E-brake to prolong the drift....

[Spazum888]

ive seen it on option videos, lets say the turn is a simple 90' right turn.......... the driver usually feints to the right.... ahh man this is hard explaining... ok the driver comes in hot and feints early, causing the back end to swing out way before the turn.... they use the E-brake to prolong the drift as soon as the G force stops... by G force i mean the back end comming out more and more.. but once its set out... and the back wont swing out anymore, they ebrake to keep the car that sideways, kinda like a sideways long in the extreem video, just not as long... i was just woundering if anyone has tried it, and the things NOT to do... hope you get wut i mean....

[Drift For Food]

Well you have two options to hold a long drift. First you do a heavy feint and get the rear end out. Unfortunately, with the front wheels turned, they roll easier than the rear slides, so the rear will catch and come back unless you straighten out your steering to decrease rolling and increasing sliding of the front tires. Unfortunately, your car will begin to turn. If you're still sliding down the straight, this means you're going to hit the wall. How you get around this is to combine braking and e-brake to control the front and rear slide. How much of each depends on how good the car's brake balance is. By not using the throttle at this time, you can maintain a straight drift longer since you're not providing forward motion input through throttle. It would take a bit of practice to judge speed and distance to get it right. Too slow or too early, you'll have to straighten out before the turn or come to a stop before the turn. If you're too fast or too late, you'll overshoot. It's all front/rear brake balance to maintain angle and direction. The simplest form would be to feint, start the drift, then just locking up all 4. This would make the car slide in its current direction and stay at its same attack angle. Then when the corner comes up, you let off the brake, hit the gas, and drift around the corner. It wouldn't be good on the tires though, lol, and you'd slow down faster than if you were doing the rolling version.

As a note: I have not actually done this sort of drift. I'm to new to drifting to do such "advanced" techniques. Basically, I'm not willing to ruin my car trying to do something like this. However, I do know the physics behind it (mechanical engineer, still college boy) and have had a year's worth of experience doing this sort of thing in the virtual world (gaming, Live for Speed), yes sounds bad, but a good game with outstanding physics can teach you an unbelievable amount about car behavior and setups.

[mranlet]

I think what you're seeing is the drivers using the E-brake to keep the rear behind the car and to prevent spinning. Most of the cars on the Option videos have a crap-load of power which helps to keep the rear out for a long time. If you don't have a lot of power or even an LSD or welded Diff, it is going to be a bit more difficult...

Depending on the bite of your rear tires and your motor's ability to overpower them, some left-foot braking may be involved to keep the car from running off to the inside of the turn. If you can left foot brake and bring counter steer to just enough to keep you headed in the right direction you may be able to prolong the drift through a sweeper.

If you can find videos of Izumida drifting the MK III Supra (MA-71 I think) he'll be your man to watch. If I'm not mistaken (which I very well may be) I think he used to be a part of Drift Extreme, so you may want to hit up the guy on the board "DriftXtreme" for any videos of prolonged corner-entry drifts.

Things to not do:
1-Be an idiot

I hope this helps, and if there's more specific things that you are looking for help on I'll try my best as well.

-MR

[Spazum888]

drift for food has the idea im talking about, left foot braking isnt my thing yet... they feint the other way of the turn.. then they let the car snap back and countersteer from there... but RIGHT before the car has time to snap back again, they use the E-brake to keep the back out... by using the E-brake they have no traction once so ever in the rear, leaving the back end to hang out... as DfF said, they control the car with the steering (every car does that, no sh!t hahaha) but anyways i know this takes lots of balls and pratice... but it can be done, its a really cool idea and i want to try it... next time im out praticing im gonna try the feint with the e-brake and see how long i can keep the drift while going stright....

dont be an idoit... too late, im Spaz....

the Option video i was talking about was the one with the Chicks drifting..... of course they have mad work done to the cars, cages and everything... they even had crazy *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* helmets!@


the one thing i relized VERY QUICKLY when starting to drift was everything you learned in games and visualizing drifting in your head gets thrown out the window the first time you spin out. its totally different when your acutally doing it, actually DRIFTING, not this getting sideways after the apex.

mranlet: r u gonna be at Dday II? if so IM me on aim @ Spazum888

[Drift For Food]

"the one thing i relized VERY QUICKLY when starting to drift was everything you learned in games and visualizing drifting in your head gets thrown out the window the first time you spin out. its totally different when your acutally doing it, actually DRIFTING, not this getting sideways after the apex."

Yes, game and reality is quite a bit different. However, a good game with good physics can teach you wonders, accurately too. Need for Speed Underground? Um...no, lol. Live for Speed, yeah baby! woot! woot! Uhum..sorry, got carried away, hehe. I should make up some vids of this game, show a few techniques.


Learning without the e-brake has made my personal style a little bit different. Prolonging the slide for me is more of steering and light braking, no throttle(if you're going straight). Even with the e-brake, you'll still have to brake to keep the front end from just rolling ahead of the rear. E-brake alone won't do it. It's a balance of both the front and rear braking to slow the front and rear equally while staying sideways. If your brake balance is right, you won't even need the e-brake.

