Science behind drifts?

[ironhero]

Just like the subject says sciene behind drifting
if it isn't that much trouble i would like to know how different drift tech. differ with other in science terms.

i dont know anything about drifting and i would like to learn more and where do you go to learn more? to the people that do it of course!

[markeese180sx]

braking: An important effect when accelerating or braking is the effect of weight transfer....when braking hard the car will nosedive. During accelerating, the car leans back. This is because just like the driver is pushed back in his seat when the pedal hits the metal, so is the car's centre of mass. The effect of this is that the weight on the rear wheels increases during acceleration and the front wheels conversely have less weight to bear and vice versa for braking. Braking causes less weight...which leads to less traction on the rear wheels.

i think velocity and many other sites have more info on techniques..i dont really know much about physics though...i know that the feint causes loss of traction while feinting away from the turn which allows you to oversteer back over towards the turn and countersteer through the corner

[panda_3ight_6]

Physic's and Geometery...

Drifting is essestaily exceeding the limit of the tires lateral adhesin, there for if you could figure out a formula you could figure out the exact angle a drift would begin to occur and what angle a drift would be indefintily lost...

Iam only 16 right now almost 17
im learning Physics right now.

I would say that Physics takes a big part in drifting.

i lerned everything on this site, i started reading and learned.

[Drift For Food]

Yeah, it's all physics. Basically, you manipulate the front and rear traction to slide the car around the corner. To control the traction you manupulate the weight of the car through steering, acceleration, braking. You can also further manipulte the traction though heavy throttle or the e-brake although these aren't weight shift techniques.

In physics terms, traction(friction) is simply the coefficient of friction, mu, times the normal force applied.

The coefficient of friction is based on the interaction between two surfaces, in drifting case, the road and the tire. The tread compound, the road material, the tire texture, and the road texture all affect what mu is. Even temperature affects mu. Tires get stickier when they get warmer.

The normal force is the force perpindicular to the ground or object the friction is occuring. In our case, it's a verticle force downwards on the tire to the road. The stronger the force, the greater the friction, i.e. traction. If you have more weight over a tire, it has more traction.

Using weight shifting techniques, you can move the force around to any of the 4 tires as much as you want to control the amount of traction. For example, if you brake hard into a corner, you will shift a large amount of weight forward to the front tires. This gives the front tires a lot of grip. At the same time, you take a lot of weight off the back end and make the rear tire have only a little grip. As you turn around the corner, the rear tires can't counter the centrifugal forces that want to make the rear end go straight and not follow the corner. The rear end slides and you start the drift. This is known as braking drift.

[optionboyONLINE]

well actually if u multiply the coefficient drag of your girlfriend on your lap while maintaining a left lateral drift across your lawn, taking into account the seatbelt friction on her oobies during a standing burnout... it is all so simple... well, that is if she was wearing a thong during all this... the vertical tuck and scrunch factor is very important in maintaining a controlled clutch burn... simply divide the weight of your moms dunlop by the amount of gasoline in your tank on a given full moon and everything should work out for you. lemme know how it goes! =D

asdf_

[spinitsidewayz!]

Originally posted by optionboyONLINE
well actually if u multiply the coefficient drag of your girlfriend on your lap while maintaining a left lateral drift across your lawn, taking into account the seatbelt friction on her oobies during a standing burnout... it is all so simple... well, that is if she was wearing a thong during all this... the vertical tuck and scrunch factor is very important in maintaining a controlled clutch burn... simply divide the weight of your moms dunlop by the amount of gasoline in your tank on a given full moon and everything should work out for you. lemme know how it goes! =D

asdf_

^^^pwuahaha

you dont need to know all the technical stuff on how to drift. look at takumi, just a sleepy headed idiot... and he can drift like a champ

well really, when you know what forces are at work you have a better understading which equals to more knowledge... blahdy blah blah....

[optionboyONLINE]

lol. takumi drew upon the power of his tofu to keep him alive during those 15 lateral G slides... duh.. we all know that.

wondertwinPOWERS! form of! a tofu blocK!!!

[WildSe7en]

Originally posted by nedinic


i lerned everything on this site, i started reading and learned.

....the new posterchild for Drifting.com

[Drift For Food]

True, you don't need understanding to drift. Some people are born with a gift. Some people can just hop in a car and drive the snot out of it. Others can't. Still, knowledge is power. If you understand it as well as have a natural gift, you're pretty much unstoppable. This is true in any profession/sport/hobby/etc...

I personally pushed myself and my car when I was young. I knew nothing of physics. I just knew what I experienced, sometimes not even that. Actually learning why things happen really sheds some light on what's going on. Actually being able to understand these things gives you understanding. When you know it, you can use it. I understand the concepts and I can put them to use to control my car. This is a powerful tool. Without knowledge, you're guessing and trying, kind of in the dark all the time. With it, you know and do, and everything works like it should.

