p/s for drifting GTS

dope-didly · 06-20-2004, 11:25 PM

want to know opions on power steering on drift cars, especially on the GTS corolla's

05m0515 · 06-21-2004, 12:31 AM

i have a gts and i took mine off when i did the motor swap. much better feedback through the wheel. not only much better for drifting, but just spirited driving in general. not much harder to turn the wheel when parking, going slow, etc...
all plusses in my opinion and highly recomend it. ive had my gts coming up on 4 years and most of those i had the PS, but now wish i would have taken it off sooner...

GRiDRaceTech · 06-21-2004, 03:59 PM

The GT-S is light enough that manual steering will not be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

marshun · 06-22-2004, 01:08 PM

i've never liked power steering while drifting. i got a 240 and i just disconnected the high pressure line.

5Z S13 · 06-22-2004, 04:07 PM

^^ isn't parking really annoying, im still debating taking mine out completely

AlexPfeiffer · 06-22-2004, 07:09 PM

I beg to differ. I'm all for power steering, unless you change to a non power rack on ae86, then it gives you more angle. For 240's power is the only way to go.

ACDSupra7 · 06-22-2004, 07:22 PM

I took it off of my FC for a while. It seems alot easier to read the feedback from the front tires when it's disabled, plus I really like resistance from the steering wheel during cornering, but that's for gripping.

What do you think about the difference in feedback?

Slonie · 06-22-2004, 07:25 PM

I've run the GTS with power rack 3 different ways. 1- No pump, looped lines. 2 - 20V power steering pump at full boost (it's meant to be electrically controlled, normal GTS PS pump is vacuum controlled I think), and 3 - pump with no belt...

What's sad is that I am used to the third way, which is the crappiest. I took my advice from Taka, unless you have a manual rack, use the pump. The harsh self-correcting of my car as it is now is sort of cool, but it's a lot eaiser to get behind and screw yourself up without the pump.

The car is light though, so actual steering effort is not impossible even the way I'm running it now (which is a lot harder to turn than running no pump and looped lines).

marshun · 06-25-2004, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 5Z S13
^^ isn't parking really annoying, im still debating taking mine out completely

+

well i dont drive it everyday but parking is a bit tougher.

i guess wether you want power steering or not is totally up to you. but personally i dont like power steering.

5Z S13 · 06-25-2004, 11:40 AM

Is there any way you can make power steering work off and on, like when you need it, daily driving, or don't, taking it to the track or whatever?

marshun · 06-25-2004, 05:43 PM

i guess you could just disconnect the high pressure side.

but then you'll need to have PS fluid handy when you want the power back. :P

Boro86driver · 06-28-2004, 02:13 PM

i like the manual steering better than the power... the manual rack is alot better than a disconnected power one... but alex is a pro driver, for my newbie a** the non-power is better because i don't over correct as much.

marshun · 06-28-2004, 04:49 PM

power steering racks have faster turning ratio's than manuel one's.

i like my disconnected power rack.

jasonaries · 07-06-2004, 11:59 AM

Besides the fact that I do stock restorations, I just like the effortless feel of the p/s. I've driven a VW for a short time in the winters to keep my 8-6's out of the salt, and I got along just fine parking, etc. I didn't notice enough of an increase in feedback to suggest that I tinker with removing the p/s. Despite my affinity for stock, I have considered removing the a/c on the gold one...

malcolm · 07-07-2004, 12:43 PM

I agree with alex... racing/driving/drifting will take some time to get used to a car with power-steering, but in the long run, it's better to have. Also, if you are driving a twitchy car, it would be better to have because you can react quicker (ie. drifting a Mk1 MR2... those things snap sideways SO fast... power-steering might help a bit if it were an option).

I went from racing a Turbo FC3S with the power-steering disconnected (damn, that made for hard steering with 9" slicks, and it took a toll on me after an hour in the heat of summer) to a '00 Corvette with power-steering for grandmothers. I felt like I couldn't feel a thing. After about an hour behind the wheel, I got used to it... It was almost like I was able to just use my fingertips to drive instead of my whole hand.

