Defining some Terms that are Tossed Around

[jboss]

There are too many people tossing around words they picked up from the internet and garbage drift videos that dont actualy know what they are or confuse them often....

Words like:

Power over
Power slide
Clutch kick
Shift lock
throttle off
LFB
Feint
Flick
Scandanavian flick
Dori
Choku dori
etc etc....

I dont know how some people think that power over or power slide have anything to do with FF drifting....

Or how anyone could possibly respect shift lock or E brake on a FR but not E-brake or feint on FF....

It must be that people dont really know what these words mean so lets spell it out and end the confusion.

Maybe make it a sticky........

[CRASHDRIVE]

http://www.driftsession.com/technique.htm

How isn't that easy?

[GRiDRaceTech]

Powerslide- An extended power-oversteer slide, sometimes not even considered drifting.

Throttle-off/lift-throttle- This one's a no brainer... you lift off the throttle to get the car to slide.

Feint/Flick/Scandinavian flick- All the same

[LexmarkX73]

double clutch

technically not drift related but 99.9% of automotive forums whore this around.

damn you vin diesel!

[GRiDRaceTech]

Double clutching goes like this:
1. clutch in
2. shift to neutral
3. clutch out
4. blip throttle
5. clutch in
6. downshift
7. clutch out

Do you see why most people just heel-toe?

[karN]

heel-toe and double clutching are entirely different.

Heel-toe was created to brake while maintaing the revs while downshifting.

Double clutching was created because trucks didnt have synchros.

[GRiDRaceTech]

Yes, they are different. And yet, they can be used to the same purpose.
We've had this discussion several times on the board so far.

By the way, you're partially wrong: heel-toe was created to match, not maintain, revs while downshifting during braking.

[Craftsman]

Originally posted by GRiDRaceTech
Yes, they are different. And yet, they can be used to the same purpose.
We've had this discussion several times on the board so far.

By the way, you're partially wrong: heel-toe was created to match, not maintain, revs while downshifting during braking.

Yep... Heel-Toe is mainly used by grip racers to prevent heavy oversteer. They are trying to avoid the surge of torque while downshifting to prevent a drift.

It's used by drifters to induce a more relaxed drift than a clutch kick or feint. For drifters, it's the weight transfer and the oversteer from throttle that induces and holds the drift...

Matt.

[f8ldzz]

Originally posted by Craftsman
Yep... Heel-Toe is mainly used by grip racers to prevent heavy oversteer. They are trying to avoid the surge of torque while downshifting to prevent a drift.

It's used by drifters to induce a more relaxed drift than a clutch kick or feint. For drifters, it's the weight transfer and the oversteer from throttle that induces and holds the drift...

Hmmm....I needed to reread this like 3 times to understand what you were trying to say...

I thought heel-and-toe is used for smoother transition from braking into cornering.
It's also used a lot for trail braking.
This also saved synchros on the downshift.
If done correctly, you don't have an abrupt weight-transfer upset of the chassis from braking to downshifting to cornering.
All of these techniques are very advanced driving techniques.

[GRiDRaceTech]

Hmmm... I needed to reread what you said like three times just to realize that you think I'm a normal peon. I'm not.

[f8ldzz]

Originally posted by GRiDRaceTech
Hmmm... I needed to reread what you said like three times just to realize that you think I'm a normal peon. I'm not.

So you're an abnormal peon?

[malcolm]

The scandinavian flick is a modified version of the feint. Basically, you feint, but hold the car in a drift using the brakes facing away from the corner as you approach the corner. Once you reach the turn-in point, let off the brakes. The weight shifts to the rear, and pitches the car in the other direction, and then you can drift through the corner as usual. This is used a LOT in loose-surface rallying, but not so much so in drifting (because points are awarded for initiating the drift facing the corner early, not away from the corner).

By the way, heel-and-toe is only for rev-matching and WILL NOT help your synchros. Only double-clutching DURING your heel-and-toe downshift will relieve the stress on the synchros.

Also, LFB/left foot braking can be used to keep the car sideways approaching a corner (either during a scandinavian flick, or just linking corners together in one, fluid drift), as well as adjusting the drift angle mid-corner. I used it a fair bit in tighter corners when I raced a turbo FC, but since moving to the Corvette C5, it doesn't seem to help. With automatics, I left foot brake all the time (not my personal car... it's the parents' car). It could also be used in a turbocharged car to keep the boost up through the corner (ie. then you could stab the throttle quickly mid-corner, which was a technique that Ayrton Senna used in the final years of Turbo F1 cars).

[shimos]

unofficial terms used in Hawaii:

Bukkake - spash / splatter, to splash / splatter. ie: "I went off road over there, now get bukkake all over my rims."

A.Y.C.E. - All You Can Eat. ie: "See the big guy, he's one AYCE driftah."

Chaku-Daris - aka Choku Doris. "Try watch me between the rails, I going bus some chaku-daris."

Hatchis - short for hachi-roku. also hatch on a hachi-roku. AE86. ie: "The hatchi get choke rust on my hatchi."

Bobs - short for "Bobura." Japanese national or someone who looks FOB Japanese. ie: "Check out those bob chicks over there, they look like the kine Japanese porno stars."

Chicken Nut Bread - the unofficial breakfast of drifters in Hawaii. ie: "If your girlfriend can't swim and you throw her in the ocean, chicken nut bread."

