*Help* Low Power Drifting

[FluffyBunnyFeet]

Here is where i need some help.

Ive got a 4AC powered open diff SR5 coupe corolla.

I recently went drifting with some locals and they gave me some tips and got me out sideways. Here is the problem, i can start the drift, keep it until the center (or apex) of the corner but i lack the power to keep it through the corner. I was thinking of clutch kicking it to keep it going but im not sure how bad that is going to be on my tranny. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance

-Mike

[Aiki-Drift]

Those are the woes of driving an underpowered car. I'd clutch kick it bro. F!%k it! Just do it! Once, twice. three times won't hurt. Put some el crapo tires in the back and I don't see why it should be a problem every once and a while.

Drift on!

[cfrost]

just clutch kick, you're in a corolla...your tranny should be okay, just get a new clutch when the time comes.

Have you thought about welding your diff?

[soultron]

Same as above, clutch kick and crappy rears, however, if you can get a stiffer sway bar, or harder shocks and springs, that can help a bit.

[Nemesis]

stiffen up the rear, sways and what not...fabricate your own stuff if u have too...

do NOT get bad rear tires, but get all weather type tires...you might mistake some of the guys' advice for getting *censored* tires in the rear..which should not be...just get all weather type tires from like pepboys or someone as such...

i would do this but i know some would object, but have you thought about lowering the center of gravity? Like chopping springs...*cough*cough*...or cheap lowering springs or something...

also clutching kicking is a good idea, but if your worried about that, try entering the corner with some more speed...that's the cool thing about under powered car's it gives you the ability to enter corner's faster...

[SidewaysGts]

It does? Why?

I see nothing wrong with cheapo tires, its a great and easy way to experience oversteer while your new, it WONT lead to the "best" drifting- but at this point its not an issue. Its all about learning to control going sideways. Besides, id rather burn up 20 bucks then 100.+

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by SidewaysGts

It does? Why?

I see nothing wrong with cheapo tires, its a great and easy way to experience oversteer while your new, it WONT lead to the "best" drifting- but at this point its not an issue. Its all about learning to control going sideways. Besides, id rather burn up 20 bucks then 100.+

yea cheap tires are good...not BAD tires...like...cracked and stuff, but do get some decent tires..especially if your car is for daily use...

[Mike_S13]

clutch kick man...i clutch kick all day. I'm mr.clutch-kick to my pal. My tranny is fine so far.

[driftersil80]

I posted a question a while back about clutch kicking safety. Its fine. Do it. Kick that clutch, then kick it again. Kick it all day. Eventually all you will need is a new clutch but those arent expensive. So yea, enjoy yourself!

[TIREKILLER]

Hi all,first let me introduce myself a bit.

I drive a pretty stock S13 coupe. I have roughly 130HP at the wheels and my car weighs around 2600Lbs. I consider myself somewhat low powered, although I do have the advantage of having more torque than a Corolla. I dont have a ton of money I can spend on my car, so I do the best I can with what I have. For a long time I just used my open diff (now i have a VLSD).

The thing I found that helped was to try not to lift EVER. With an open diff. and low power if you lift its over. I try to enter with as much speed as posible, and stay on throttle all the way through the corner. If you do need to slow down a little or increase your angle to tackle a decreasing radius,you can feather the brakes with your left foot without lifting with you right foot. For a larger radius turn your gonna have to sacrifice some angle to be able to cary your drift as far as you need to.

When its all said and done the only way to really get better is to practice practice practice.

[soultron]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

stiffen up the rear, sways and what not...fabricate your own stuff if u have too...

do NOT get bad rear tires, but get all weather type tires...you might mistake some of the guys' advice for getting *censored* tires in the rear..which should not be...just get all weather type tires from like pepboys or someone as such...

Yeah, my bad, I meant cheapo walmart bargin bin tires, not baldies.

[TIREKILLER]

I run used tires that I dig out of the dumpster at my local tire shops. I run those on the rear and Azenis sports up front. Even ran that setup at both FormulaD events so far, and won The Houston DriftShowoff event on em too.

[Nemesis]

ok let me make self straight

tires are a great place to start when it comes to trying to get better @ drifting, i again will not agree with getting BAD tires, used tires are ok, but i would still reccomend cheap tires form walmart or pepboys...even @ events used tires are good, but they wear down faster and u spend more time changing tires than drifting, so i'd still say get some cheap tires from walmart and drift those...i too have gotten old used tires from a local tire shop for FREE but i checked all of them through to make sure they were in decent enough condition for daily driving but also had enough treat to last longer than a month (including the occasional drift session); they go on a set of practice wheels i have so during the summer i drive with them on...and yea...you know the rest...

make sure your tires are in good condition, i can not stress this enough...difting is about controlled grip...keep that in mind

weld your spider gears if you plan on gettina LSD in the near future

[FluffyBunnyFeet]

Hey, well before i read any of the replys, i went out and tried the clutch kick mid drift and YEAH BOYEE! Sideways. Amazing how simple it was. I was actualy able to go around 1 corner and 1/2 way choku dori to another cone but i ran the cone over from not enough practice, still was fun as hell though. Ill post up some pics in the photo video gallery. Ill have video up on sunday or monday. Thanks a bunch

[FluffyBunnyFeet]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

ok let me make self straight

tires are a great place to start when it comes to trying to get better @ drifting, i again will not agree with getting BAD tires, used tires are ok, but i would still reccomend cheap tires form walmart or pepboys...even @ events used tires are good, but they wear down faster and u spend more time changing tires than drifting, so i'd still say get some cheap tires from walmart and drift those...

