on the 17x7 rims, and my street rear tires are 245 45 17 falken azenis too. on the courses, i run any garbage i can pick up used for a few bucks on stock steelies generally 215 or 225 width.


i conservatively added up all the weight i took out of the car the other day, and i totalted up about 360 lbs of *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*, and the car was an 87 hard top, 5sp, non abs to begin with, so im hoping to be somewhere between 31 and 3200 lbs with a light load of fuel, and the roll bar, sway bars, strut bars, ect.

driftmunky
12-11-2003, 05:26 PM
Am i the onyl person who ses nothing when you open the wieght index file?

emission
12-12-2003, 02:10 AM
Originally posted by driftmunky
Am i the onyl person who ses nothing when you open the wieght index file?

yup same here blank document ACD fix it.

supra_stephe
12-13-2003, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by J-BloodAE86
how much hp can the 7mgte put out? and where can i find 1j for sale?

well i know some one (the car is at www.speed-sorce.net) that is rocking over 400whp and has the dyno's to prove it, his *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* is extream, also hes got the dash and the two sparco's, you can get over 300hp out of a 7mge but you'll whant to use a turbo block and really good internals, just go for the turbo but maybe swap it so you insurence thinks your running an n/a. however for drifting and highways the auto is not the worts option, and now there is a triptronic shifting set up advalibole but i don't know about that. i love mine (supra) and if your ever in central MI or IL in the summer i'll be more then happy to give you a ride.

driftmunky
12-13-2003, 07:09 PM
goto 7Mpower.com , some guys there are pushin around 700RWHP from 7M's.....

J-BloodAE86
12-13-2003, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by supra_stephe
well i know some one (the car is at www.speed-sorce.net) that is rocking over 400whp and has the dyno's to prove it, his *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* is extream, also hes got the dash and the two sparco's, you can get over 300hp out of a 7mge but you'll whant to use a turbo block and really good internals, just go for the turbo but maybe swap it so you insurence thinks your running an n/a. however for drifting and highways the auto is not the worts option, and now there is a triptronic shifting set up advalibole but i don't know about that. i love mine (supra) and if your ever in central MI or IL in the summer i'll be more then happy to give you a ride.

thanks dude, i live in so cali so its a trip, but you never know, thanks. and when you say good internals do you mean just the stock internals that are in good condition or good aftermarket internals?

supra_stephe
12-13-2003, 08:04 PM
i mean aftermarket. you can hold off on the forged aluminum crank, but a good metal head gasket, good rings, etc. would be an invest ment in the long run, also (like what i'm doing (i have basicly a whole turbo motor sitting dissasimboled in my basement waiting to go in, its easy to just buy parts and stick them on whenever but save money and buy parts then do things logically and in one big step, or severaly large steps). also the speed-source web sight link does not work for me so just go seach on google for it , it would be the one about import tunning like the 5th one down when i did it. Carl crawford is like a toyota god, they guy will do/can do whatever you whant him to do. and look for supras on ebay they sell for cheap there.

trainwreck
12-14-2003, 10:56 AM
if you seriously want to build a nasty *Censored**Censored**Censored* 7m, talk to me, as mine is fully built, with major head work, shoucl put down in excess of 600 to the wheels with out juice when its all tuned, as of rignt now, im only running 18 psi, and its untuned, but its still fast as fucX

driftmunky
12-14-2003, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by trainwreck
if you seriously want to build a nasty *Censored**Censored**Censored* 7m, talk to me, as mine is fully built, with major head work, shoucl put down in excess of 600 to the wheels with out juice when its all tuned, as of rignt now, im only running 18 psi, and its untuned, but its still fast as fucX

Got any pics / times?

