Technique Difference between D1 and For. D?

[2501]

I have been observing drifitng for a while, and while I still dont have a rwd car, I still notice and see alot of different driving styles exhibited from people practicing drifting. One thing I notice is that there is a vast amount of ways to initiate a drift, yet it seems that most amature drifters use only clutch-kicking and ebrake to initiate their drift which is a valid example of, but you would think they would try other ways.

But I am not here to pick apart other people, I am here to ask why there is such a large technique and practice gap inbetween D1 and Formula D. I just notice that the D1 angle and entry is so much more different than formula D. Can someone explain this? I can explain more, but if a simple answer will clear this up I will not go farther. I mean the top Formula D drivers are "professionals" and so are the D1 drivers, but their driving is so different. Can someone explain this? Or is it just the fact that the D1 drivers are so professional.

[D1 DRIFTER]

years of expericance and driver prefference i think yeah theres alot of ways to initiate but certain drivers perferr diffrent styles i mean the japan D1 have had lots of time to fine tune there settings and skills so they will more then likely have a hand up on us for quite awhile i think it just comes down to that

just my 5 cents

[2501]

i mean I noticed the D1 drivers have a great deal more angle, and they tend to run a more aggressive course, meanwhile the Formula D drivers are more about speed and tire smoke, running a usually lighter course.

[FreeThinker]

As far as entry goes, it still seems like the top 32 in D1 events are split almost eight down the middle on e-brake entry vs. feint ( I prefer calling it the 'Scandinavian flick') but when the D1 drivers use the flick technique, they tend to do it big, and get the car very sideways rather than a small weight transfer flick.

When it comes down to the D1 drivers consistently in the top 10, there seems to be more driver's who prefer e-brake entry.

Up until the begining of this season it seemed that the Formula D drivers mostly preferred the flick entry. The difference was obvious at the D1 USA vs Japan in California last Dec. and since then I think a lot of the American drivers have been inspired to try deeper and deeper entries by using e-brake initiation with very high entry speed. The most obvious example I have witnessed was Rhys Millen and Sam Hubinette this year at Road Atlanta. Their entries were just INCREDIBLE and no one really came close except Tony Schulz. After the Viper/Corolla fiasco though they have a green 'start course' cone and until that cone, the 2 competitors are supposed to match speeds (slower car sets the pace). So some of the wild entries in Formula D may be limited now.

Overall I personally believe there is still a gap from FD to D1, but obviously there should be considering the experience difference. What has really impressed me though, is how amazingly far the American drifters have come in just 2 years. Even back in Dec. 2004, to me the difference between the FD and D1 drivers was night and day. Another year and I think there probably won't be a gap at all. That's impressive!

As far as angle goes, I think it depends on the course and vehicle, but I haven't seen much of a difference really, other than Katsuhiro Ueo who still reigns king of angle in my book.



-Sean


www.Ter-Tech.com

Edited for spelling.

[hatebbobbarker]

ueo's wheels turn perpendicular to the car, its nuts!


either way, I prefer the clutch kick, ive never even ebraked my car, its too awkward, been planning on giving it a shot at my next event since i need to learn it sometime.

[my 1 88 u]

Originally Posted by FreeThinker

The most obvious example I have witnessed was Rhys Millen and Sam Hubinette this year at Road Atlanta. Their entries were just INCREDIBLE and no one really came close except Tony Schulz. After the Viper/Corolla fiasco though they have a green 'start course' cone and until that cone, the 2 competitors are supposed to match speeds (slower car sets the pace). So some of the wild entries in Formula D may be limited now.



-Sean


www.Ter-Tech.com

Edited for spelling.

ken gushi had the deepest entries in atlanta, tony tried to match it but couldn't link it. rhys and sam where initiating half way between the single and double cones while alot of the japanese cars where initiating beyond the double cones, Ken and Tony where the only ones initiating at the triple cones.