Lucky me, a local tire shop sells tires that will fit my 13" meshes for $12 a peice

$24 and slap some new rubber on the rear. WOOT


Oh ya, btw

Here is a clip of how bad the understeer "was"



I'll post up better once i go back this sunday. Thanks again
-Mike

[Ghost of Duluth]

In that video it looks like you are going straight in the corner and expecting power and weight to kick the rear end out. Ain't gonna happen. What you need to try is clutch kicking at the beginning of your slide. Either way you are gonna need mondo speed so you can carry it through the corner. The way I do it is to run hell bent in the middle of the line, go inside then flick back to the outside, clutch kick it then tap the brakes as the rear starts to go out then full throttle. My car is bone stock on an open diff and anyone can tell you I pretty much linked the entire course repeatedly at the DG Turner event. If you start to lose angle, throttle lift it and apply some E-Brake in there. Linking is harder on low power but if you can hold the first turn through the apex then you can straighten the wheel and use what power you do have to shoot you across the line into the next turn and use a little e-brake to initiate and hold.

I also run 45 lbs of air pressure in the rears at the start of the day. As they heat up this will build. Higher pressures make it easier to break out and hold it. I ran some harder compound Kumho's and they were great. Later in the day I switched over to some Fm901's (140 tread count I think they were) and had a lot of trouble getting it to hang out and break out like on the Kumhos. I would def use a harder compound tire. Cheaper that way too.

In a lower powered car, especially one with open diff, you cannot relay on power to initiate. So many people try to power over in stock cars and especially S-13s and they either hellishly understeer or get it out and then snap back. Gotta learn other techniques.

[FluffyBunnyFeet]

that is what im going around the track doing, turn in, out, in/e-brake, clutch (again if needed) and its really coming out good. I dont have any video of this yet cuz it was too dark

This is one where you can barley see it but its when i just got the idea of clutch kick. I went in and didnt get it sliding before the cone so i just stood on the gas and kicked it and was happy with the results.



And understeer slides, alot of them, and this is the damage caused, thankfully now i can get it sideways before this happens.


Oh ya, btw, that is the right front wheel.

[Drift For Food]

Yeah, it's tough in an underpowered car. You don't have the freedom to just gas it and break the rear end loose.

Good things were stated so far.

You'll need to rely on more speed. Get used to coming in as fast as you can. The throttle will only allow you to maintain speed and that's about it.

How are you coming into the corner/drift? How wide are you going with the drift?

Up to the apex, you're really not throttling the car. If anything, you're still bleeding speed through braking and/or from a feint into the corner. Let it slide and bleed off. You'll set up for the corner using the right entry speed. You'll start the drift with braking or feint if coming fast. If you're already at the corner speed, you'll be pegging the throttle and attemping to break it free. clutch kick, stabbing the throttle on and off quick, downshifting into a lower gear without rev matching, e-brake, anything that will upset the rear tires. Be mean to the car; you almost have to sometimes, whatever works. Things will smooth out when you get better and can hold the car at the limits better.

Now here's the trick to making it work. Drift shallow, very shallow, and use very little countersteering, drift with the steering instead. What this does is allow you to drift carrying speed and you'll actually hold the drift with the front tires, NOT the rear. You don't have the power to drift wide and "showy." Shallow drifts are efficient, and efficient is what you need in a low powered car. As well, steering is your control. In a high powered car, you can adjust throttle and play with the rear end. In a low powered car, you can't. You just peg it and hope it stays out. How you keep it out is with the steering. Use less countersteering. If the rear end isn't staying out, steer in more. Pull the front end in more and force the rear end out. You're using the extra front grip you have to make the drift work. This creates a more efficient use of both the front and rear tires around the corner. As well, you can run faster into the corner as you will be pulling harder into the corner with the front tires. It's kind of goofy thinking about the drift this way, but it works. This'll keep your drift going. If it ends too early, i.e. can't possibly maintain the drift longer, you came in too slow. It's all momentum and efficient use of both the rear AND front tires.