Chas
12-14-2003, 02:38 PM
pics? dyno sheets?;)

supra_stephe
12-14-2003, 11:28 PM
who did your head work? I like Rick Kemp (the guy who designed most of the toyota heads and a bunch of other crap.) or of corse Carl Crawford. both can rub my head when ever they want. ( did that sound bad?)

ma71supraturbo
12-16-2003, 10:08 PM
Power Modification Order, MK3 Supra Turbo

There are many possible modification orders, but this staged list is the system I recommend for increasing your 7m-gte's power while maintaining good reliability (read: this is a conservative order of modification). Please do not begin modifying unless your car is well maintained and running with no problems (i.e. proper head gasket, no overheating issues, good vacuum, good oil pressure, no misses, etc). If your car has any issues, address them now. Additionally please continue to keep up on your car's maintainence. A vacume leak at the accoridan hose, for example, is not a particularly dangerous condition for a stock mk3. But if your car is tuned for optimum power, you have taken away the extra safety of the over-rich factory tune and you could end up doing severe damage by running lean.

The following horsepower figures are estimated at the crank (bhp) and are based on a perfectly running mk3. For reference, a stock MK3 makes 230bhp (232bhp 89+) @ 6.8psi. I chose to list crank HP estimates for a few reasons. Automatic and manual cars make the same power at the engine, but manuals put more of that power to the ground (12-15% M/T drivetrain loss verses ~18-20% A/T). Additionally, modifications like light-weight flywheels and driveshafts will increase the rear wheel horsepower without actually increasing the power at the crank. And finally, because manufacturers list crank horsepower figures so this allows more of a direct comparison with newer cars. That said, it is important to realize that your car may make more or less power depending on a number of factors, so please take these and all horsepower figures with a grain of salt.

And a quick disclaimer: I have linked pictures of example modifications from MVPmotorsports.com just to break the monotony of text. This does not mean that this modification list is in any way sanctioned or warranted by MVP. Additionally there are many related topics that are beyond the scope of this FAQ, so I encourage you to do as much research as possible.

Thanks,

Jeff Gore
87T


Stage 1:
Intake, 235bhp @ 7psi
http://www.mvpmotorsports.com/Merchant/mk3pics/apexi_intake.jpg The first thing to do in increasing any engine's performance is to make sure it can flow plenty of air. The simplest way to help an engine breathe better is by installing an aftermarket intake. There are many different brands out there, but Apexi performed the best in this test. (http://mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/2/) For hints on installing a full intake kit, please see this tech tip. (http://www.supras.com/sogidb/index.php?jumpto=techcenter&tech_jumpto=display_techtip&id=9) While you are at it, I also recommend the SOGI Cold-Air Intake. (http://www.supras.com/sogidb/index.php?jumpto=techcenter&tech_jumpto=display_techtip&id=11)


Stage 2:
Cat-back, 250bhp @ ~8psi
http://www.mvpmotorsports.com/Merchant/ta_shm_mk42.JPG Continuing with the theme of better breathing, the next step is to install a cat-back exhaust. There are even more brands and styles of exhausts than intakes, so take your time and find one which best fits your needs for flow, looks, and sound. If you live in an area where corrosion is a problem, you probably will not want to settle for anything less than a full stainless system.


Stage 3:
Downpipe/elbow/primary cat or test pipe, 280bhp @ ~9psi
http://www.mvpmotorsports.com/Merchant/mk3pics/tanabedp.jpg If you still want more power, then its time to replace the restrictive stock downpipe, turbo elbow, and secondary catalytic converter. This picture shows one of the simpler downpipes, although there are some downpipes that integrate a turbo elbow and test pipe in one unit. For the environmentally concerned, Random Technologies makes a high-flow cat that will replace the secondary cat, but it obviously will not flow as well as a "test pipe." One word of caution -- downpipes are not legal in all states as they replace the primary catalytic converter.


Stage 3.5:
Gauges
http://www.mvpmotorsports.com/Merchant/apex60mm_boost.jpg While gauges do not increase power, it is important especially if you want to continue modifying. At this point, you're probably already boosting 9 psi, which exceeds the stock boost gauge. Installing a new one, along with an Exhaust Gas Temperature (EGT) gauge is also a good idea. An Air/Fuel ratio gauge is also good, but readings based on your factory O2 sensor are next to worthless so a wideband 02 sensor would be necessary. Other good gauges to consider are water temperature, oil pressure, and oil temperature. If you can afford it, look for gauges with a peak hold feature. These can be very helpful, as you cannot always pay close attention to your gauges when you are driving hard.


