Left Foot Braking For FF

5zigenek4 · 10-10-2004, 10:39 AM

This is my 1st post here and if its irrelevant here please delete the post.

Well I'm from Singapore and I own a 99 Civic SiR /VTi-R or known as an EK4 and am an avid fan of drifting. (even tho I own an FF) And no, I dun *Censored**Censored**Censored* drag my car...

I'd like to know if u guys have any good vids on FF drivetrain drivers using left foot braking with a camera that is shooting at his feet as well.

And good job for all the vids. I love em... I hope to own an MR-S soon. Any comments about that car guys?

drift180sx · 10-10-2004, 10:43 AM

the mr-s is a great car but not as *Censored**Censored**Censored* happy as its older brothers. good for high speed drifting or great for touge runs just a lil underpowered but thats nothing a turbo cant fix. haha looks great w/ the hard top 2

5zigenek4 · 10-10-2004, 10:46 AM

Actually I'm making a choice between the MR-S and an EVO 6... Either my Girl or my sister will kill me if I actually buy an MR-S. Well I'd rather do an engine swap with a celicca GT4 than to install a turbo tho =P

sidebyslide · 10-10-2004, 12:02 PM

MR-S is actually a great grip platform rather then drift. it is underpowered but rather then turbo a more effective increase of power is swapping the celica GTS engine not the GT4. The 3SGTE is not a direct swap unlike the 6 speed GTS which nearly bolts right in. And further enhances the balance of the car. Basically making it a cheaper Lotus Elise.

Parry · 10-10-2004, 11:45 PM

...and none of you even know what left foot braking is.

I'd love to help you out, but I don't have any videos. I am working on the same thing myself.

If I recorded something would that help? I don't have the technology to simultaniously show the car and my feet, but I can show one than the other probably.

5zigenek4 · 10-11-2004, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Parry
...and none of you even know what left foot braking is.

I'd love to help you out, but I don't have any videos. I am working on the same thing myself.

If I recorded something would that help? I don't have the technology to simultaniously show the car and my feet, but I can show one than the other probably.

that would be PuRrrrfect!

5zigenek4 · 10-11-2004, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sidebyslide
MR-S is actually a great grip platform rather then drift. it is underpowered but rather then turbo a more effective increase of power is swapping the celica GTS engine not the GT4. The 3SGTE is not a direct swap unlike the 6 speed GTS which nearly bolts right in. And further enhances the balance of the car. Basically making it a cheaper Lotus Elise.

Yeah, fell in love with the car after drivin it. Very nimble car with decent power. And thanks for the info on the engine as I'm not exactly sure as well.

I won't be buyin it till early next year tho. Still deciding. My girl would be buying a honda again so I'll have some fun in it for a couple of months before anythin =)

And Thanks guys for the warm welcome even tho I am a Civic driver.

Nismo_r34 · 10-11-2004, 06:47 PM

Watch inital D. There is one when he fought against the red ek6 (civic). They will tell you about the left foot braking.

Parry · 10-11-2004, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nismo_r34
Watch inital D. There is one when he fought against the red ek6 (civic). They will tell you about the left foot braking.

Are you serious?

Wow. Leave now.

sidebyslide · 10-11-2004, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nismo_r34
Watch inital D. There is one when he fought against the red ek6 (civic). They will tell you about the left foot braking.

ek6....haha i hope that was a typo

5zigenek4 · 10-12-2004, 03:48 AM

Animations are animations =) I wana see the Real thing... I tried it out at an open car park and it felt totally wierd and I have no idea how that would help me in the circuit. From what i read, its supposed to shift the load to the front wheels and make the rear wheels lose traction making it behave like an FR car. I'd love to see some vids tho.

dudeman · 10-12-2004, 05:49 AM

ek6 lol i think u mean eg and anyhow i doubt initial d is a reliable source for teaching yourself how to drift properly,its a cartoon and meant for entertainment not accuracy,anyhow the best i could think of is to experiment with some left foot braking in a parkinglot or someplace where noone is around,and just use the same principles that a fr drift would have i would think jab hard on the brake use some ebrake and cut the wheel to control,in my focus that usually does the trick for me when i feel courageous but i can tell the car really doesnt like it so i dont do it much myself.good luck tho.

5zigenek4 · 10-12-2004, 08:46 AM

Er... actually the technique is to "massage" the brakes with ya left foot... It takes alot of getting used to coz ya left foot is used to the force applied on the clutch. =) And erm its not a "drift" technique. Its supposed to break the rear a little to negotiate sharper turns... I think...

Parry · 10-12-2004, 11:07 AM

Try it again, but do it at the limits of traction. Like really throw the car around the corner, hard enough so you are getting understeer or whatever, and then gently work the brakes a little.

You can use it to shift a little bit of weight to the front wheels to help traction, or to lock the rears completely and anything in between.

Left foot braking is not easy to perform or easy to use really. I've been working on it on and off for a while now.