That is all after you start the drift. If you are having trouble even starting the drift, then you'll want to work on your initiation techniques. Braking generally works well. Come in hot, and brake some into the corner. The added weight shifted to the front can get the rear end to come out. A variation is just a stab of the brake just before the corner. Brake, let off and imediately turn in. If more persuation is needed becuase of too much understeer or a very front biased brake setup, you can feint as well. Coming up to the corner, turn away from the corner and load the cars weight to one side. Then flick the weight out by quickly turning the other way. This will essentially toss the weight of the car outward and force the car to rotate. It can be combined with braking as well and is pretty much capable of making any car start a drift. It also requires no throttle input and thus no power needs. Any car reguardless of power or drivetrain configuration can do these techniques to start a drift. I started on these in my old fwd Lesabre on my gravel back roads around my house. 2 years later, and two very different cars later, they're still my staples and still get the job done. Through feint, braking, and steering adjustments, you can bring any car into a drift and hold it through the exit with no throttle input. Getting on the gas just allows you maintain speed.

[Ghost of Duluth]

Yea man, and for god's sake don't be like most other boobs out there and run like hell from teh start line, spinning tires trying the manji and then slam the brakes on and cut it to half speed to enter the corner to power over....god I hate that.

Like this guy at the DG event. Man I think he was the only one to spin out before the first turn. Was in a Z06, it was a sweet car too but he would just burn out like a drunken Nascar fan leaving the drive-in after seeing Smokey and the Bandit 1-3 in a triple feature, then slam the brakes and do a combination of power overs and snapbacks around the rest of the course. Great stuff. Nice guy though and he was trying. His snap backs were less dramatic by the end of the day. He cut it down to maybe 20 per run instead of 35.

It just makes for cleaner run to be going the speed you want to enter with when you enter, not on the brakes. Less things to concentrate on because god knows, there's plenty to concentrate on when hitting that first corner. Set up, line, throttle, brakes, asian girl squating in a mini-skirt, angle....lots of stuff. ADD rules.

[Tuner]

Originally Posted by Ghost of Duluth

.....there's plenty to concentrate on when hitting that first corner. ....asian girl squating in a mini-skirt....

How did you find out my secret!!?!?!?!


Yep, low powered cars need to carry speed through the turns. Don't even try to power over.

[Ghost of Duluth]

We both from the ATL boyeeee, we think alike.

Heard you were at the Dragon this weekend....so was I. Both days, almost got head on'd by a Jesse James wannabe with is grotesquely obese wife when they overcooked the corner by the dam on their Harley Fat Glide. I had to actually run off the road and banged up the exhaust to miss em. Them 2 whales wold have wrecked the entire front end on the car. Oh and the cops!!! 50 oficers and a Helicopter for 11 miles of road. Sad sad. They did have 2 fatalities though Friday night I hear and add that to the Hiyabusa club weekends 3 fatalities and the cops are a little uptight. You see their new trick? One of em stands in the road so you have to go around him, then they pull you for crossing the double yellow. I got it on video tape, it's great.

[Tuner]

Yea, the GAP is getting bad. I wasn't there this weekend though Who do you think this is?

[Ghost of Duluth]

Wow then there is another Miata Mike with a green supercharged Miata with black 3 spoke rims. Some guy was running with your doppleganger up there. Told me all about you (doppleganger) and your car and some guy that was with you named Lawrence. Even knew that Lawrence is a friend of Chads or something. We must catch this bandit.

Yea the Dragon is getting real bad. Harleys, cops, Semi's and pretty much anything else you can imagine have consired to detroy the perfection that was the Dragon. But the record got lower. Under 9 mins from the Bridge at the bottom to the State line. Video of it but you can't get your hands on it. In the video he drives one handed

Insane.

[Tuner]

Originally Posted by Ghost of Duluth

Wow then there is another Miata Mike with a green supercharged Miata with black 3 spoke rims. Some guy was running with your doppleganger up there. Told me all about you (doppleganger) and your car and some guy that was with you named Lawrence. Even knew that Lawrence is a friend of Chads or something. We must catch this bandit.

Yea the Dragon is getting real bad. Harleys, cops, Semi's and pretty much anything else you can imagine have consired to detroy the perfection that was the Dragon. But the record got lower. Under 9 mins from the Bridge at the bottom to the State line. Video of it but you can't get your hands on it. In the video he drives one handed

Insane.

GAWD I need to change my avatar. I'm not Miata Mike. It's Marty!!!!!! My street Miata is white, but I also have the flat black one that was at SFS2 LMAO!

[FluffyBunnyFeet]

Carrying the speed is what im doing, and no, im not being a "boob" and spining the tires and the line just to slow down at the corner, i get it up to around 40mph, feint, e-brake and once its lost traction, clutch kick for more angle when needed

http://www.drifting.com/forums/pictures-and-video-clips/14464-sundays-drift-session-m3s-and-aes.html

Thats from my drift session this past sunday. And yes, i did crash. Gotta learn, at least im out there trying. Just wish i didnt smash my mesh, now ive got a odd ball set