Power steering?

[s13/350z]

For those that have driven with and without (powersteering), do you feel that it helps the car feel smoother with it, can you not tell the differnce, or does it feel better without? Just looking for opinions on it, I have driven differnt cars with and without but never the same car with or without so I was wondering what people prefer.

[FCPilot]

it really feels like i have better control over my fc. seriously. i can feel the road a lot better, and i can feel how hard im throwing it out. i don't know, u just have to try it. u'll feel it. that's all it really is. some people might feel more comfortable with p/s, but it really makes no difference at high speeds, its like u have it, but with more feedback from cornering. u can feel when to countersteer more or less. its weird, but in a good way

[GotNismo?]

i prefer with. cuz parking with no power steering blows.

[cfrost]

I recommend you stick with the power steering, even though when you're driving daily at normal speeds you can't really feel the difference, you'll start to feel it on the track

vote for power steering

[sdtouge]

my powers teering belt broke last night after drift day, i tried to drift some last night with out iit and its ok, but is still really hard to steer quickly and somewhat accuratly imo. it sucks pretty much

for gripping some say that you get better feedback but with out power steering its kinda scary because it always feels as if you are about to get the worst understeeer ever.

[new_to_drift]

yes but the people that are voting for power steering,have u ever even drove on a daily basis w/o power steering?cause i had it on my 89 240sx coupe,but after that died,i bought an EG6 w/B18C1 in it and that doesnt have power anything including steering,i mean i think that u have more control over the cars over/understeer w/o power steering.I do SCCA solo racing,which is just like gymkana just minus the drifting part.the only hard part i could say about not having power steering is when your moving at slow speeds w/o the gas and turning.other than that,after a while u cant even tell.my vote is for not having power steering.

[sdtouge]

i have driven liek 500 miles no power steering so far, i still cant wait to put it back on. maye its just because im a *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* , but on the other hand my friend also autox's with out power steering and he says he doesnt miss it.

[s13/350z]

thanks for the replies, I feel that w/o power steering I get more feedback and can "feel" the road better but its kind of a hassle daily driving it, and to me it makes the car seem "heavy" when drifting but that could just be in my head.

[TrendLineMotor]

Originally Posted by cfrost

vote for power steering

What he said

[tululu]

well, i competed in the 1st and 2nd round of Formula D
w/o power steering and it sucked. after coming back
with two sprained wrists after atlanta event, i've decided
the fix the problem. now i have powersteering on my
chaser and it's great!!! i can actually drift with hurting
wrists.....
it might be ok w/o if your car is light.

hiro

[GotNismo?]

im no pro, but ive drifted in a 90 240sx w/o ps and i drive my 88 fc3s w/power steering, i look back and i wish i woulda had ps while learning the basics. but i guess its made me a better driver but like i said before. WITH

[SilverGhost]

my p/s is out on my s13, and i used to have it, and boy, i cant wait to get it back. it makes driving daily very hard, and cornering, you just cant get the wheel around fast enough if you start to slide out. also, i heard of a guy in my area that was drifting an S13 w/o p/s and when he apexed this one corner, the car jounced, which threw the wheel back so hard that it broke his arm. so i vote powersteering. but for auto-x in civics and stuff, no p/s is awsome. i have driven my friends EG6 w/ B16A1 that has no p/s, and its great. but what understood is the difference in caster angles between an S13 and a civic. a civic has neg caster of about 2.5 degrees, whereas an s13 has neg caster of 6.5 degrees, approximatly equal to a 911 turbo. this makes low speed steering very hard on the S13, but not too difficult on the civic. and just as a reffrence point, a Z32 300zx TT has neg 9 caster.... thats my two cents

[Drift For Food]

The feel with and without powersteering will vary quite a bit between cars. I've driven a couple non-ps cars and more with ps. The one's without were an old '87 Civic(mom's, one my learner cars way back, first stick too). The second was my brother's old '88 Ranger turned mine when my Lesabre died on me. The Civic was way back, so I don't remember a lot about it. I just remember parking was a pain. The Ranger I had more recently. I came from the ps Lesabre and went back to ps with my current Subaru.

