Drift w/ Manual Steering Setup?

[Boostsfed]

who drift w/ manual steering setup? man, you must have quick hands pulling the steering wheel hard through each turns.

[ramtookrazy]

i dont have power steering. im practicing drifting with it as is, all stock. its it safe to even try this? im very curious about the possibilities and if there are any consequences of anything. not that i dont believe i can do it, just that i dont know all of whats really recommended that you have for drifting. i do get sideways a bit whenever its completely safe and i can. its hard but is it safe at all? ive heard of people loosing thumbs without power steering

[Parry]

Are you serious? You're not going to loose your fkn thumbs. Without power assistance, it's just a little harder to turn the whel.

This board totally lacks common sense. Around here it's freakin UNCOMMON sense.

[Boostsfed]

Originally posted by Parry
Are you serious? You're not going to loose your fkn thumbs. Without power assistance, it's just a little harder to turn the whel.

This board totally lacks common sense. Around here it's freakin UNCOMMON sense.

hahah exactly...

my arms are actually getting buff from it lol

[SidewaysGts]

Bottom line; Power steering makes it easier to get the wheel where you want. Manual gives you a little more "Feed back". its as simple as that.

[ramtookrazy]

Originally posted by Parry
Are you serious? You're not going to loose your fkn thumbs. Without power assistance, it's just a little harder to turn the whel.

This board totally lacks common sense. Around here it's freakin UNCOMMON sense.

thanks for the UNCOMMON answer parry.

thanks sideways.

[Parry]

You asked for it.

[Drift For Food]

Generally, a manual steering setup will be geared lower to make steering a little easier. What you'll get is steering potentially similar to powersteering and you'll gain some extra turns of the wheel. A normal power steering car will have somewhere between 2 and 3 turns of the wheel lock to lock usually. A non-power steering car will usually be more along the lines of 4 to 6 turns of the wheel lock to lock. My old Ranger actually had 8 full revolutions lock to lock. As well, some powered cars may have even 4 full revolutions. Every car is different, both in turns, feel, feedback, and effort - powered or unpowered steering.

The quick hands thing is something, yes. My truck was tough to drift. To be as quick as needed, I found myself needing to let go of the steering wheel at times to just let the wheel spin some. A night, this was very bad. I never did get used to night driving with that thing. I needed to know where the steering wheel was facing to even know if the steering was straight or turned. It wasn't a vehicle of "feel" There was a lot of vibration, looseness, swaying, jostling, etc... but not much for feel. Everything felt heavy and sloppy too. I say this because feedback isn't guaratied just by not having power steering. My old Lesabre had great feedback. It had enough pull to tell you where it wanted to go. Little bumps and texture transmitted though the steering nicely albiet weakly. All at the same time, you could toss the car like a rag doll and turn the wheel from lock to lock with just a single finger on the wheel. It was that easy to turn.

If I had a choice, I'd pick power steering any day. I prefer the easy and quicker steering over any "feel" you think you may gain. Yes, there may be some, but what you get through the wheel is very car dependent, not really a matter of power or non-powered steering.

[ramtookrazy]

i didnt really think the feeling of the road helped much. i also didnt know that you get more revolutions without power steering. i havent really gotten the chance to turn that much yet. ill see how that feels. great info btw

[Boostsfed]

i removed the power steering during my swap (just shorcuts)--so it's practically a power-steering rack just without the hydrolic pump working for you. as far as full turning of the steering wheel is the same, just it need extra arm work...i might put back power steering one day--or maybe i'll get better drifting with the manual steering...lol.

[SidewaysGts]

Just get a trucker knob Its a ball on the steering wheel that rotates.. so you can just hold onto it and spin the wheel (buddy of mine says theyre illegal though)

[Boostsfed]

Originally posted by SidewaysGts
Just get a trucker knob Its a ball on the steering wheel that rotates.. so you can just hold onto it and spin the wheel (buddy of mine says theyre illegal though)

hahha, that's funny

[Drift For Food]

Haha, yeah, I've heard the same. I wouldn't know why though. Maybe too many people didn't know how to attach them correctly and they loosed or fell off on them causing an accident. I don't really know. Other than that, there could be issues with injuring yourself from it if the wheel gets a pretty good spin going, bruised hand or jammed finger maybe.

I personally would say don't worry about power steering or not. If you have a choice of either on the same car, then go with what works better for you:
Powered - quicker steering rate, faster changes, easier movement
Unpowered - slower steering rate, some increased effort usually only at slow speeds, more precision from larger travel range

For feel, work on other aspects of the car, suspension stuff. Springs, swaybars, bushings, geometry changes like caster, camber, toe, physical repositioning of arms, etc. These will change both car behavior and feedback. Caster is a big one. Add some caster to increase the tracking force of the wheel. It will want to turn where the car is moving more. It will steer itself into the skid more easily. However, there will be more resistance if you are trying to turn it away from that direction.