Stage 4:
Boost controller, 300bhp @ just under fuel cut
http://www.mvpmotorsports.com/Merchant/bl_sbcr.jpg Now that your engine can breathe freely and you can monitor what it's doing, it is time to turn up the boost with a boost controller. There are inexpensive manual boost controllers out there, but I have found it to be a pain to get out and adjust them every time the weather changes. The solution is an electronic boost controller which can not only be adjusted from inside the car, but some can also learn to better control your wastegate allowing the turbo to spool much faster.


Stage 5:
Intercooler and hardpipes, 320bhp @ just under fuel cut
http://www.mvpmotorsports.com/Merchant/hks_fmic.jpg If you still want more power, you will need to replace your stock intercooler and the restrictive stock intercooler piping. Compressing air creates heat, which can lead to detonation. Since you want to turn up the boost even more, you'll need an intercooler that can not only flow better but also do a better job of keeping the air cool. It also is a good idea to replace your factory bypass valve to prevent compressor surge.


Stage 5.5
fuel pump
http://www.gtpro.com/productimages/dpump.jpg When you try to boost too high, your ECU will cut fuel momentarily to prevent engine damage. Now that you want to exceed that limit, it is time to upgrade your fuel system. While it is possible to boost a little over fuel cut on the stock fuel system, it is not recommended -- especially if you have your sights set significantly higher. The first step to upgrading your fuel system is to then replace the fuel pump with one that can move more fuel. Walbro and the stock MKIV tt pump are common choices.


Stage 6:
Lexus AFM/550 injectors, 340bhp @ 15psi
http://www.rceng.com/injectors1.gif One of the most common ways around fuel cut is to use an Air Flow Meter off a Lexus V8. The basic gist is this air flow meter allows some unmetered air through tricking the stock ECU into thinking it is getting less air than it really is. Because the ECU thinks it is getting less air, the boost at which you hit fuel cut goes up. To offset this extra air, 550 injectors replace the stock 440 units. Details on this upgrade can be found here (http://www.supras.com/~riemer/lexusriemer/lexusnotes.html) Recently, PHR has announced they will make a "map ecu" that will allow consumers to use a much less restrictive MAP sensor instead of an AFM. Details on this product can be found here. (http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144196)


Stage 7:
Fuel tuning device and dyno tuning, 375bhp @ 16psi
http://www.mvpmotorsports.com/Merchant/apexsafc.jpg At this point, the car could benefit from some fine-tuning. Chances are you will be running rich, so an air/fuel controller can lean out the mixture and help further raise fuel cut. There are many options out there, so do a little research and decide on the best unit for your goals. If you must have the best, a standalone is the way to go but it is much more expensive, and is more difficult to tune (chances are you will have to have a professional tune it).



Stage 8:
Upgraded turbo
http://www.mvpmotorsports.com/Merchant/mk3pics/sp7m.jpg You have now reached the useable limits of the stock turbo. It is possible to further increase the boost, but the turbo will be blowing such hot air that you will experience diminishing returns. Which turbo you go with will depend entirely on how far you want to take your Supra. If 450bhp or less is ok you can go with an upgraded CT26. 550bhp or less and you can go with a bolt-on hybrid turbo. If that is not enough, then you will be looking at a bigger turbo that will probably involve some custom work. If you do have your sights set that high, you probably know what you’re doing or will be taking the car to a professional.





And as an aside -- There are people making lots of power with the 7m-gte. Will Neely is at 730rwhp on the stock computer (plus piggybacks). Some guy in Australia is at 714kw (not sure of the exact power conversion). HKS made over 800hp back in the day from a de-stroked 7m-gte in their drag car. And there are rumors of a guy pushing over 1000hp in a 7m-gte in a MK2 drag car (apparently he uses stock engines, but replaces them after every event)

J-BloodAE86
12-16-2003, 10:17 PM
370 hp and stock turbo? with a 7m?? sounds good to me, does it really work?

ma71supraturbo
12-16-2003, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by J-BloodAE86
370 hp and stock turbo? with a 7m?? sounds good to me, does it really work?


bhp so about 305 at the wheels. There are guys making 350rwhp on the stock turbo, but they are really pushing the limits of "safe". The good news is a $450 rebuild/upgraded stock turbo is good for 400-450rwhp at ~21psi.