[ironhero]

Thanks for all the replys
but i wonder what is the difference with like
fient drift
and like other drifts
i mean drift is a drift why is there so many tech. out there.
i understand that FF cars have to use the ebrake to kick out the back
but arn't FR cars the same why do you need so many techs?

[spinitsidewayz!]

Originally posted by Drift For Food
True, you don't need understanding to drift. Some people are born with a gift. Some people can just hop in a car and drive the snot out of it. Others can't. Still, knowledge is power. If you understand it as well as have a natural gift, you're pretty much unstoppable. This is true in any profession/sport/hobby/etc...

I personally pushed myself and my car when I was young. I knew nothing of physics. I just knew what I experienced, sometimes not even that. Actually learning why things happen really sheds some light on what's going on. Actually being able to understand these things gives you understanding. When you know it, you can use it. I understand the concepts and I can put them to use to control my car. This is a powerful tool. Without knowledge, you're guessing and trying, kind of in the dark all the time. With it, you know and do, and everything works like it should.

experience = the best knowlege

ironhero, fr and ff are pretty much like day and night. you cant really break the end loose on a ff like a rwd car. with a rwd car you ahve the advantage of being able to use the throttle to bring the rear around and as with the other techniques

[markeese180sx]

Originally posted by ironhero
Thanks for all the replys
but i wonder what is the difference with like
fient drift
and like other drifts
i mean drift is a drift why is there so many tech. out there.
i understand that FF cars have to use the ebrake to kick out the back
but arn't FR cars the same why do you need so many techs?

some techniques are easier than others...and its also about style...well and also about personal reference...the rear end doesnt slide out in an FF as easy because of its ffront wheel drive, making it understeer when you press the gas while you're sideways, snapping you back to where you started...on an FR, the rear wheel drive allows you to slide your back out easier because it isnt powered in the front, so you wont snap back as much ..the rear wheel spins and the front wheel navigates...it an FF, the Front wheel controls the power and direction...im not sure if i made any sense

[Heflin]

Ironhero,

This is how I have analyzed drifting.

A drift can occur when the desired momentum of the car is not in line with the steering track. This is the case at any point where you are not driving in a perfectly straight line.

A drift will occur in the above situation when the traction capability of the rear tires is exceeded while the traction of the front tires is maintained. This can be purposely caused by one, two or all three of the following:

1. A shift of weight from the rear to the front, causing less down force on the rear tires. Ex: Braking Drift and Lift Off
2. Increased lateral (Cornering) momentum. Ex: Feint
3. Tire to ground speed inconsistency. Ex: E Brake, Shift Lock and Power Over

A drift will be maintained as long as the momentum of the car is kept off the steering track and the rear tire speed is not allowed to match ground speed.

A drift will end when the momentum of the car is placed back on the steering track and the tire speed is matched with the ground speed.

That’s the science. The art is making all that happen with your steering wheel, gas pedal and brakes while maintaining momentum.

Hope this helps.

[Drift For Food]

^nicely said.

The different techniques exist cause you need to manipulate the car depending on what your doing. Sometimes you brake into a corner and a technique is needed to allow you to drift while braking - braking drift, e-brake, shift lock. Sometimes, you'll initiate the drift while maintaining a constant speed - feint, e-brake, throttle off, power over. And then there's times you want to drift when you're accelerating - feint, powerover.

How the car behaves, the line, and the quickness of initiation of the drift varies between techniques. Each has their purpose. You may changle techniques between curve angles and speeds. If the curve opens up or gets tighter will affect techniques used. Having a lot of methods to initiate and maintain a drift allows you to change speeds and turn angles while drifting to accomodate the curve. You'll even change techniques depending on how much braking or acceleration is needed.

e-brake may not be suitable coming in fast into a corner. Braking drift will allow you to slow down and initiate the drift.

In a more gradual high speed corner, you will not use braking drift because it will slow you down too much. Rather, you may just let off the throttle or feint a little to intiate the drift. You may even just floor it and power over to initiate the drift.

In a narrow tight corner, you may not have room to feint to start a drift. You may just brake hard into the corner to start the drift if you're coming in fast, or if you need to get the rear end out quick or if you're already at the right speed, you may just e-brake it. The nice thing about the e-brake, is that you don't need room to start the drift.

If a turn sharpens, you'll do a lot of braking drift through the corner. Very little throttle would be used since you continously bleed off speed. Any throttle techniques would be useless.

If a turn widens, you'll probably use powerover to gain speed through the corner as you drift. Any braking techniques would be useless.

Everything has its purpose.

