FORMULA D Rule Changes...

[_PG_]

F1 has the GPDA (Grand Prix Drivers Association), and most other major series have something similar. For sure Formula Drift drivers should do the same. Make your voices heard in the right way about all issues: Safety, Regs, Judging, etc.

[deadpirate]

see you in vegas blaze. feel free to stop by the toyo rig and say hello!

[MonkeySlide]

I knew this was going to happen sooner or later...

Behold children...we've made autoblog: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/04/d...a-d-rule-book/

[Justin Banner]

Originally Posted by deadpirate

The team started out in japan, takatori and kawamra(the mechanic)have been together as a team for years

Ah, ok. You don't want to ruin a good tech/driver lineup, so that makes much more sense.

[OldSkool510]

Originally Posted by _PG_

F1 has the GPDA (Grand Prix Drivers Association), and most other major series have something similar. For sure Formula Drift drivers should do the same. Make your voices heard in the right way about all issues: Safety, Regs, Judging, etc.

This makes the most sense. All professional entities have unions/associations.

Rather than airing out your grievances on a public forum, you guys who are actually in the industry and have an actual interest in the matter should form a union/association of some sort and approach Formula D with it. It would make sense for them to allow the voices of their drivers and teams to be heard in order to assist in advancing the sport of drifting.

Like it or not, you guys all need each other. FORMULA D FTW.

[PeakPerformance]

This will be my last post in regards to this topic.

Again, I am not on this thread to try and argue that the suspension is illegal, that is not my job. I am not trying to get the Team SA car banned so that there is less competition. I want to see the car run and compete in the series.

I am just saying, IF IF IF, FD deems the suspension to be illegal, then change it or stop running. FD owns the court, if you don't like the rules, then take your ball and go home, which would be unfortunate. Like I said, if you go home, drifting will continue and I doubt people will stop watching drifting.

If you have an issue with the way that FD handled this, then have a meeting with them and bring it up to them. Petition your request, I am sure they will do whatever to make the series better, they are not unreasonable.

AGAIN, I am on this thread to encourage Roo and Victor to not make this a public trial. Winning support on here is not going to make FD all of sudden change their decision, or I doubt it will. Roo I know that you are an American that can clearly understand English, so you must have read the rulebook, if there was something that was not clear, I think you should have discussed it with Randy or FD. For you to say that the setup was allowed in D1 really doesnt mean anything. Also the way you brought this whole problem to drifting.com is not the Japanese way, is it? I think that both sides are going to be hurt and really no one benefits from this public argument.

As a friendly competitor, do what FD asks and lets get back to racing. Blaze thinks that we can't handle the competition and that we have no sympathy for you. Again he is wrong, Bergenholtz and Peak want you to get the car modified so it meets the regulations of FD. If we didn't want to see you run, we would have protested your car.

Lastly, I understand your argument that everyone has modified suspension and that you feel you are being singled out. Like I said, this may be true it may not, I am not going to argue that. I don't know all the details, but currently there is a problem. We can keep pounding our fists in the sand saying this is not fair! It might not be fair in your eyes, but the bottom line is they are saying there is some sort of rules violation. Are we going to get it fixed and race or keep crying about it?

Blaze I understand that you are upset and disappointed that all the FD teams don't rally around Team SA and petition to let the car run. I hate to break this to you, but drifting is a business with lots of dollars. We are not hanging out with homies in the mountains drifting for run. Drifting is big business and there is alot at stake here for everyone. Drifitng is very unique in that most teams are very friendly with each other and help each other out, which is unlike most motorsports. Don't be disappointed in drifting, this is the business part of drifting that doesn't need to be seen in public.

Please stop by the Hankook trailer, I will have some cold drinks and a nice goody bag for you.

See you in Vegas.

[deadpirate]

i want a goody bag...who do i ask for?

if we cant make it to vegas can the goodie bag be mailed?

[PeakPerformance]

Originally Posted by david_kay

if we cant make it to vegas can the goodie bag be mailed?