It'll just take some time to get used to... and when you do, you'll want to keep it that way.

Feint · 07-07-2004, 12:55 PM

Can anyone name one Japanese pro that uses p/s? I haven't seen any so far.

malcolm · 07-07-2004, 01:00 PM

does it matter? I just think he should try to make do with what he has first, and see if he likes it. If, after quite some time, he doesn't like it, he can just disconnect it and try it without. I just think it's better to try it as is, so he's not making possibly redundant modifications.

orange advan · 07-21-2004, 10:10 AM

sure have... taniguchi's car at d1 media day. definitely had p/s. also observe some in car video's and notice how some driver's make minor corrects effortlessly or one handed while either downshifting or pulling the ebrake. driver's without p/s are constantly driving with 2 hands: corolla drivers.

AlexPfeiffer · 07-21-2004, 03:05 PM

Almost all the 240's run with power steering. Ueno with the soarer, imamura in the fd, they all run power steering.

most only the corolla guys with smaller tires go without, mainly cause the non power GTV rack is longer and gives more steering angle.

Boro86driver · 07-26-2004, 11:42 PM

so alex, you think its better to run power steering? (i have an AE86, and i understand more angle, but i'm discarding it for now) so why? don't you think its harder to get good road feel from the tires with power steer? cause thats what it seems like to me. when i have the tail out, and i'm countersteering, with the disconnected PS (i don't have the $$$ for the GTV rack yet) i can feel the correct countersteer angle better than i could when i had the power steering. granted, its way more work, but with the power steer i would tend to push right through the correct counter steer angle to the to much, then i'd have to correct back, and basicly it just wasn't smooth at all. so what do you think about that?

NismoSigma · 07-27-2004, 12:13 AM

Alex > God in a drift match.

jasonaries · 07-29-2004, 07:21 AM

Having only driven an AE86 as my primary car since I began driving, I can say that you can definitely get the feel of counter steering with P/S. I certainly HAD to develop that feel for driving on snow and ice. I wouldn't have figured it out if it weren't for malcome. He mentioned steering with the fingertips instead of the whole hand, which is exactly what I do in the car AND in an aircraft. Seems that some flight instructor explained that if you grab the aircraft controls or car steering wheel, the nerves in your hands don't transmit the subtle input needed to best control the vehicle- the tight grip deadens the senses. So, while feedback from a non-P/S car is more than that of a P/S equipped, you lose some input from holding on tighter. If you then apply the non-p/s technique to the other car, you're dead in the water. Just develop a light touch and give it some time and you should be all set.

mranlet · 07-29-2004, 08:33 AM

Even without power steering in my EF8, I still use my fingers to steer. If you're white-knuckled you don't have as much control.

Wheelbase, suspension design, steering wheel width, weight, and tire width all play a factor in the heavyness of steering. A car with 0 castor angle and no scrub radius will feel virtually no feedback with or without power steering. Medium width tires and no PS can be a good setup, like on a lot of the AE86's, but wide tires and no PS and too small a steering wheel can be tough to handle.

For those guys who just want more feedback, keep the PS but add some wider tires and/or spacers (which will increase the scrub radius). Additionally, you can dial in a bit more castor for a stiffer steering feel.

If you used to have PS and have since disconnected it, you're probably going to get more bump steer with a stiff suspension that if you have a non-PS car from the factory due to the differences in Castor angle, but this depends on the car.

Alex - is that why all those Corolla guys have Gorilla arms?