Now I just made myself curious if there is some useful geometry info online somewhere, something that explains all this stuff, what it does, and how it affects handling and feel. If anybody can find some sites or have come across some sites in the past, it may be useful. It would be nice to have a sticky of useful technicle sites for suspension tuning, alignment, articles on geometry and such.

[Parry]

Those are called "suicide knobs".

If I remember correctly, they're illegal because you crash, fly forward, hit the knob, and impale yourself on it.

Wicked fun.

[Ris4drift]

werd, why would you want an object sticking out at you that probably will kil you in a frontal impact.

also how the hell would you use the thing? unless your sitting in the backseat your arm doesnt haev enough room to move it, or at least mine wouldnt.

ive personaly drifted with/without power steering. while without it can be done nicely the extra ease of working the wheel offered by power steering is nice. and i highly prefer it.

[R2K]

powersteering rock... i drive my car when its turn off and hell i have to put all my might to just move the car...

[Boostsfed]

Originally posted by Parry
Those are called "suicide knobs".

If I remember correctly, they're illegal because you crash, fly forward, hit the knob, and impale yourself on it.

Wicked fun.

or get b-tch slap by it...lol

[Octagon]

Power steering only results in fewer turns should the manufacturer choose to make it fewer turns. It is not a rule, simply an outcome.

And, quite frankly, it's an outcome common in inexpensive economy cars where the owner is expected to want to put as little effort into driving as possible. True sports cars often times have no power steering as it's a redundant system prone to failure in racing situations. (ever had your power steering fluid boil? trust me, it's not fun)

I do own a car with a no-power rack and pinion setup (1970 MGB GT) and I can safely say that it is less than three turns lock to lock. Thanks to very favorable factory CASTER (oh my god, I've actually brought one of those suspension geometry doohickeys into account) the wheel is very easy to turn so long as the car is in motion, however the car is also notably darty at speed.

In closing, I can agree with Drift For Food that it is the car that determines the drivability, and not whether or not it has a single component. Manual steering and power steering are simply components. How you use the components, and not what they are, determines how well you will do.

[sukimoto]

my 280 doesn't have power steering, and i haven't done much modification, i've dropped about 50 pounds off or so that's all so far, i can get it sideways fine, once you're up to speed, it's not really that hard to turn the wheel, but yeah your arms do get a workout!

[s13saru]

QUiT being pusssies... manual steering works fine... peace

[Pennyman]

No power steering here. I like the workout and the bump-steer and everything that comes with it, hehe.

[blargonator]

yeah my car does not have it either. oh and about those trucker ball things DON'T use them. i bruised the hell out of my hand driving a golf car and the wheel spun around and just took me hand out. i think my wheel only turns 2 and 1/5 lock to lock but i have yet to get the thing running and make it to a parking lot to learn about its turning radius.

[frictionfighter]

both of my cars are lacking it and they friggin turn fantastic. p/s is bogus anyways, dont need it.

[mechaniac]

no power steering in small light cars is ok. For driving and racing, you don't really need it. It's for the poosies. You get better feedback without it.

FOR DRIFTING! though it's a different matter. I once thought about getting rid of the power steering on my 240sx (note: no 240s ever came with manual steering) so I got a chance to drive one without powersteering (Lines, pump, all removed with the rack lines looped) and the sucker is a b1tch to drift. You will break your thumbs if you're not careful. SERIOUSLY.

Taking out your powersteering is different with different cars. Two of my friends drift without powersteering, one drives a 86 corolla coupe, and the other a 71 240z. Their cars use smaller tires and are so much lighter than my car.

[2years180sx]

Well I took out my dad’s car to go drifting a couple weeks ago (1988 Porsche 924S) and I knew that it had no power steering. It has something like "power-assisted steering" which doesn’t even work very well. Well anyway, I come around this turn at about 40 mph and clutch kick and floor it and go sideways. I worked as fast as I could to get the steering turned but I didn’t quite make it in time and the car’s rear wheels caught the dirt (no harm done, luckily).

I didn’t really notice the reason why I focked up until just now. It is REALLY hard to counter-steer quickly in a non-powersteering car. I don’t know if you have ever seen this in a video (an in-car video) or even don eit yourself, but basically the driver drifts around the turn and basically lets the steering wheel go and the front wheels correct themselves. I guess this is because the front wheels want to follow the road and the powersteering is making it easier for the wheel to turn so the front wheels are guided along. Because this is non-existent in a non-powersteering car I think it is a lot harder for a non-powersteering car to do this.

I am not at all saying that manual steering is bad, but it is ALOT easier to DRIFT with powersteering. Maybe its just my dad’s car’s steering, which is VERY good for racing but not so good for turning quickly, but for drifting on quick turns I think powersteering is more beneficial. Correct me if I’m wrong, I haven’t drifted any other car besides my dad’s Porsche and a Hyundai with powersteering ( E-Brakes!! ).

~Adam