Heel and Toe?

[clay payton]

when you use this method, do you actually use your heel and toe?

I pretty much just use the toe portion of my feet. with, say, big toe and second toe on the brake pedal, and then roll my foot a bit so the left side of my right foot is on the gas, with my heel just resting on the floor board.

I guess it depends on shoe size as well and how close the pedals are.

[Craftsman]

My question is isn't Heel Toe to make shifts smoother during downshifting? If so, wouldn't this be not good for drifting?

Matt.

[clay payton]

it's great for drifting, because many times you shift after you've already started sliding, and if you don't make the transistion smoothly, you change your car's balance too suddenly.

[turbo23]

well some corners u dont always drift, and for the street, if u can do it right u will have a big advantage over the person who cant when approaching corners and setting up for the the exit. Im 6'4 and i can heal-toe in my FC just fine, i have to wear a racing shoe(or wrestling shoes work the same)

[marshun]

thats cool. i wear presto's when i drive hard.

but heel toe is good for braking drifts. you gotta keep the rev's in the power band.

but as for just down shifting you can just rev match.

[doriftokouki]

If you enter a corner fast enough and your downshifting while braking if you dont use heel toe the rear wheels tend to lock up thats one of the main reasons for heel toe, people who do not use heel toe while entering corners either enter them really sloppy from having to shift while braking into the turn or they have to downshift while they are on the straight before the turn, either way slows you down, if you heel toe into the turn everything is a smooth transition between gears and you can get the fastest entry and exit speed if you know your line and do it right.

P.S. I wear DVS or DC skate shoes

[GRiDRaceTech]

I heel-toe with the sides of my right foot. I'm still working on my smoothness, and I've been driving stick for two years. You want to get it absolutely smooth, as in can't-feel-it smooth. Anything else messes with the balance.

Shift during a drift? Not bright, and not done by the pros.

[ACDSupra7]

I also use the side of my foot for heel-toe. It's easier than trying to slide my heel over the gas pedal, more effective too, as it gives me firmer control over the throttle.

[SilviaLove]

I think it depends on the distance between gas pedal, brake pedal, and the amount of space a person takes up. For me, it more like ball of foot and heel because of the lenght of my legs in relation to the design of the driver side dash, steering column, and free space. I have to twist my leg around abit to get the appropriate position to brake then shift before i enter a corner. I'm working on just using my side my foot so i don't have to twist my right leg that much anymore. I'm finding out that i like to do heel to toe better, i guess i got use to it.

[pio_masaki]

I started learning to double clutch/rev match a few months ago to help with my second gear synchro problems, mostly just to slow down before turning, nothing to do with drifting. Since I got that down pretty good I started to attempt heel and toe. I can't do it with my heel, and for some reason the only way it works for me is to use the outside of my right foot on the gas, and my big toe and some of the ball of my foot on the brake.

My throttle cable is also iffy right now, so once I get that taken care of the engine should respond much better to less foot twisting

Only reason I'm attempting to learn this is to be able to downshift while applying the brakes, as it is right now I have to brake harder then normal, downshift, and brake again, and it makes the nose go up and down and probably doesn't look all that pretty.

[clay payton]

Shift during a drift? Not bright, and not done by the pros

3rd gear
initiate braking drift, start sliding
shift to 2nd


gear changes during drift are very very common among the pros.

[marshun]

Originally posted by GRiDRaceTech
Shift during a drift? Not bright, and not done by the pros.

wrong. very wrong. i will let you correct yourself on this one.

[ACDSupra7]

Think about in terms of the Irwindale setup used in D1 USA last Feb.

That first sweeper, you're coming in with a clutch kick in 3rd gear. However, by the time you get past the first few cones, and start sliding to the right, and then left again into the second corner, you need to be in second gear. I've never driven the course when it was setup like that myself, but my guess is you're braking on the approach to the cones, and you heal toe there. It'd be nice if Alex was still around to clarify this.