[HasNoTiresLeft]

oooww my head hurts and i failed physics. lol i must be one of those quote "naturals" i just get in and feel the car. I learn a little technical stuff here and there, but ive always been one to do better with more hands on than book learnin.


Hmm science of drifting....

Algebra
English
Physical Ed.
American History
Drifting 101
Geology

[Drift For Food]

Experience is the best teacher. Understanding it and actually doing it is two completely different things. Driving will teach you how to, but knowledge will give you understanding of why.

I took physics twice

<--very very lazy, lol

Drifting 101, I'll have to look for that class in the course list for next semester, lol. Sign me up.

[PearlBlueSoul]

Originally posted by optionboyONLINE


wondertwinPOWERS! form of! a tofu blocK!!!

BWHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH XD

that was l337!

Anyways, I read up on the physics engine in GT3 that they used and read about what the engineers had to say about it. Supposedly from a physics perspective a car can no more drift than a bumblebee can fly. It's an unexplainable phenomenon from a purely mathematical perspective.

This is so true that the engineers who see drifting take place in GT3 call it, "the miracle."

Purdy cool stuff. We know how to make it come about but there are way too many variables in a drift to really put it into a formula or what not. Friction, frequencies in vibration running through the chassis, flex, the various torsional rigidities of various components effected during the drift (bushings, axles, chassis, tires, wheels), the temperature of the rubber, the traction coefficient of the tires, the angle of each piece during the drift from initiation to sustainment to completion or transition, numerous other factors like the amount of power transferred by the engine and the variances in mechanical efficiency, yadda yadda yadda. you get the idea.

From a purely mathematical/scientific perspective drifting is purely an anomaly. However, knowing "how" to do it, is enough. It just takes a good understanding of how a car behaves to given inputs with the components you're using and how they react to the largest of influential factors such as the power put to the wheels in relation to the ground's ability to retain the energy you empty onto it, angle of steering, where the weight is going......


yeaaaa....I'm a big *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*ing nerd and probably a few things I said could be argued to death. Just don't think too hard. It tends to give you headaches, even if you are brainy enough to understand most of it.

[Drift For Food]

lol, a maricle.

Nah, it's simple. A rwd system is simply unstable. Think of it this way. The rear tires are always trying to get in front of the front tires. In simple terms take your pencile and stand it straight up on the tip of your finger. Now think of your finger as the front tires and the drag they create from rolling. Now all the weight of the pencile is the force applied by the rear tires. The rear end(the eraser side of the pensicle up in the air) always wants to pass the front end(the tip resting on your finger). This is drifting in a simplistic form. In real life you control the forces front and rear through throttle, braking, and steering. This is also why a fwd car is hard to drift. Fwds can be thought of as you dangling the pencile by the eraser with your thumb and index finger. The front end pulls down while the rear end drags along. Now this doesn't mean you can't drift, you just can't continously drift.

The GT3 guys are a bunch fo idiots, lol, j/k. I so wanted GT4 to come out on PC

Haha, bumble bees. Actually, I saw a program on PBS about bumble bees and how they can actually fly. Flight dynamics we think of when we explain air planes doesn't work. It's more along the lines of us swimming. If we blow out all of our air, we'll sink. However, if we swim, we can move about and even push ourselves up. This is what bumble bees do, swim. Air to them is like water to use, very dense in relation to weight. Sorry to ruin the "magic" lol.

[Drift For Food]

<--bigger geek than you, lol

a damn sexy one too

[PearlBlueSoul]

Originally posted by Drift For Food
<--bigger geek than you, lol

a damn sexy one too

hahahah. np dood. I was thinking from a purely mathematical perspective...like, what formula would you try to use to calculate exact figures on how drifting works? lol That was more my point. I understand the concept fine.

I ar teh ooglay driftAr. long live the "lonely driver" LOL j/k. WAAAY too much initial-D stuff floating around this forum. lol

[Drift For Food]

Actually showing it in physical terms would be somewhat complicated. In the simplest form, you have the car with a center of mass somewhere around the middle of the car and up at a certain height. This will vary from car to car. Then you have the 4 tires. They have contact with the road at a height of zero. You can create a certain range of forces with the tires. Rolling force is almost zero. You can change this through throttle and braking. The primary force the tires apply are the sideways forces, the directions they don't roll. Through these 4 tire points and their interaction on the car body will create what the car does. You can manipulate the direction of the tire forces through your actions. The result is the car accelerating or braking in various directions and mass rotation can be introduced as well. Steering initiates a rotation of the car. Feint does this as well.

Hmm, I'm not sure where I'm going with this, lol. I guess it depends what you specifically want to know. What parts? What amount of detail? I'd draw something for you if it were as easy to draw a pic in my post as it would on a piece of paper.

[spirit taro]

Get Reckless In A Controlled Ma-nore While Steering.