06-20-2004, 11:25 PM	#1
dope-didly Newbie Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Conyers Posts: 1	p/s for drifting GTS want to know opions on power steering on drift cars, especially on the GTS corolla's

07-06-2004, 11:59 AM	#14
jasonaries Newbie Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 52	I'll keep my p/s... Besides the fact that I do stock restorations, I just like the effortless feel of the p/s. I've driven a VW for a short time in the winters to keep my 8-6's out of the salt, and I got along just fine parking, etc. I didn't notice enough of an increase in feedback to suggest that I tinker with removing the p/s. Despite my affinity for stock, I have considered removing the a/c on the gold one...

07-29-2004, 07:21 AM	#22
jasonaries Newbie Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 52	I vote for a light touch with P/S. Having only driven an AE86 as my primary car since I began driving, I can say that you can definitely get the feel of counter steering with P/S. I certainly HAD to develop that feel for driving on snow and ice. I wouldn't have figured it out if it weren't for malcome. He mentioned steering with the fingertips instead of the whole hand, which is exactly what I do in the car AND in an aircraft. Seems that some flight instructor explained that if you grab the aircraft controls or car steering wheel, the nerves in your hands don't transmit the subtle input needed to best control the vehicle- the tight grip deadens the senses. So, while feedback from a non-P/S car is more than that of a P/S equipped, you lose some input from holding on tighter. If you then apply the non-p/s technique to the other car, you're dead in the water. Just develop a light touch and give it some time and you should be all set.

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06-21-2004, 12:31 AM	#2
05m0515 Guest Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Washington Posts: 171	i have a gts and i took mine off when i did the motor swap. much better feedback through the wheel. not only much better for drifting, but just spirited driving in general. not much harder to turn the wheel when parking, going slow, etc... all plusses in my opinion and highly recomend it. ive had my gts coming up on 4 years and most of those i had the PS, but now wish i would have taken it off sooner...

06-21-2004, 03:59 PM	#3
GRiDRaceTech Opposite Lock Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,096	The GT-S is light enough that manual steering will not be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

06-22-2004, 01:08 PM	#4
marshun stop spreading disinfo Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 554	i've never liked power steering while drifting. i got a 240 and i just disconnected the high pressure line.

06-22-2004, 04:07 PM	#5
5Z S13 5Zigen Tool Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: So Cal Posts: 169	^^ isn't parking really annoying, im still debating taking mine out completely

06-22-2004, 07:09 PM	#6
AlexPfeiffer Driver Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 765	I beg to differ. I'm all for power steering, unless you change to a non power rack on ae86, then it gives you more angle. For 240's power is the only way to go.

06-22-2004, 07:22 PM	#7
ACDSupra7 ACDSevenGuy Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,148	I took it off of my FC for a while. It seems alot easier to read the feedback from the front tires when it's disabled, plus I really like resistance from the steering wheel during cornering, but that's for gripping. What do you think about the difference in feedback?

06-22-2004, 07:25 PM	#8
Slonie is a composite character Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Norcal Posts: 173	I've run the GTS with power rack 3 different ways. 1- No pump, looped lines. 2 - 20V power steering pump at full boost (it's meant to be electrically controlled, normal GTS PS pump is vacuum controlled I think), and 3 - pump with no belt... What's sad is that I am used to the third way, which is the crappiest. I took my advice from Taka, unless you have a manual rack, use the pump. The harsh self-correcting of my car as it is now is sort of cool, but it's a lot eaiser to get behind and screw yourself up without the pump. The car is light though, so actual steering effort is not impossible even the way I'm running it now (which is a lot harder to turn than running no pump and looped lines).

06-25-2004, 11:40 AM	#10
5Z S13 5Zigen Tool Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: So Cal Posts: 169	Is there any way you can make power steering work off and on, like when you need it, daily driving, or don't, taking it to the track or whatever?

06-25-2004, 05:43 PM	#11
marshun stop spreading disinfo Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 554	i guess you could just disconnect the high pressure side. but then you'll need to have PS fluid handy when you want the power back. :P

06-28-2004, 02:13 PM	#12
Boro86driver Newbie Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: So Cal Posts: 33	i like the manual steering better than the power... the manual rack is alot better than a disconnected power one... but alex is a pro driver, for my newbie a** the non-power is better because i don't over correct as much.