[CrazyHawaiian]

Yeah E-Brake or Handbrake can prolong the slide. Takes a lot of practice and a lot of balls (unless you are drifting around cones, then no worries). One thing I've noticed is that the professionals you see on Video's use the Handbrake very differently from the rest of us amatures with normal (not super-tuned) cars. I guess the professionals cars are so well tuned (perfect suspension, perfect balance and weight distribution) that their style is just different. When I see professionals use the handbrake to prolong the slide, they are giving very sharp, very quick pulls, usually 2-3 of them in a row depending on driver. I'm guessing they dont hold it because they dont want to lose too much speed or they dont want to over-rotate their car (since its so well tuned as far as balance). When I ride along with other guys in the amature level of drifting (like me), I see people using the style that you are talking about. I remember riding with Revlimit once, holding on real tight as he comes up to a 180 degree turn going about 80mph, feint to set the drift up, and right when the car enters the slide, rotates perfectly, and the inertia is traveling the right way he holds the handbrake and extends the slide. Its a great technique and looks great from outside the car, but it leaves bald spots on your tires hehe. Like Drift For Food said, you gotta know just how long the car will slide or you might end up in the wall. So takes a lot of practice and tries at different speeds to see what happens. To do it you have to make sure the inertia is traveling the right way, and the car is rotated perfectly. If the inertia is not heading in the exact right direction, then you'll either slide too far in (making it impossible to drift the turn you are comming up on), or too far out (maybe end up in the wall or grass or something). Same thing for the handbrake. Pull it too early and you'll end up going wide, too late and you'll go too much towards the inside or spin out (probably spin out). Countersteering is very important when holding the handbrake, it will directly impact how the car rotates. Also, holding it for a loooong time will make you lose speed and maybe come up on the turn too slow. My advice is not to be a madman crazy style like Revlimit!! haha! Try it at low speed in an open area before trying it at 80 mph next to walls LOL. He's crazy folks but hes also really good.

Another thing about locking all 4 wheels by using the brakes. I've found this usefull at high speed drifts when you find yourself understeering or comming to close to the inside of the turn. Slam the brakes and lock up all 4 wheels and you'll extend the slide longer saving the turn and helping you clear the inside. The rotation of your car when you lock all 4 depends on how your proportioning valve is setup. I run a lever adjustable proportioning valve with the adjustment lever built into my center console so I can adjust my brake bias on the fly while I'm drifting around the track. If I think I'll need a different rotation when locking all 4 wheels for certain turns, I adjust it differently.

[mranlet]

So is the brake used to prolong the drift or supress spinning in the situasion you describe, crazy?

Exc. post BTW

-MR

[CrazyHawaiian]

More to prolong the slide, but depends on how your car is setup. Anytime the wheels lock up (either the rears when you use hand brake, or all 4 when you use the foot brake) you will extend the slide. It will slide in whatever direction your inertia is taking you, not where the car is pointing, and not where your front wheels are pointing (unless you are using hand brake, then steering input can change your angle). The downside to locking the wheels and extending the slide is that you lose speed when this happens. So you extend the slide but if you are battling someone it does not look good since you lose speed. One of the situations I see this being used a lot (by both amatures here in Hawaii and pro's like Komatsu) is if you kick it out way early and turns out you are not going to clear the turn. So you need to correct mid-slide to extend the drift a bit longer. Hold or Pop the hand brake and you'll extend the slide. If you are in a situation where your angle is maxxed out and more oversteer (aka hand brake) will cause you to spin out, the foot brake is your only option. This is where your proportioning valve will determine how the car rotates.

[mranlet]

Gotta get me a proportioning valve...

Thanks!

-MR

[Spazum888]

Originally posted by CrazyHawaiian
More to prolong the slide, but depends on how your car is setup. Anytime the wheels lock up (either the rears when you use hand brake, or all 4 when you use the foot brake) you will extend the slide. It will slide in whatever direction your inertia is taking you, not where the car is pointing, and not where your front wheels are pointing (unless you are using hand brake, then steering input can change your angle). The downside to locking the wheels and extending the slide is that you lose speed when this happens. So you extend the slide but if you are battling someone it does not look good since you lose speed. One of the situations I see this being used a lot (by both amatures here in Hawaii and pro's like Komatsu) is if you kick it out way early and turns out you are not going to clear the turn. So you need to correct mid-slide to extend the drift a bit longer. Hold or Pop the hand brake and you'll extend the slide. If you are in a situation where your angle is maxxed out and more oversteer (aka hand brake) will cause you to spin out, the foot brake is your only option. This is where your proportioning valve will determine how the car rotates.

amaturs in Hawaii? you guys were the first on the block to start drifting, you and the military peeps from Okinawa, plus it defently seems like you know wut your talking about. it seems like the things you NEED to know when try this is witch way your inertia is going, and how long your car will slide, i bet once you get used to this you can try it on a closed track... but it seems like you defently need to try this in a open parking lot wit nothing around first, just to get a feel for it. i can also see how you wouldnt want to use this technique if you were battling somone, but for show and points this would defently help out. thanks again for the help.

