drifting a formula car..... (a SLIGHT amount on ENTRY) ;)

[malcolm]

Today, I spent most of the day testing a Formula BMW. I was taught a technique that is largely unknown to most drivers. I learned a LOT today.

Basically what you do is you brake as normal, but let let off, and let the car coast into the corner (NO throttle, NO brakes), scrubbing off speed as it rolls in. Then, AFTER the apex, mash the throttle. Obviously, this would be different in a 750 bhp Champ Car, but still, throttle application would be a little more abrupt than using a more classic style.

If you are getting on the throttle at or before the apex, you aren't entering the corner fast enough. It's counter-intuitive, but it works. In some corners, this technique can be worth upwards of half a second in that corner alone. Today, I spent most of the day testing a Formula BMW. I was taught a technique that is largely unknown to most drivers. Basically what you do is you brake as normal, but let let off, and let the car coast into the corner (NO throttle, NO brakes), scrubbing off speed as it rolls in. Then, AFTER the apex, mash the throttle (obviously, this would be different in a 750 bhp Champ Car, but still, throttle application would be a little more abrupt than using a more classic style). If you are getting on the throttle at or before the apex, you aren't entering the corner fast enough. It's counter-intuitive, but it works. In some corners, this technique can be worth upwards of half a second in that corner alone. (I've got some interesting data-acquisition graphs that show the gains quite well)

Now, rolling into a corner would scrub off less speed than slightly drifting (about 2-3 degrees). Therefore, put the car into the corner 5-7 mph faster, and allow the car to drift on the entry, and you will scrub off that extra speed by the time you get to the apex of the corner. It was quite weird to have a team owner say "ok, now I want you to keep entering this corner harder and harder until you either slide wide or spin." He wanted to see a tiny bit of oversteer on entry. It was raining when he said this, so the oversteer wasn't much of a request to fulfill!

The owner mentioned that when he followed some of the faster drivers in Formula Atlantic, he said it was insane how much speed they entered the corners with. They would throw the car in (drifting at about a 2-3 degree slip angle) and would coast/drift most of the way through the corner. Since they were almost at the exit of the corner when they could get back in the throttle, they didn't need to feed it in slowly; they just mashed the throttle and accelerated hard.

Very neat stuff.

[DoriftuEvo]

That is incredibly neat. How were you granted such a privelage? I'd kill to drive a formula. Hopefully I'm on my way, second autocross this saturday.

[malcolm]

well, I've been in GT racing for about 4 years now... my sponsor, Konica-Minolta, was keen on seeing me in a formula car, so they initially were thinking about putting me in a Formula Atlantic car, but considering the cost of running one of those cars, they decided the Formula BMW would be a better way to go. (probably a good thing, because an Atlantic car would have been a huge dive into the deep end considering my lack of open-wheel experience. However, that could be a next step for me. We shall see...

[Craftsman]

*Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* it, Go into drifting

[malcolm]

doriftu, think about going to a racing school... I am not sure about who to recommend (Derek Daly's school maybe??). Anyway, they can give you tips on how to be quick, and I am sure you can get some decent track time.

[Tsunami]

That's pretty insane. Seems like that throws the 'ole "slow in, fast out, fast in, dead out" right out the window. Probably the reason why they don't let it out is that it's such a dangerous thing to try unless you're skilled enough.

*thinks to himself.........you drive a 3600lb car, don't even think about it*

Congrats on the step up to Formula BMW. It's a good opportunity to show your skills without having to jump into a dogfight with the seasoned Atlantic guys. What's cool about that is that you'll be getting paid, can concentrate on your driving as opposed to working on the car, and it frees up your other ride to use as a drift toy.

[Gahzi]

Hey Malcolm where are u located in Ontario? Im from ottawa

Btw: I didnt even think there was any racing schools in ontario where did u go?


It seems pretty nuts to drive a formula bmw car, not many people get to do it.

Btw: When did u start racing and etc.

[ma1nevent1]

Gahzi, racing school??? Are you joking? cause you havent even passed your g2 test yet. YOUR TERRIBLE. Gahzi is the ultimate drifing poser, he has never drifted in his life.

[malcolm]

Are you joking? cause you havent even passed your g2 test yet.

ma1nevent1, I went through racing school, and my entire first year of sports car racing with only a G1. (learners permit, for those who are not familiar with the ontario graduated licencing system).

Gahzi, I live in Kingston... well, go to school here right now ("home" is a small town about an hour away... Picton). The Motorsport Club of Ottawa has a racing school at Shannonville every year. I was an instructor there this past summer. Most schools you have to take your own car to learn in, but others, like the Bridgestone school at Mosport, they supply older F2000 cars. I think there is still a Jim Russel school at Mont Tremblant, which would likely be closer.

I started racing karts when I was 10, got into sports car racing when I was 16, and I am 20 now. I think there's a link to my website in my profile... check it out if you want (a little bit about me, some nice photos... I need to upload the photos from the test however... they'll be up in a day or two. I just handed in two huge assignments today, so I just want to relax for a while!!).

[ma1nevent1]

malcom your my hero... you drove a f1 car. You know your gahzis idle.

[malcolm]

haha, a formula BMW isn't an F1 car. :P

oh wow, threats over the internet. show up at my door, then I'll believe you. till then, shut up.

anyway, I just thought some people may be interested in this technique of letting the car do a slight four-wheel drift, totally off-throttle and off the brakes most of the way through the corner, and then get hard in the throttle on the exit. Like Tsunami said, "slow in, fast out" is just plain slow...