[pio_masaki]

Well, in a long drift in an underpowered car, wouldn't heel and toe almost be mandatory if your car couldn't overpower the traction in 3rd, but can in second? I guess that also depends on the method used in the first place too, I'm still learning here

OT, ACDSupra, as a fellow MA70/1 driver, does your W58 tranny have problems "finding" second gear above 30 mph, or is that just the R154 tranny? Its the only reason I started downshifting with the rev match instead of just doing it, it wouldn't find it over 30 mph, and when it finally did it was really harsh. Granted the tranny is already trashed, but at least it helps a little.

[D1misser]

haha when i was in PE last year we were doing square dancing(please dont ask) and there was this song that went "a heel and a toe and a heel and a toe and a slide slide slide" i was like wow thats funny

[chuaboi36]

um may seem lyk a dumb question (probably is) but wuts heel toe and how does it help drifting?

[ACDSupra7]

Pio - Mine has trouble finding R once in a while. It's probably the clutch more than anything that is the problem. Try asking emission, he knows alot more than I do.

Chua - Do a search, I know it's been covered in detail before.

[URMachines]

chuaboi36- heel toe is a process of downshifting and rev matching so you dont upset the driveline and weight transition. the process goes as follows:
1.push brake firmly and steadily
2.push in clutch and down shift to the desired gear
3. while still holding the brake, with the side of your foot(heel), blip the throttle to rev match the tranny for the higher gear,and release clutch when the revs match

it sounds a bit confusing but after a days practice, youll be good.
ive been doing it so long now it is 2nd nature and i cant drive normally with out it.

[ACDSupra7]

www.turnfast.com has a good article on it. With pictures and what not. It's useful in about any type of driving your doing. Autocross, drifting, road racing, etc

[Driftday]

If you really want an in depth look at Heel toe downshift, we have a chapter explained in our DVD by Ryan Hampton (Formula D competitor and former IRL race car driver).

You can watch a teaser here:

http://www.upgrademotoring.com/video...small5_NEW.mpg

Our video trailer:

http://www.upgrademotoring.com/video...Comp11_NEW.wmv

Naoki
www.driftday.com

[malcolm]

it also helps to double-clutch when you heel-and-toe, because it synchronizes the speeds of the two shafts in the gearbox. If you could do it precisely enough, you can heel-and-toe without using the clutch at all.

double-clutching isn't faster, but it helps your synchros a LOT. A lot of road racers don't do this, and they always say that "oh, third gear in the [insert car name here] is weak, and after a season of racing, it'll grind." Wrong, if you double-clutch with all downshifts, your gearbox will last twice or three times as long.

[SilviaLove]

I'm may be wrong but isn't heel toe relatively similiar to double clutching. First, double clutching is done to match the speed that the the wheels and the axels are spinning to the same speed of the gear in the transmission, to avoid the jerk that is felt when they don't match while down shifting. Heel to toe is done to revmatch, such as double clutching, and to slow a vehicle down to not upset the weight blance greatly when taking a corner during braking. humm, I need to think about it more, things are not so clear now. I couldn't miss DJ Tiesto he doesn't come around this area much...yawn.

[Craftsman]

Originally posted by SilviaLove
I'm may be wrong but isn't heel toe relatively similiar to double clutching. First, double clutching is done to match the speed that the the wheels and the axels are spinning to the same speed of the gear in the transmission, to avoid the jerk that is felt when they don't match while down shifting. Heel to toe is done to revmatch, such as double clutching, and to slow a vehicle down to not upset the weight blance greatly when taking a corner during braking.

You got it..

Heel-Toe is to make downshifts smooth while braking.

Double clutching is actually to make downshifts smooth without braking.

Anyways,
Matt.

[GRiDRaceTech]

Clay and Marshun- I just watched a couple of my drifting videos. Orido shifted mid-turn because he lost momentum in a Levin, and there was this one Civic drifter who downshifted mid-drift, but that was it. Otherwise, no one else shifted mid-drift. Keiichi didn't even do it in the clip from the Drift Bible that I have. Oh, but maybe he's not as good as you guys.

Gimme a break... shifting mid-corner disrupts both balance and power delivery. When balancing a car that is over the edge of available traction, I can't imagine why anyone would do it. When it comes to grip circumstances, it's absolutely an amateur mistake.

[MrodDrft]

shifting during a drift is a VERY common practice