Goodie bag is for Blaze! Not for everyone on drifting.com

[tyndago]

Originally Posted by courantcom

went to court. The court let the cops go, and the Los Angeles Riots started... The cops went back to court, and were convicted at that time, after the result of a massive public unrest. The big bad police was wrong. Had this particular incident not been brought to the public's attention, Rodney King would have just been thrown out of a moving car in front of his house, and nobody would have ever looked back.

The whole key to what brought justice to Rodney King was that the information that I'm CERTAIN the police wanted to keep quiet was made public by someone who thought that everyone needed to know. Hmmm...kinda like this entire thread, huh.

Publicity. No one wants publicity when they do wrong. Is Formula Drift in the wrong ? Why do they want to keep everything quiet ?

Are they asking Peak and Bergenholtz Racing to come on here as "damage control" ? Spin control ? Both of them have admitted to knowing Formula Drift people well. Bergenholtz Racing even said that "I would assume they are taken into consideration by the powers that be and a difference will be made. Believe me they are listening." Just an assumption ? They both have only ever posted on here in this thread...right ?

I am still just an outsider looking in, and I still do not like what I see. I see favoritism and biased rule enforcement. I see an organization wanting to sweep the decisions they made under the rug.

I am not sure that people here understand that a decision regarding this car was made about a week before this went public. This was not the first avenue that Team SA seeked. When you are treated unfairly, where do you go ?

It seems like most peoples opinions on here is put your head down, take it and move on. Lets just admit, that only works when its done to someone else, and not you. Not me. After all, you can never get a Nissan Skyline GT-R legal for the US either. Not according to what tons of people told me. Why try, the government says you can't, so just move on. I have fought all the government agencies over rules and regulations. Won some, lost some.

So , now what ? In what configuration will the car show up for Vegas ? I was not going to go to Vegas , July in Vegas... 100+ at 3 am, doesn't sound too fun. However I think I might want to show up now.

If I go...I'll be the guy in the I heart coil over Corvettes , and S14 shocked GTO's shirt. Maybe " I'm pre-approved". No one try and turn too Rodney King on anyone.

There is still one big question out there... "If Team SA seeked "pre-approval" on the strut type front suspension , would they have received "pre-approval". Or is that a tree falls in the forest question?

[Tracy]

Originally Posted by _PG_

F1 has the GPDA (Grand Prix Drivers Association), and most other major series have something similar. For sure Formula Drift drivers should do the same. Make your voices heard in the right way about all issues: Safety, Regs, Judging, etc.

Now THAT is a touchy subject, as I have found. Although I agree....not with all of what you have said in here, just this part. I think it's better to have a "discussion" about things like this as an organized group of drivers rather than having a public trial. BUT that being said, when people feel like they have run out of options it's kind of natural for them to make it public as a last resort type of thing (lots of y'all know that I have been there more than once in my career). A drivers organization would be a way better way to handle things like this. Especially with drifting still being in the growing stages.

I hope it all works out amicably and that we all gain something from the situation in the long run. Growing pains hurt That's why they call them pains.

Originally Posted by PeakPerformance

Goodie bag is for Blaze! Not for everyone on drifting.com

what?! i just bought a plane ticket to vegas......

[courantcom]

Originally Posted by tyndago

Publicity. No one wants publicity when they do wrong. Is Formula Drift in the wrong ? Why do they want to keep everything quiet ?

Are they asking Peak and Bergenholtz Racing to come on here as "damage control" ? Spin control ? Both of them have admitted to knowing Formula Drift people well. Bergenholtz Racing even said that "I would assume they are taken into consideration by the powers that be and a difference will be made. Believe me they are listening." Just an assumption ? They both have only ever posted on here in this thread...right ?

I am still just an outsider looking in, and I still do not like what I see. I see favoritism and biased rule enforcement. I see an organization wanting to sweep the decisions they made under the rug.

I am not sure that people here understand that a decision regarding this car was made about a week before this went public. This was not the first avenue that Team SA seeked. When you are treated unfairly, where do you go ?

It seems like most peoples opinions on here is put your head down, take it and move on. Lets just admit, that only works when its done to someone else, and not you. Not me. After all, you can never get a Nissan Skyline GT-R legal for the US either. Not according to what tons of people told me. Why try, the government says you can't, so just move on. I have fought all the government agencies over rules and regulations. Won some, lost some.