[GRiDRaceTech]

Originally posted by andylance001
malcom, be scared of ghazi. hes gonna destroy you at racing. i have a cottage in picton so im gonna kill your family when i go there next. i hope u crash. have a nice day

Ummm... riiiiiiiight. You're all of what, 11?

Malcolm... I find that 99.9% of posts by you are informative. Thank you for helping to keep my head from exploding.

That said, my e30 loved being driven like that. Lift, let it settle into a minor slide, peg gas after apex.

[f8ldzz]

Man, you're talking about a really advanced driving technique which 99.44% of the people in here cannnot do, including me.
You'd need total control of your race car and predict it's every move and reaction.
I think it's a waste posting it in here.

[malcolm]

thanks grid, same goes for you. yeah, I'll bet I would have picked up on it if I was brought up racing formula cars, or if I went into pro sportscar racing a few years ago. Just staying in Canadian motorsport has just kept my driving skills stationary, because I've never really needed to be on the edge 100% of the time. Only recently, when we had a stock engine in the vette, did I have to dig really deep to find each and every tenth. Still, I am not with professional drivers, so I don't get to analyze their techniques, and adapt to be able to compete with them. It's only when I got some coaching from the team owner that I started to realize that there could be even more time gained by just improving my driving.

But yeah, I can't wait to try that technique with the vette. I don't think it will be as responsive to that style as a formula car (because of the weight), but it might work out rather well. Should be interesting.

[SidewaysGts]

Maybe this is more advanced, but wouldnt it be a good idea to try and find the "maximum speed" for that corner, and only get on the throttle after braking to -maintain- that speed instead of accelerating, so you can still use the tires for full turning? Or does this just over complicate things?

[malcolm]

ok, well, the thing is that you actually do find the maximum speed through the corner. For example, lets say at the apex, the max speed is 50 mph.

-start braking from 100 mph, and downshift.

-before turn-in, let off the brakes, and let the car settle

-at about 60 mph, turn in, and let the car drift to the apex. (the specific speed is just something you need to work on, and then just do it by feel).

-at the apex, the car is now going the required 50 mph.

-after the apex, get hard on the throttle.

Now, taking the classic line, you might be able to take the entire corner at 55 mph. However, you would have to slow down to about 55 mph before turn-in. Then you would go through the entire corner at only 55 mph. With the other method, you enter the corner way faster, thus allowing you to brake later... Then you have all that time where you are faster than the other car while you are going towards the apex.

Here's a graph. The red line shows the car getting off the brakes earlier, and allowing the car to coast and drift into the corner. the green area shows all the time where the red line is above the black line, and thus going faster. the red area is where the black line is going faster than the red line. In this case, if you calculate the area between the lines, it will give you the difference in time between the two. (theorems of calculus...) anyway, in simple terms, there is more green than red, so therefore the red line is faster.

[SidewaysGts]

I meant applying throtle to your technique, not doing it the classic way. Braking Like you mentioned, then coasting in to the maximum speed, then getting on the throttle only to maintain your speed andn to accelerate. Your graph shows a point where the red speed is lowwer then the black speed (For simplicity), im wondering if combining both would be ap ractical way to keep it above at all times.

Example: Maximum speedi s 55 (number you used) Brake down to 65 and stay off the pedals and coast itno the turn, drifting slightly to help rotate the car through the corner and take off the excess speed, then when you hit 55 in the corner get on the gas enough -only- to maintain the speed, then accelerate hard out of the corner. However my reasoning tells me this is easier said then done. Too much to watch and too little were humanly capable of doing to properly time and watch everything.

[malcolm]

the thing is, if you're getting on the throttle partially to keep your speed up, then you could have gone into the corner faster...

[SidewaysGts]

See where the red line dips below the black line according to your drawing? why couldnt you get on the gas at that point to keep the speed up above 55, only using it to maintain your speed andn ot accelerate

[Oki Drifter]

HEY that's they same technique you use for drifting in the Ridge Racer Games

[malcolm]

well, in theory, it's not supposed to dip below. the **perfect** driver would coast/drift in, and never go below the "black line." Once you are past the apex, the theoretically perfect driver would be hard in the throttle just as the speed ticks 55 mph. I am basically just illustrating what the very good driver would be able to do in reality.

[zdss14]

hey malcolm, what series do you compete in?

[SidewaysGts]

That makes sense then. Is the "exit of corner" section just after the apex, or actually out of the corner at the corners exit (just for personal curiosity)

[malcolm]

well, this past year, I raced in a few different series.... however, none of them amounted to much more than a regional series (ie. provincial, or the equivalent of an SCCA Region series). Basically, there is no national GT championship. The FIA delegates in Canada have stated that any series that wants to be called a "national" championship must pay them $25,000. That's just for the title. So yeah, basically what I raced in was GT1, in Quebec and Ontario. I also did some testing for a Radical SR3 (google it), and just recently did a test for a Formula BMW team (they also run in Formula Atlantic).

as for next year, I have no clue. Sponsorship will be a major factor. If I can get some good funding, I might do a few races in a pro series somewhere, but it could be open wheel or GT cars... who knows. If I can't get much funding, I might just have to do another year in Canada, perhaps going after a Quebec championship to change things up a bit... Can't really go into the states, because the car isn't really legal for any series down there. Because of Canada's lower population, there will be less cars out, so we have what amounts to championships with no performance rules. It makes for some wild racing, and even crazier cars.

SidewaysGTS: the exit of the corner, the way I am portraying it, is just after the apex. Basically, the way I view it, it's just where you get in the gas and accelerate.

[SidewaysGts]

everything ive ever read says your supposed to accelerate the the apex, so i was just clearing that up. I was makign sure you didnt mean to litteraly take the -entire- corner with no gas coasting through it then just blasting out in a straight line.