[raging panda]

one view on that point is that japanese drifters have been playing with drift entries for over 10 years now, while almost all of the pro FD drivers are all from professional racing backrounds without emphasis on drifting, so their experiences with initiating a slide is usually either rally, or common knowledge of what causes a slide, not trying to create the slide with the most angle, speed or whatever combination of other things that make drifting great. I don't know what kind of difference that may or may not make, but im sure it is a different mind set for a lot of guys. Having looked at drifting as a legitimate sport for 10 years or more means the japanese have a lot more time invested in finding higher speed and angle for drifting, and techniques associated with that and practicing those techniques. Just a different idea that crossed my mind.

[CrazyHawaiian]

I think it has everything to do with the types of tracks they are drifting on. D1's courses are usually very different from FD courses. I think its safe to say a tougher track will help you build tougher skills. D1 courses are usually on real roadracing tracks or tracks designed for drifting. FD tracks are usually in parking lots or ovals, and the ones that did take place on real roadcourses were setup different from the D1 style. Aside from the differences in the surface (smoothness and compound) the types of turns you drift will affect your style. Long sweeping turns, short off-camber turns, etc, etc. I dont see too many D1 drivers using the E-brake to initiate anything. I only see them using the E-Brake to extend slides or correct angle. E-brake makes you scrub off some speed, guys at the D1 level enter the drift with the most momentum possible. Clutch kicks combined with weight transfer and throttle control, and then usually techniques to slow you down for the proper entry speed for the turn. Stuff you never see FD guys use, like a shift lock or brake drifting. Again it has to do with the types of tracks, no reason to be doing a shift lock entering a 4th gear long sweeper, but if you were entering a 25mph off camber tigh turn at 80mph, of course its gonna be different techniques.

[J-BloodAE86]

also D1 drivers often use more of a combination of techniques, while FD drivers seem to use one technique at a time to initiate. D1 drivers seem to use more handbrake to intiate as well. also most D1 drivers have the clutch in while pulling the handbrake and then once they release it they pop the clutch as well. not so much over here.

[slideways2004]

i have also noticed the angle difference in D1 vs FD. It mainly depends on line. the line you take depends on how much angle your car has, speed, the angle of your wheels. Up until recent the formula D drivers were just getting sideways, meaning not consistent. If you look at tandem battles of us vs. japan you'll see that u.s drivers cars have more angle. japan drivers have more steering angle in the turn. meaning japan drivers are going faster through the turn b/c their cars aren't scrubing off speed b/c of extreme angle. they can run more aggressive on the course b/c the way they drift. but slowly fd drivers are catching on how to do it fast with the most steering angle

[putnamj]

Originally Posted by CrazyHawaiian

I think it has everything to do with the types of tracks they are drifting on. D1's courses are usually very different from FD courses. I think its safe to say a tougher track will help you build tougher skills. D1 courses are usually on real roadracing tracks or tracks designed for drifting. FD tracks are usually in parking lots or ovals, and the ones that did take place on real roadcourses were setup different from the D1 style. Aside from the differences in the surface (smoothness and compound) the types of turns you drift will affect your style. Long sweeping turns, short off-camber turns, etc, etc. I dont see too many D1 drivers using the E-brake to initiate anything. I only see them using the E-Brake to extend slides or correct angle. E-brake makes you scrub off some speed, guys at the D1 level enter the drift with the most momentum possible. Clutch kicks combined with weight transfer and throttle control, and then usually techniques to slow you down for the proper entry speed for the turn. Stuff you never see FD guys use, like a shift lock or brake drifting. Again it has to do with the types of tracks, no reason to be doing a shift lock entering a 4th gear long sweeper, but if you were entering a 25mph off camber tigh turn at 80mph, of course its gonna be different techniques.

Your right what most people are missing here is the type of track you are drifting on. Certain techniques are easy to accomplish while others are hard to accomplish on another track.

Again for the difference from D1 to Formula D tracks are different, what I noticed being at a couple D1 events is that switchback points (cant think of what else to call them) are shorter then Formula D, requiring quicker response/better technique. Anyways that’s what I believe.