The engine is strong except for the factory head bolt torque (~54ft-lbs). 350rwhp on a stock headgasket torqued to 75 ft-lbs is relatively safe as long as you don't detonate. Metal head gaskets can get expensive as the surface of the head and block have to be nearly perfect to get a good seal. This almost always means tearing down the block to have machined (in addition to the head), so most people save the MHG for when they do a full rebuild. The other "weak" point are the rod bearings. There are two common causes for rod knock -- the first is when you take your engine to a machine shop used to domestic engine tolerances. Make sure if you rebuild your engine to follow the specs Toyota gives in the TSRM (available online here: http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/library/TSRM/ ) The second cause is when people run their engine low on oil.

Other than that, the 7m is a good engine. The stock and upgraded stock turbos spool pretty well and are capable of plenty of power for track/drifting use.

ma71supraturbo
12-16-2003, 10:35 PM
There are also some short-cuts you can take if you want to stay <400hp.

1st you don't have to buy some fancy downpipe. A guy on Supraforums with the username "becauseIcan" makes an integrated downpipe/turbo elbow for $240. Combine that with any 3" catback and a test pipe and you've got a cheap full exhaust.

You can get intake adapters on ebay for like $10 which let you use a generic k&N style cone filter. Or you can use a drop-in k&N filter and cut open your airbox.

You can also shim the wastegate with some washers so it will stay closed longer. But manual boost controllers are dirt cheap anyway and some say shimming the wastegate puts some extra strain on it. All this will get you to 300bhp for like $600. If you know someone that can weld, you can buy mandrel bends from JC whitney or wherever and make your own exhaust. And you can also make your own intercooler piping (the stock IC piping is horribly restrictive -- and prone to leaking on 15 year old mk3's). The stock IC isn't that bad, and will work for 350hp -- although drifters probably should upgrade since they'll be putting the engine under load for longer and at lower speeds than the typical supra owner. Then if you want to boost a little over fuel cut, HKS makes a fuel cut defenser. You can run about ~15psi on the stock fuel system -- just keep an eye on EGT's.

driftmunky
12-18-2003, 01:24 PM
great replies MA71turbo, some great info in there, this thread should somehow be moved to supraforums in the MKIII department and made into a sticky....

mranlet
12-18-2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by driftmunky
Well, i haveno molding skills at all seeing as im barely in high school, but i do plan to learn, of course if oyu could PM me or e-mail (my addy should be in my profile) me or something letting me know how hard it would be to make a hood that would be nice (especially if i could do it for other people also to make some extra $$)

Exactly my doctrine, making it and selling them - that's how the aftermarket expands.

10 steps to hood success:
1 - Detach your hood from the car and clean it with some dish soap and let it dry. If you want to mold in a hump, scoop or cowl use modeling clay - available at any art supply store - and build it up gradually.

2 - Put some mold release on it. In a pinch, you could use Vaselene, but make sure that you have a ncie even coat and that it is as smooth as possible.

3 - In a well veltelated area and with proper safety equipment, mix up your resin for the F-glass and lay on pre-cut sheets of fabric about 12" wide in strips long enough to extend past the front and rear edges of the hood. It will probably take somewhere around 10 strips, since it is best to use 2 layers and have them overlap slightly with a medium weight fabric. (Don't try to use those little repair kits, or you'll wind up spending a lot more money than if you just got the fabric and the resin).

4 - Build up the thickness with a few thin coats of resin or until you're out of it.