So , now what ? In what configuration will the car show up for Vegas ? I was not going to go to Vegas , July in Vegas... 100+ at 3 am, doesn't sound too fun. However I think I might want to show up now.

If I go...I'll be the guy in the I heart coil over Corvettes , and S14 shocked GTO's shirt. Maybe " I'm pre-approved". No one try and turn too Rodney King on anyone.

There is still one big question out there... "If Team SA seeked "pre-approval" on the strut type front suspension , would they have received "pre-approval". Or is that a tree falls in the forest question?

Well, see...that's the thing. What if SA showed up to an event with the suspension back to factory R34, and gained approval for that setup on that day. Could they THEN ask for approval for a modified front suspension setup? Do you think it would be granted, or would it just be shot down because of how all this came about already. I hope everyone can see that all of this will just push more and more towards the realm of being biased.

It wouldn't suprise me one bit if I didn't feel all that welcome by the staff and a few other racers in Las Vegas because of all this. Asking basic questions like if I would need a special parking pass to bring in my own car, or asking for a schedule may result in an unfavorable reaction. People will be people. They always shove back when pushed into a corner. The same can be said with SA Drift.

The unfavortism could easily stretch into other realms...from mistreating the rest of the people I transport for, all the way down to how the cars are judged when they go through the course. At that point, who's going to be the judge? The crowd could easily be in an uproar, but Formula D just wouldn't be able to hear it....or just won't hear it.

Granted that misleading information may have been given to FD staff in the beginning about how some R34's came with strut type suspension, at this point, is the juice worth the squeeze for both parties?

The touchiest of touchy subjects and topics found on this thread are always carefully avoided and a new subject is brought up. I've always thought of it as spin control as all of a sudden, it comes up. New people out of the woodwork sign on, and start posting extremely profound posts. Big names...with big histories. More and more inconsistencies is the only way I can see it. They were never there in the past, and suddenly, here they are now. Maybe it's how message boards work...or maybe it's just how this thread works. Either way, I'm glad they're on here and voiced their thoughts. It helps me get to know them, even though I must try to read their true intentions through a computer screen.

Maybe there are still enough people out there thinking that if all this is just left alone, it will all just magically go away.

I've noticed this thread gain momentum, and lose momentum. I thought about the topic of this thread for a little bit, wondering if it still applies. The first post was leading towards something else, but through the act of discussion, it has taken an entirely new life form -- but still hovers around the same general topic. It's RULE CHANGES. The rules need to be addressed, and should be addressed immediately.

[courantcom]

Originally Posted by deadpirate

The team started out in japan, takatori and kawamra(the mechanic)have been together as a team for years



^^ this seems fair, where is formula D??

I love you man...you know I do.

[courantcom]

Originally Posted by Tracy

Now THAT is a touchy subject, as I have found. Although I agree....not with all of what you have said in here, just this part. I think it's better to have a "discussion" about things like this as an organized group of drivers rather than having a public trial. BUT that being said, when people feel like they have run out of options it's kind of natural for them to make it public as a last resort type of thing (lots of y'all know that I have been there more than once in my career). A drivers organization would be a way better way to handle things like this. Especially with drifting still being in the growing stages.

I hope it all works out amicably and that we all gain something from the situation in the long run. Growing pains hurt That's why they call them pains.

After seeing how people react on this forum, it's hard to say if a driver's union would suceed. The example that was introduced regarding a driver's union was from a racing sanctioning body that has team budgets in excess of $100,000,000. Budgets involving drifring are just a mere fraction of that. If we think we're playing with big money now, well, there are other forms of racing where what a drifter would spend in a year would just pay for enough plane tickets and hotel rooms for the team of the other.