5zigenek4 · 10-12-2004, 11:30 AM

Ahhh... good suggestion. Will do that ASAP =)

Cheerios

SaintDrift · 10-12-2004, 08:21 PM

OMG! Yes MR-S= the awesomeness. Sorry, I find it rare for someone to be interested in the Spyder. Anyways, here's mine. I always like showing it off

And the parts that set it from the rest:

Feel free to visit www.spyderchat.com or a bit more noob and young(most Spyder drivers are old as hell) friendly: socalspyders.com

Usually I believe left-foot braking is used for highspeed turns. It slows down the rate at which the rear tires move shifting the car to a bit more oversteer to negotiate fast turns. I'm sure it can be used for other reasons. I'm not sure if your Civic is this sophisticated, but I use to try it in my VW. It had an electronic throttle control and I later found out you can't apply gas at the same time you brake. Safety feature I guess.

Darkstar · 10-13-2004, 10:01 AM

MR-S? Great car, I really like it.

Left foot braking can be used often not only in FF cars. Well, in the midships it can really be helpful, as they have light front grip, what sometimes makes them understeer at the corner enterance. Left foot can solve the problem if you're using it correctly.

SaintDrift · 10-13-2004, 07:12 PM

You should be breaking at turn-in anyways.

Darkstar · 10-14-2004, 01:29 PM

Yeah, but not too strong, or you'll end up facing the exactly opposite direction you probably wanted to go and surely land in the field/tree/tractor/whatever after a short flight.

Tweak · 10-14-2004, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Parry
...and none of you even know what left foot braking is.

I DO!!

It's a tecnique used to balance your cars weight from understeering or oversteering.

But no I do not have any good videos of someone leftfoot braking.

I have however been practicing it in my camry, and I love it. Turns I can normally only take at 40 i can take at 65-70. It puts a whole new meaning to two foot drivers

(for automatic that is)

aeight6rollin · 10-14-2004, 07:00 PM

i can vouch for left-foot braking.
i was at an autocross when i still had my integra and decided to try it on my second run. i drifted two corners because of it.

it will take a LONG time to get used to because of, as previously said, the left foot is normally used for the clutch. practice on the street when comming to an empty intersection. just try and get a feel for the presure thats needed.

have fun, and be safe!

Tercel_Drifter · 10-15-2004, 07:38 PM

IMO left foot breaking is a tech. that is only 2nd to feint in FF cars, Hard to get use to but works really nicely, personnaly I prefer using is without ABS.

Drift For Food · 10-17-2004, 12:41 AM

I've never personally worked on left foot braking, never had a need I guess. If you find yourself switching between the throttle and the brake a lot on a hairy high speed corner, left foot braking may be the ticket. The only benifit it has is that you have instant weight adjustments. If you just use a single foot for both throttle and braking, you have that short lag time between the time you take the foot off the gas and put it on the brake or visa versa. Having one foot on each can eliminate this lag time and provide more instant adjustments. I believe this is the main purpose of this technique.

As well, it also gives you the ability to brake lightly with the rear wheels even while on throttle. It seems a bit counter productive to me, but it may just provide some light loss of traction in the rear to bring the back end around. Note, I didn't say weight transfer. For weight transfer, you'll need to slow down. If you just apply brake and add throttle to compensate, you neither lose speed nor move weight forward. The only thing you do is provide some light braking force on the rear tires...just like light e-brake usage. However, this method may provide a more sensitive and controllable "e-brake" that should be easier to feel. You'll add brake wear and heat build up doing this a lot. You might want to invest in a good brake setup if you're going to get heavy into something like this.

I'm not sure how much vids will help you. Really, it's just something you try and get used to. For example, when heel-toe was new to me, vids really didn't help me much. It gave me the initial idea of what people were talking about, but the actual doing is really a personal thing. Everything's physically different between every car and every person. What you see on the vid may not be how you'll physically do it...you may not be able to depending on the design of the car or yourself(flexability, rangle of motion, size, etc.) This isn't really an issue with left foot braking really. One foot on each pedal is pretty simple. Doing it is a little more work.

Parry · 10-17-2004, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Note, I didn't say weight transfer. For weight transfer, you'll need to slow down. If you just apply brake and add throttle to compensate, you neither lose speed nor move weight forward.

I am pretty sure you are wrong here. Even if you maintain speed, I'm fairly sure that the drag on the rear wheels as opposed ot the front will help load up the front of the car.

Of course, it has been rumored that I do not know everything

Drift For Food · 10-21-2004, 12:27 AM

Hmm, you may be right. The rear tires braking will induce a small amount of torque to push down on the front end. The amount of torque would be the braking force times the lever arm(bottom of tire up to car's center of gravity). So, I guess you're right on that one. However, I don't think it will be much of a load on the front wheels. You'd be countered by the front suspension times the full length of the car all the way back to the rear tires. It may be just enough to gain some oversteer...if the car is relatively neutral in balance. A stock production car would probably have too much built in understeer for that torque effect to even make a difference. It would be interesting to try that and see how much the front end dives, if noticable. Too bad mine's awd.

Hmm, just thought up of another thing. Now when you apply the e-brake, you'd have to counter it with increased throttle. A question for you: Would this increased throttle and resulting increase in forward force on the front tires fully counteract the torque produced by the e-brake?