5 - let dry for a day or 2 (it can take 3 days for a nice cure in a humid area)

6 - Carefully and patiently seperate the fiberglass from your hood. If it is being stubborn, you can use a rubber door stop or plastic paint stirrer to help it along, but don't use anything that could scratch the fiberglass or dent the hood. The top surface of your fiberglass piece will be a little bumpy from the resin. Now you can either sand it smooth and trim it up with a fine-toothed saw (being sure to wear grubby clothes covering your arms and a dust mask and goggles), OR you can use this piece as a mold repeating steps 2 through 5 to obtain a piece that should theoretically be the same as your hood. If you chose to use this piece as the mold, you may be able to get away with using a lighter weight cloth for the actual hood, but don't skimp too much, since it will have to be able to hold it's shape at high speed. If you are planning to do some sort of V-mount vent, you can add modeling clay to the mold.

7 - After you've decided to use the origional piece as the mold or the hood itself and have prepared your fiberglass hood replacement piece, trim it up and test fit it on your car.

8 - If it doesn't fit you can make minor adjustments with a fine sanding block, don't use a metal file, but remember that you can take away material but it's more difficult to add it (although possible with fiberglass). If it does fit, you'll have to decide whether you want to use your stock hinges or use a 4-hood-pin system which would allow you to lose the weight of the cable latch and catch.

9 - If you hinge it, you can drill through the hood and simply bolt the hinges on through the holes. You may need to add some washers for it to sit in the stock location. If you want to keep the top of the hood smooth, you can make a mold of the bolt pick-ups from the underside of the hood the same way you made the other part and fuse them together with a healthy dose of resin. If you pin it, just install the pins (one in each corner) and then drill your holes. It's easier to match the holes to the pins rather than the other way around. This is when you'll want to paing the hood if you chose to (paint=weight ;) ).

10 - Pin the hood or latch it up and roll!


And do oyu have a pic of the "tubing to attach a racing harness" mod? i think i know hwat your saying but im not too sure....

I don't have a pic, but imagine a rear strut tower bar with a racing harness attached to that. If you look inside of most of the WRC cars, they have the harness attached to a piece (usually WAY far back) that spans the interior of the car.

Also, how much do the stock wheels weigh, if you know? cuz theres a few types of wheels im lookin at that are mostly around 15 lbs or so, and some as low as 11 lbs.....

That depends on your car. Most wheels seem to weigh between 20 and 30 lbs. You could get a good estimate by measuring the weight of your spare and multiplying by WHEEL WIDTH/SPARE WIDTH. Most ricer and bling bling wheels weigh about the same as factory wheels, but some thin steel and aluminum wheels weigh considerably less. If you increase the radius of your wheel you will be displacing rubber with steel or aluminum so it could concievably add weight.

11 lbs is very good. Rota 15"x6.5" weigh 12 lbs and aren't too expensive. Several of the American Racing wheels are built with weight in mind and are super-cheap ($750 for a set of 4 including tires in some cases). Some of the pricier wheels weigh as little as 8.5 lbs - the lightest wheel I've ever seen was something like 5.5 lbs, granted it made out of carbon and was something like $5k for one.

Racing wheels unsed to be made out of Magnesium, which is where the term "Mags" came from. Magnesuim is extremely light and very rigid however, if the wheel got too hot from brakes or tire heat the wheel could "flameout" or essentially catch on fire and burn up while the car is moving. I wouldn't reccomend using Mags unless you have excellent brake ducts and have plenty of tire to sheild it from the road surface.

After bending enough rims and burning through enough tires (which is completely respectable) you get a feel for what kind of wheels and tires fit your ability, your car's suspension, and your wallet. You will most likely go through a few sets of wheels in your first few years of drifting, so go ahead and try different things - 15"s, 16"s, 17"s, 205's, 215's, 45 series, 40 series, +40 offset, +20 offset, steel, aluminum - all of these can effect the handling dynamics substantially. Experiment - it's only money!

I'd also reccomend:
"Secrets of Solo Racing" by Henry Watt - $10
"How To Make Your Car Handle" by Fred Puhn - $20
"Performance Handling - Techniques for the 1990s" by Don Alexander (which I believe is out of print, but an EXCELLENT book get it on Ebay here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3573982444&category=1132 )

Hope this helps!!
-MR

Chas
12-18-2003, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by ma71supraturbo
Some guy in Australia is at 714kw (not sure of the exact power conversion).