Here's an opportunity right here, and right now for the drivers to come together and approach Formula D with one voice to just allow the SA Drift entry to compete without penalty. If SA Drift was an underdog, I'd say the chances of this happening are good. I'm certain things would happen very quickly if suddenly, no drivers wanted to drive for Las Vegas. Imagine how it would all turn out...all drivers in the paddock...none willing to start their cars and go on the course, until they were made happy. It's a fantasy, perhaps...but also maybe a disaster to others. However, SA Drift's entry is viewed as a threat. It should, however, be viewed as a pioneer as Super Autobacs itself, or Autobacs, have quite honestly been pioneers in their own right. There are big names in this thread -- shop owners that have been in the game since the early 90's.

Don't forget...there is a representative of a "shop" that's been here long before you learned that a car had 4 wheels. Now I know that doesn't really mean much...but I do remember someone saying that we should be kind to our elders.

[sa-drift.com]

Originally Posted by MonkeySlide

I knew this was going to happen sooner or later...

Behold children...we've made autoblog: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/04/d...a-d-rule-book/

The article spells it all out...

there must be a list available to competitors outlining the approved components for all competing vehicles. No such list is available, however. That means teams have no method of verifying that other competitors are following the rules, other than the fact an entry passed Formula D's own tech inspection.

and the whole point...

The rules become particularly unclear when other vehicles are allowed to run with obviously altered suspension setups. 350Zs have altered the mounting points of their rear axles and Chevrolet Corvettes have converted from leaf springs to coilovers. Hopefully, Formula D can learn from this tussle and develop a fair and documented method of approving vehicle,s rather than leaving everyone in the dark.

[Tracy]

Originally Posted by courantcom

After seeing how people react on this forum, it's hard to say if a driver's union would suceed. The example that was introduced regarding a driver's union was from a racing sanctioning body that has team budgets in excess of $100,000,000. Budgets involving drifring are just a mere fraction of that. If we think we're playing with big money now, well, there are other forms of racing where what a drifter would spend in a year would just pay for enough plane tickets and hotel rooms for the team of the other.

Here's an opportunity right here, and right now for the drivers to come together and approach Formula D with one voice to just allow the SA Drift entry to compete without penalty. If SA Drift was an underdog, I'd say the chances of this happening are good. I'm certain things would happen very quickly if suddenly, no drivers wanted to drive for Las Vegas. Imagine how it would all turn out...all drivers in the paddock...none willing to start their cars and go on the course, until they were made happy. It's a fantasy, perhaps...but also maybe a disaster to others. However, SA Drift's entry is viewed as a threat. It should, however, be viewed as a pioneer as Super Autobacs itself, or Autobacs, have quite honestly been pioneers in their own right. There are big names in this thread -- shop owners that have been in the game since the early 90's.

Don't forget...there is a representative of a "shop" that's been here long before you learned that a car had 4 wheels. Now I know that doesn't really mean much...but I do remember someone saying that we should be kind to our elders.

People definitely don't like the word UNION

[carboy]

Is anyone reading what SA Drift said in his earlier post?

"Maybe we should be running a Stagea instead? Same chassis, same engine, same front strut suspension, same rear suspension....wait, that's exactly what we're running now? So if we call it a Stagea is it cool?"

Eddie? Ron B? Jim? Ryan? PG? Bueller? Bueller? anyone? anyone?

I'm sorry for talking *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* but sometimes things like this are so irritating to read. Can anyone answer the above question???? FD??? Are you going to be blatantly arrogant about this and not answer cause you know you can't even do it???? Is this not the most clear, obvious, logical reason why you have a major problem here? Whether or not some teams contact you for a build on a car, you are going to disallow the R34 even though you can't answer the above question...but you will allow a Corvette to run coilover suspension, a Pontiac to run NISSAN suspension, and to top it off a tC that has no business drifting in the first place??? The car is sold as a FF car for crying out loud....
wow that's super OEM.... riiiiiiggght????!!!! Oh but wait it's the same chassis as this car that is sold in Japan...blah blah blah. Picking on the Scion might be beating a dead horse by now but it just goes to show your double standard here...i'm not bringing it up for a legal or not legal issue...just to show how much of a double standard you are enforcing on the SA R34.

*Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*in hell it's July 4th.....back to more BBQ and beer....ta ta

[OldSkool510]

The Scion wasn't picked on as much because it didn't pose a threat to many of the drivers and teams. However, the Skyline has the ability to keep up with the big boys of drifting. What advantage does it actually gain with the set-up? I know rules are rules, but the rules need to be clear with no loopholes in it.