06-28-2004, 04:49 PM	#13
marshun stop spreading disinfo Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 554	power steering racks have faster turning ratio's than manuel one's. i like my disconnected power rack.

07-07-2004, 12:43 PM	#15
malcolm Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: ontario canada Posts: 471	I agree with alex... racing/driving/drifting will take some time to get used to a car with power-steering, but in the long run, it's better to have. Also, if you are driving a twitchy car, it would be better to have because you can react quicker (ie. drifting a Mk1 MR2... those things snap sideways SO fast... power-steering might help a bit if it were an option). I went from racing a Turbo FC3S with the power-steering disconnected (damn, that made for hard steering with 9" slicks, and it took a toll on me after an hour in the heat of summer) to a '00 Corvette with power-steering for grandmothers. I felt like I couldn't feel a thing. After about an hour behind the wheel, I got used to it... It was almost like I was able to just use my fingertips to drive instead of my whole hand. It'll just take some time to get used to... and when you do, you'll want to keep it that way.

07-07-2004, 12:55 PM	#16
Feint ƒhƒŠƒtƒg Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 933	Can anyone name one Japanese pro that uses p/s? I haven't seen any so far.

07-07-2004, 01:00 PM	#17
malcolm Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: ontario canada Posts: 471	does it matter? I just think he should try to make do with what he has first, and see if he likes it. If, after quite some time, he doesn't like it, he can just disconnect it and try it without. I just think it's better to try it as is, so he's not making possibly redundant modifications.

07-21-2004, 10:10 AM	#18
orange advan Newbie Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1	sure have... taniguchi's car at d1 media day. definitely had p/s. also observe some in car video's and notice how some driver's make minor corrects effortlessly or one handed while either downshifting or pulling the ebrake. driver's without p/s are constantly driving with 2 hands: corolla drivers.

07-21-2004, 03:05 PM	#19
AlexPfeiffer Driver Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 765	Almost all the 240's run with power steering. Ueno with the soarer, imamura in the fd, they all run power steering. most only the corolla guys with smaller tires go without, mainly cause the non power GTV rack is longer and gives more steering angle.

07-26-2004, 11:42 PM	#20
Boro86driver Newbie Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: So Cal Posts: 33	so alex, you think its better to run power steering? (i have an AE86, and i understand more angle, but i'm discarding it for now) so why? don't you think its harder to get good road feel from the tires with power steer? cause thats what it seems like to me. when i have the tail out, and i'm countersteering, with the disconnected PS (i don't have the $$$ for the GTV rack yet) i can feel the correct countersteer angle better than i could when i had the power steering. granted, its way more work, but with the power steer i would tend to push right through the correct counter steer angle to the to much, then i'd have to correct back, and basicly it just wasn't smooth at all. so what do you think about that?

07-27-2004, 12:13 AM	#21
NismoSigma Driftin' to the MOON! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 675	Alex > God in a drift match.

07-29-2004, 08:33 AM	#23
mranlet Smokes Dynamite Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Tampa, CT, all over the place! Posts: 1,090	Even without power steering in my EF8, I still use my fingers to steer. If you're white-knuckled you don't have as much control. Wheelbase, suspension design, steering wheel width, weight, and tire width all play a factor in the heavyness of steering. A car with 0 castor angle and no scrub radius will feel virtually no feedback with or without power steering. Medium width tires and no PS can be a good setup, like on a lot of the AE86's, but wide tires and no PS and too small a steering wheel can be tough to handle. For those guys who just want more feedback, keep the PS but add some wider tires and/or spacers (which will increase the scrub radius). Additionally, you can dial in a bit more castor for a stiffer steering feel. If you used to have PS and have since disconnected it, you're probably going to get more bump steer with a stiff suspension that if you have a non-PS car from the factory due to the differences in Castor angle, but this depends on the car. Alex - is that why all those Corolla guys have Gorilla arms?