Sure its not PS? 714kw = 957.5hp

driftmunky
12-18-2003, 06:34 PM
so let me get this straight (wouldnt want to try it and find out a step was missing or something)

1. you take off the stock hood,
2. put some mold release on the hood,
3. put some fabric (and kind in particular?) on top of the mold release which is on the hood,
4. lay on the F-glass resin (about how much do you use, and when doing this do you add a layer then let it dry a bit then add another or what?)
5. let it dry for a couple days
6. remove hood from on top of stock hood,
7. clean it up

i kidn of summarized it but jsut wanted to check with you real quick (thinking of maybe trying one of these for my bro for x-mas.....) and about how much lighter will this be over stock? And how much will all the supplies and such cost?

mranlet
12-19-2003, 07:16 AM
3 - The fabric has to be fiberglass fabric - you can't use denim or velvet or anything like that (although a velvet hood would be slick)
You can think of mold release as essentially a big sheet of saran wrap in paste form. If the hood is flat enough you probably could use saran wrap and have the edges folded over the edge of the hood and taped on.

4 - The resin will kind of control how much gets used on its own. Don't use globs and globs of it but put it on like you'd brush paint on. I've always put the first layer of cloth down and brushed resin over it and put the 2nd layer down so that it can get some of that resin action and then brushed more resin on until it looked pretty smooth.

You'd have to start now if you want it done for X-mas. Personally, I'd just make him a miniature hood using a piece of carbroads as the form (hood) and have it cut out in the shape of his hood, and then tell him that you'll make one or something like that. If you allready have the safety equipment, a veltelated area and a drop cloth for the drips, then the fabric and resin will probably be something like $50. If you've never done glassing before I'd suggest getting more stuff than you'll think you need, because in all probability you'll mess something up at one point or another and projects always to take more than it seems like they should.

The hood of my Subaru Legacy weighed around 45 or 50lbs including sound deadening, but my lightest F-glass hood was around 17 lbs. I'm assuming he drvives something like an AE86 or 240SX, both of which have fairly long hoods. Granted that his is 50 lbs, you may be able to chop 20 lbs off of that depending on the weight of cloth.

It may not seem like much, but every little bit counts. If you can do 5 things that save you 20 lbs, you've got a hundred lbs cut. Plus, fiberglass panel's won't dent or rust and you will nost likelly lose the stock hinges and latch (15-20 lbs of saved difference from aluminum pins)

Hope this helps!

-MR

ma71supraturbo
01-08-2004, 04:03 AM
Originally posted by Chas
Sure its not PS? 714kw = 957.5hp

Oops I misquoted. The figure was in kw, and converted to 714rwhp (on the low side cause I guess aussie dyno's read low)


As for the f-glass hood, thats exactly what I did to make mine, only I had to make a mold of the bottom supports too. In total it came to <15lbs (stock was 45)

mk3mann
03-28-2005, 02:23 PM
Rota now makes the slipstream in 17/16x8 and 9's. No custom offsets as of right now though...i believe the offsets are 35mm :confused:

just food for though ;)

And excellent write up on the Fiberglass hood! I will do that this sommer for sure...I dont feel like paying $600 for a carbon hood....when i am just going to paint over it..and 3lbs more over carbon is worth the sacrifice....and darn...anything is better than that 45lb monster of a hood! :eek:

-Jonathan

ma71supraturbo
03-28-2005, 05:13 PM
stock "sawblades" are around 24lbs if I recall correctly. I've seen 16-17" wheels in the mid teens. That said, I like cheap strong wheels. If I was competitively road racing, I'd get SSR comps or the like, but for sliding on rough roads and possibly hitting curbs, stock all the way

kurumakun
03-28-2005, 08:12 PM
Try www.venus-auto.com for 1j and 2jz gte motors. They usually have them in stock and there pretty reasonably priced.

ma71supraturbo
03-28-2005, 08:44 PM
I've also heard a lot of good things about jarco - the only bad things are about the price ($2500 for an jza70 auto front clip, $3000 for a manual +shipping)