[courantcom]

Originally Posted by OldSkool510

The Scion wasn't picked on as much because it didn't pose a threat to many of the drivers and teams. However, the Skyline has the ability to keep up with the big boys of drifting. What advantage does it actually gain with the set-up? I know rules are rules, but the rules need to be clear with no loopholes in it.

Despite everyting...seriously. Let ALL the questionable cars in the series right now run the way they are no matter what's on it. There may be some fresh cars coming into play at this upcoming Las Vegas event. I think everyting is going to fall between the radical Scion, and a regular Corolla...

The Scion still hasn't been able to properly stretch its legs. Great driver...car put together by all the right people, and from what I've been told...properly funded. I'm sure this car will be something to keep an eye out for.

VTS sheets...disclose everything. Maybe someone out there wants to build a RWD Scion. The VTS sheet should disclose whatever parts they used....even if they are custom parts. Doesn't matter...VTS sheet it, list it all out, and let's all go drift.

Corvette, GTO, Skyline, Scion...all good to me. 350Z's with whatever's under them...doesn't matter. Keep your pimp hand strong fella's.

[stedriftward]

VTS sheets sound like a great way to start the respect this sport deserves!!!!!

[deadpirate]

Originally Posted by PeakPerformance

Goodie bag is for Blaze! Not for everyone on drifting.com

damnit i want a goodie bag!!!!!!!

[OldSkool510]

This thread and its negativity towards FORMULA D is spreading like a wildfire throughout other car forums. So to whoever wanted this to be a public issue - you're doing a hell of a job *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored**ng everyone and yourself over.

Believe it or not, you're not dragging just FORMULA D, the company, through the mud, but, FORMULA D, as a whole. The whole is a whole lot: Company, drivers, teams, sponsors, etc...

When people think of FORMULA D, they think of it as one entity. So when people are talking sh*t about FORMULA D, they're talking about you, too, because you're a part of FORMULA D.

The old adage "don't bite the hand that feeds you" is reality in this case. FORMULA D, the company, is feeding almost the entire professional drifting scene and now a few is going to fu*k it up for everyone. Where else is there to go in the US?

On the other forums, FORMULA D is really taking the heat for alot of *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* right now. Keep in mind that these are on forums of people who actually make drifting a lucrative business for many- the fans. Once you taint their image with corruption and inequality, many of them will spend their $$$$$ elsewhere.

Everyone (the company, drivers and teams) thats asssociated with FORMULA D needs to find a quick and amicable resolution to this issue because this will have an effect on everyone.

[tyndago]

Originally Posted by OldSkool510

This thread and its negativity towards FORMULA D is spreading like a wildfire throughout other car forums. So to whoever

What you can't handle the truth ? The truth about inequality in how the rules are enforced.

This is not a clear cut matter of black and white. There are shades of rear wheel drive Scions, and coil over Corvettes clouding it.

Formula Drift had their chance to handle this behind closed doors. It was a long time before this information went public. They opened up the can of worms, now can they close it ?

[tyndago]

Originally Posted by OldSkool510

The Scion wasn't picked on as much because it didn't pose a threat to many of the drivers and teams. However, the Skyline has the ability to keep up with the big boys of drifting. What advantage does it actually gain with the set-up? I know rules are rules, but the rules need to be clear with no loopholes in it.

The strut setup on the front of the Team SA Skyline is similar to the front strut setup on a S14. The rear subframe and suspension on an S14 is the same as an R34.

Engine modifications/ swaps are legal. Body changes are legal. The Team SA car has no advantage over a properly built S14 with an RB26 swap. If anything it is at a disadvantage because its heavier. Someone said the chassis on the R34 is stiffer, but with a properly built S14 chassis and rollcage, it will be just as stiff.

Who wants to see another S14 running the series ? Who wants to see an R34 Skyline out running the series ?

Where are the problems and inconsistencies ? In the Formula Drift rules.

The car is a threat, the other teams must have been really scared of it.