XTREME DRIFT CIRCUIT, PRO-AM Series

[courantcom]

These guys are gonna need a Hooker. ;-)

[Piner]

I am a bit disapointed that there is no florida event since they listed miami on there site but oh well. Series looks fun, every event is on a real track. No parking lot deals like D1USA or nopi Thats always a good thing.

[courantcom]

The RedBull event was on a vacant lot out in the middle of nowhere. That event was absolutely awesome. FD proved at that event that if you build it, they will come.

[Bebop]

road course>parking lot>oval

IMO anyway

The thing I hate with USA drifting and road courses is that it really seems like they purposely use the slowest parts of them. If your gonna spend all the money renting out the facility you mind as well get your moneys worth.

[courantcom]

Originally Posted by blaze1

road course>parking lot>oval

IMO anyway

The thing I hate with USA drifting and road courses is that it really seems like they purposely use the slowest parts of them. If your gonna spend all the money renting out the facility you mind as well get your moneys worth.

I think road course>oval>parking lot. I like watching the cars tandem on the oval "bank". You can totally get a sensation of how "close" they come to one another. I also like the seating arrangement for oval tracks. Just about every spot in the grandstand is a good seat.

For road courses, most of the built in "seating areas" are placed on the slow parts of the race track so that people can see the cars go around. I don't think drift event organizers look at the track and figure out where's a good spot to drift. I think they first ask where do the people sit, then they go from there.

Parking lot events are a hit and miss. I'm still waiting for the event that has the budget to host one INSIDE a "stadium". Monster truck people can do it...motocross people can do it, one day - drifting people can do it.

[courantcom]

Oh yeah...forgot to say that I like road courses because they always have proper facilities (bathrooms, concessions, etc.). In the paddocks, they have a lot of places to plug into for electricity as well.

[Piner]

I think drifting would be problematic to host in a stadium due to tire smoke lol

[Bebop]

Originally Posted by courantcom

I think road course>oval>parking lot. I like watching the cars tandem on the oval "bank". You can totally get a sensation of how "close" they come to one another. I also like the seating arrangement for oval tracks. Just about every spot in the grandstand is a good seat. .

I agree but IMO the sad thing is as of late tandem drifting in the US has become boring in my eyes. The last time I went to a event and saw some consistent tandem shootouts was at D1 06. Don't get me wrong, I can remember some good FD battles but as of late every potential slobber knocker has ended up with someone getting rear ended or just getting slammed into the wall. My main issue with banks is some chassis are just not suitable for competitive tandem battles on these type of platforms. This IMO is leading to the death of low HP short wheelbase cars being competitive in the series overall. Yes I know guys like Suell, John R, Yoshioka, and Taka can do it... but look what they had to do with their power plants just to have enough torque and speed to half a$$ link irwindale in qualifying.

Originally Posted by courantcom

For road courses, most of the built in "seating areas" are placed on the slow parts of the race track so that people can see the cars go around. I don't think drift event organizers look at the track and figure out where's a good spot to drift. I think they first ask where do the people sit, then they go from there. .

I agree %100, I kinda think FD doesn't want to pay the extra money and time to get some more grandstands in and or a tunnel lol. I think road course configuration should be something crucial on the minds of organizer staff from 2010 on if they want too keep on spending money on these expensive venues. These are some of the reasons I haven't been too Sonoma since 04 lol.

Originally Posted by courantcom

Parking lot events are a hit and miss. I'm still waiting for the event that has the budget to host one INSIDE a "stadium". Monster truck people can do it...motocross people can do it, one day - drifting people can do it.

Location location location, I think D1 made a great find with smooth parking lots of LVMS and English Town. My main thing at this point is K rails, I might be alone when I say this but I'm sick and tired of watching cars get ripped too shreds hitting these things. It really puts a lag on events at times. I think K rails should be a last ditch effort to protect the spectators only. And organizers should really take some time to invest in something that can protect the integrity of the machines as well.

I think stadium drifting would be cool but will the fans be as close enough to the action. And can a company like FD be able to sell out a big stadium like home depot center or the rose bowl. X games is still having trouble with that. I hate seeing empty seats in the crowd, I think that is a bigger waste of money then drifting around a unused chicane at Sonoma and Road Atlanta.

I may come off as a purist, and I might be one. But I want to see the sport involve into more of a action sport. In which the underdog can still win and the spectators would be up close and personal and entertained until the very last second. And maybe most of all give more TV time for the sponsors. I got some realistic ideas to make that happen but I don't think any company in the US anyway would be ready or even willing to take the risk in the sport's infancy. It would mean the whole way the sport is organized, judged, and sold would have to be overhauled.

Tell me this anyone, with the way the sport is right now...do you think it could be broadcasted live? If it was would anyone have the patience to watch it from start to finish?

[Justin Banner]

Live, in it's current form, no. They could do same day coverage just like NHRA events are done.

[B.Young]

When there was live video feed from the internet, we would have a BBQ, racing games, and hang out with old and new friends who want to see drifting action. We all got into the battles and had a great time.
IMO indoor stadium events have been done in Europe and China so its equally possible here. With a well known event organizer I'm sure they can pull it of with minimal problems. One thing is to get the word out in a large scale so more people will show up.
I have been watching D1 Street Legal and it has some great tandem battles.
Does anyone know what the rules are for D1SL?