One thing to remember is the way the steering works. A car without ps that is designed for non-ps driving will compensate using leverage. The rotation from lock to lock will be a lot more, say 6 to 8 turns. A ps car on the other hand will have a lock to lock of say 2 to 4 turns. Without powersteering, you gain precision, but you lose speed.

My Ranger had 8 turns lock to lock. On a tight 90, you just had to let the wheel go. You physically couldn't turn it that fast. Small adjustments meant big movements. It was a pile of a truck and you got crap for feel. It worked ok, but it was nothing like a good car would have. One thing I appreciated about that thing is it made my hand work so very fast.

Going from it, my Subie was so easy to toss around and catch. 8 to 3(?) turns does that. With ps, you are also able to flick the car around easier. There's no fighting the steering wheel. Driving effort was reduced.

So what about feel? Well, this is highly car dependent, very highly car dependent. Reguardless of ps or not, what you feel will be determined by the engineers that built the car. Ps has very little to do with it. I'm not saying that ps doesn't reduce feel. I'm sure it does. There has to be some loss of sensitivity by running input through a ps system. I just think the engineering design of the ps system and chassis/suspension setup has a much greater effect on what one feels.

My Lesabre was a good example. Compared to my current Subaru and my previous Ranger, my Lesabre transmitted suprisingly accurate steering feel. You could distiguish small bumps, verying levels of grip on a surface(gravel, snow/ice), and you could even feel the flex of a tire. It was ps, a strong one. You could toss that car around like nothing with just a single finger on the wheel. It was designed for old people, but it still was able to transmit an accurate feel, albeit not a real strong feel.

The Ranger was a pile. Everything was loose and sloppy. It was old and falling appart. The manual steering provided very little feedback, and what it did transmit was mushy and muddled. You had a tool for precision but the feedback wasn't accurate.

My Subaru has a good, strong powersteering. My Lesabre felt light and feathery to move; this had some resistance built in. It too is easy to toss with little user effort. The lower turns makes for quick movements. With good tires, a tiny flick can get the car sideways. The problem is that you recieve almost no feedback from the wheel. Short of some tracking feel, the small details are almost non-existent. They're there, but you really, really, really have to "listen" for them. It's very different from the old Lesabre I was driving.

Every car is different. Ps and non-ps is really just an afterthought.

Also realize, if you take a ps car and disable/remove the powersteering, you will have adverse effects. A non-ps car is designed to be non-ps. When you take a ps car and remove the ps, you don't get the same steering design as a non-ps designed car. You get one that's much worse. Depending on the design, it can be almost undrivable. Instead of 8 turns to make steering relatively easy, you have 4 and double the required effort. That's just the gearing aspect. You also have the ps system which can play its own havoc on your ability to steer. I don't know enough about ps systems to specifically state facts, so I'll just leave it at that. I'm not sure what additional influence a non-driven ps system has on the steering system when you're not driving it with the belt. It's not a good idea just to disable the ps and think you have a non-ps car. You should really put the non-ps steering system in if one was available for your car.

In its simplest form:
Ps: speed and little effort
Non-ps: precision but requires more user speed and effort.
No two ps and non-ps systems are the same

[toycar]

my AE85 has nopower steering.

it is pretty easy to throw around AND i have a smaller diameter steering wheel, makes it about 3 turns from lock to lock...

really notice no diference between my ae92 (FWD with P/S) and the "85...

on saying that it only weighs about 850KGS and is RWD when compared to the ae92...

[Delphince]

I've always been a fan of rack and pinion. So much information is lost to the driver when the road doesn't respectably push back in a turn. Though I have to say that driving and parking a 3600-lb BMW 733i with a failed power steering pump for a week was not a joyful experience (though sneaking out with my brother and actually getting that heavy pig to drift was a venture steeped with hilarity).

Though I'm a bit biased — my car of choice is a featherweight in the front, so it's not as taxing on me as FFs or FRs.