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by shimos
unofficial terms used in Hawaii:

Bukkake - spash / splatter, to splash / splatter. ie: "I went off road over there, now get bukkake all over my rims."

HAHA.. dude hawaii sounds like a hilarious place to drift.

[Ripper]

Originally posted by shimos
Chicken Nut Bread - the unofficial breakfast of drifters in Hawaii. ie: "If your girlfriend can't swim and you throw her in the ocean, chicken nut bread."

wow who taught you these terms?

[blargonator]

speaking of braking techniques. most of you know who michael shumacher (probably destroyed his name) is and he brakes with his left foot. i never realized that does not mean much because there are only 2 pedals in a F1 car. so might as well use what you have.

[malcolm]

most F1 drivers brake with their left foot. I believe Rubens Barrichello is one of the few that still use his right foot. Jean Alesi was another driver who preferred to right-foot-brake. He said it just felt more natural, and he felt he was faster when he used his right foot.

Depending on the car, I left-foot-brake sometimes mid-corner, and if I get into a car without a power-booster for the brakes, I might start left-foot-braking for corners where I don't need to downshift. If I ever get into a formula car, you can bet my right foot will never touch the brake... (providing left-foot-braking is possible in that specific car!)

[Drifterlunchb0x]

final!!! SOMEONE MENCHINS LEFT FOOT BRAKING!!!!!!!!!


This is a technique that i use when doing highspeed drifts to help initiate. Its a technique my friend Jason taught me ( rally driver for about 12 years ) and its worked wonders on initiation than normal braking or heel toeing for me. Rally drivers also use this technique so not just f1 drivers. It works wonders on transfering the weight.

So happy to see ppl actually talking about this, most other forums i get laughed at for discussing this style. Kinda shows the ignorance of the other forums i guess.

[blargonator]

im glad i actually got a response at all. anyways another thing about F1 cars is there is.....nowhere to put your feet! have you seen the interior of those lay-z boys? they have to make specific seats which most of you probably know....but anyways you dont have anywhere to put your legs. it looks like something homer made out of a barbeque(spelling) one thing with rally driving is braking points are everything because you dont want to lock up your tires on some leaves but you dont want to slow down too much. but with those guys it is all about speed.

[Drifterlunchb0x]

yeah i dont understand why ppl dont think about left foot braking...if it works with f1 and rally cars why wouldnt it work for ff and fr and awd to drift....:-D

[clarksteiner]

Well I've heard guys talk about neutral throttle. what is neutral throttle is that just lifting off the accelerator and coasting?

what is hard to master, left foot braking or heel and toeing? i know its two different things but i just was curious

[GRiDRaceTech]

Neutral throttle is also called maintenance throttle. It is where you are simply maintaining constant pressure on the throttle.

Left foot braking is MUCH MUCH MUCH harder to master than heel-and-toeing. The only people who can really do it well are guys who were weaned on go-karts or were active in rally at a very young age. Otherwise, it's practically impossible to do to the fullest extent.

[SidewaysGts]

Never heard of neutral throttle- so i cant comment on that.

Rally driver use LFB for a different reason. They have whats known as a turbo restrictor- think of a restrictive tube on the turbo. This really kills a turbo, and inreases the lag time. To help prevent turbo lag a driver will brake, and keep on the throttle (to keep the revs going) so the turbo will keep spining. This isnt as common as it once was with BOVs and in specific the ALS (anti-lag system, initial d fanatics would know this as a mid firing system)

For normal street driving LFB can have its advantages if you make a mistake a bit, but its not something i would reccomend. Its a poor use of brakes. Your giving the wheels power while trying to stop them- just think about it for a moment. In FF cars where cornering was too fast lfb can be used to create a decent slip angle however and help cope with understeer- but there are other ways to do so as well.

For heel-toe, its neither a "grip based" technique or "drift based" . Its simply the fastest and smoothest way to brake and down shift. Since your braking, rev matching, and down shifting all at one time- rather then doing it all one by one.

"Or how anyone could possibly respect shift lock or E brake on a FR but not E-brake or feint on FF"

I dont respect hand brakes in FR for drifting, nor do i considering it a drift technique for FF.

Some can call it drifting- i just call it @$$ dragging.


Added- censorship is funny around here

[scirocco]

That brings me to a point: I used to do that on my crx to drift sometimes. I agree that it is not the same as drifting, but lets just call it drifting for this post. I would brake and floor it (low hp so i could use lots of throttle) thereby locking the rears and keeping the fronts rolling. It's just a cheap and inefficient yet fun way to e brake basically. It is also very useful for cars with foot parking brakes where it is the only practical way to lock the rears. This also reminds me that when I'm going for a really fast time attack lap or just want to pass someone, I eliminate turbo lag by putting on a turbo that's still got lag, but great peak boost (keep in mind my scirocco is on a CVT and I keep the revs high and slip the clutch whenever my revs are below their limit, even if it is only 1000rpms short. This keeps boost up and still puts down the same power since no CVT is perfect for all conditions, this helps a lot.

[SidewaysGts]

Haha, ive always had the craziest image in my head of one of the cars with a foot-parking brake,

Trying to heel-toe and hitting that pedal to lock up the back tires to start a drift