[CrazyHawaiian]

No problem, but keep in mind that I'm still learning too. This is how I see it, but other people might see it differently. These kinds of things I'm talking about happen on our local track which has some very tight turns. We dont have any long sweeping turns like the stuff I've seen in the USA competition videos. In those types of long sweeping turns you would probably be using way more throttle and never lock up all 4 wheels. And you are right that the people that do these things are advanced. They've reached the point where they are going really fast with full confidence so the slides are super long. For now I use a different style that dosn't use any handbrake or footbrake, but thats because of my current skill level (and some ammount of equipment failure, GM E-Brakes are rubbish). My speeds are in the 35-50 mph range right now and I do not do any extended slides. All I do is feint, power over and choku. These guys are in the 60-80 mph range and they do super long slides. I used to have the balls to go that fast on our track, but ever since I took that 8 month break I just dont have the confidence yet. I need to get back in the groove and build my confidence back up. At my current speeds I would lose too much speed by doing these things (disrupt the drift and cause a "bobble").

[Poweredby007]

Stock Silvia Breaking system
Endless front pads
Uras Dspec Rear pads


I almost always use my side brake for hair pins.. and WAAY back. top 2nd / mid 3rd gear and HANK... lower it little once wheels locked and start turning.. pull again if needed to get MORE sideways as i get closer. front brake to come in on the apex and drop side brake and gas all the way. I have never done heal/toe on any drift I have ever done.

[S13_Steve]

just remember when u use the e brake remember that the car is gonna go in one direction if know what i mean

[Mr.Dorifto]

E-Brake slide is for noobs

[Ripper]

hey mr. dorifto, where'd you get that avatar from? haha she's cute. sorry for getting off topic.

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by Mr.Dorifto
E-Brake slide is for noobs

The Pros use the handbrake whenever they need to. Watch any of the in car stuff from japan.if they mess up or hit understeer, they reach for it.

[CrazyHawaiian]

I would consider E-brakes for "noobs" when they use it to initiate the slide. But even then, I dont consider it a bad thing. When I first started, I used the E-Brake to initiate. Everyone gotta start somewhere man. Not many people can pick up on weight transfer right away. The E-Brake is a much easier way of generating oversteer, and I would think majority of the people that are getting interested in drifting (just learning) go with the E-Brake first (either that or clutch kicks). You'll find that when you get more advanced you'll use other techniques to initiate the slide, but then also use the E-Brake to prolong the slide or correct your angle like everyone in this thread is talking about. In this situation it is definately not for "noobs."

[S13_Steve]

i luv crazy H... hes the only guy who can talk smack and prove it on an auto.... much props....

[nissanguy_24]

ahem lol

[ACDSupra7]

Haha.


You left out poor SMC Steve... or did you


j/p

[emission]

What about me? auto owns!

[Drift For Food]

I'd disagree with the e-brake noob thing. Yes, I think too many people start out and maybe use it too much. I'm personally kind of glad I was forced not to use it when I first started experimenting with drifting. I can second the GM e-brake crappiness, no breaks just weak and the cables always rusted and stuck(old cars). That and the cars I learned on all had the foot e-brakes, no thank you. It was good to learn weight shifting and feint and braking first. It didn't give me a crutch to stand on. Even now that I have a hand e-brake, I don't use it. I've played with it a couple times, but I'm never temped to even touch it. I'll always brake or steer first. In time I'll use it some more. It would be helpful when you get in a jam and you don't have other options, that and it works so much better on tight corners than a heavy feint and braking. It's kind of funny I'm learning backwards, lol.

CrazyHawaiian, Nice post! You nailed the e-brake, braking difference perfectly.

[DoriFuta-]

Back when i started drifting (not all that long ago), I use to use my e-brake all the time just to make my back end slide out.
then as i got more confidend in my drifting skills and learned how my car reacts i used my e-brake less and less.
It was not till i actualy wiped-out going around a corner and the back end came out to much and then when i got control the car went way off course.
I studied the way i use to use the e-brake and I came to the conclusion that i would pull the e-brake for to long instead of the pull and release method.
Now i don't use the E-brake at all anymore and my car slides just as far as if\when i used my e-brake.

E-brake will only allow you to slide for so long till the back grabs again.
If the Corner is farther then a 90 degree angle (like a hairpin) then the e-brake would be more usefull if done currectly.

Please Note that I am Running an original stock 85 VW Golf. Front wheel drive so i know about FF drifting.

[Mark_Logan]

Ebrake grabs are a good start. And I wouldn't mind if people stopped declaring it only for noobs. Some noob squids gonna clutch kick at 6 grand coming off an on ramp and slam into me because he doesn't wanna be an amature :P

Besides you gotta start somewhere right?

[Streeter]

"Ebrakes for noobs" who is this guy? LOL

I would like to see a nice long entry with out using the ebrake. You can easily initiate a slide with feint or clutch kick but to hold the angle for a decent distance you have to use the hand brake. I am drifting with pretty high level guys and they are starting long entries at about 160kph and using the hand brake to keep the car at the desired angle all the way to the apex.