[Bebop]

Originally Posted by B.Young

When there was live video feed from the internet, we would have a BBQ, racing games, and hang out with old and new friends who want to see drifting action. We all got into the battles and had a great time.

Since when did FD have a live feed with tandem.... I have only seen some grainy live feed for qualifying. What ever station the show is on has all right to the tandem footage as far as I could remember.

Originally Posted by B.Young

IMO indoor stadium events have been done in Europe and China so its equally possible here. With a well known event organizer I'm sure they can pull it of with minimal problems. One thing is to get the word out in a large scale so more people will show up.

Europe had a few and China had some that never went so well. Really crazy stupid crashes. People not getting paid. Chinese drivers fighting lol, so on and so on lmao. And plus most of the crowd is on one side of the stadium and that side isn't even filled.

Originally Posted by B.Young

I have been watching D1 Street Legal and it has some great tandem battles.
Does anyone know what the rules are for D1SL?

Tandem rules or scrutiny. Chassis wise everything is the same but you have to use the original motor or a motor of the same cylinder and make. Fuel system has to be in stock location (no fuel cells). Qualifying for 32 consists of essentially a long practice session with the judges picking drivers who stand out. I personally like it, but not for the USA... I think drivers don't have enough respect for the judges to respect there decisions without a actual score. Tandem is basic D1gp rules, I wouldn't call it pass to win but more of running a tight defensive line different from your qualifying run. If you have room to pass go for it. No "washing out" (running wide line). I use to hate but lately I think it makes comp more fun and gives drivers more of a strategy. I really like the idea of separating qualifying to tandem.

[Justin Banner]

Why doesn't FD encourage passing while in a drift? Safety?

[Slapshotnerd]

Originally Posted by Justin Banner

Why doesn't FD encourage passing while in a drift? Safety?

Because some drivers got over-aggressive trying to pass instead of running the exciting / drifting line. Rather than try and set passing stipulations, it was easier just to ban it across the board. That's been my interpretation.

I think certain tracks are better for passing than others. In Irwindale, I think it's more exciting to have the drivers run the higher line on the inner and outer bank, which means that there's a possible "passing" line available on the low line which is faster to get around... but I don't think it should be ok to pass there.

However, in Sonoma, I think you should be able to pass at the first inside clip (the one at the edge of the teardrop) or during the transition in front of the crowd after that clip. But make all drivers drive the outside line after initiation (IE not Rhys Millen '05).

[Piner]

Blaze has obviously not been to FD atlanta, track setup is awesome btw.

[Bebop]

Originally Posted by Piner

Blaze has obviously not been to FD atlanta, track setup is awesome btw.

Sorry but i have to disagree, with all track available why why after the chicane do they need to back track around going up hill.

lol @ rhys millen 05.. I do think they got a but carried away with that call though.

[conspire]

Originally Posted by blaze1

Sorry but i have to disagree, with all track available why why after the chicane do they need to back track around going up hill.

because you can't see anything past the bridge. so how can the judges accurately judge and as a spectator, who wants to watch only part of a drifting match?

[Slapshotnerd]

Originally Posted by blaze1

Sorry but i have to disagree, with all track available why why after the chicane do they need to back track around going up hill.

I agree with Piner. The Atlanta track is amazing. The elevation change really doesn't show well on TV, and once you've seen some runs at the track in person, you'll change your opinion. That track is the epitome of the perfect fan-oriented drift track

[Cavi Mike]

Originally Posted by Justin Banner

Why doesn't FD encourage passing while in a drift? Safety?

I don't think passing is encouraged in any sanction. I believe the only time it's even acceptable is if someone goes WAY off line or spins out. I don't want to see passing anyways, it's not a race. I want to see the chase driver use his skill to perfectly follow the line of the lead car, no matter how bad or slow it is.

[Bebop]

Originally Posted by Slapshotnerd

I agree with Piner. The Atlanta track is amazing. The elevation change really doesn't show well on TV, and once you've seen some runs at the track in person, you'll change your opinion. That track is the epitome of the perfect fan-oriented drift track

You gotta remember your talking to a guy that's been to D1 @ Fuji Circuit. When D1 goes to these big F1 style tracks they always try to use the fastest driftable part of the course. They make drivers udjust to the excisting course rather then making the course adjust to drifting. I think FD more focuses on the spectator arrangement and what can be more technical. At the end of the day I think I think the technical side must be changed in order to speed up competition a little more and give more of a even playing field to some cars. LOL @ some of you guys are wondering why big V8s are taking over the series lol. Its real easy to get around these technical courses when you got torque at like 4k lol.

I don't think passing is encouraged in any sanction. I believe the only time it's even acceptable is if someone goes WAY off line or spins out. I don't want to see passing anyways, it's not a race. I want to see the chase driver use his skill to perfectly follow the line of the lead car, no matter how bad or slow it is.

Yup, passing is not encouraged in any sanctioning body for drifting. D1 does not want you to go for the pass right off the bat. But in drivers meetings they do want you to adjust your like from qualifying. Running a more tight and defensive line for the lead driver, and of course the chase driver is trying to mimic but they also suggest to take advantage of the other drivers mistake and "drive your heart out". If a driver gets passed in D1, they probably weren't following the direction in the drivers meeting.

All the changes I want too see in US drifting are in favor of making the sport more fair, exciting, and most of all more marketable. The way its going now in a few years its going to be a proverbial one make series lol. Tanner Foust will win the series in 2010!

[AlexPfeiffer]

God another topic about passing. I was the one who pushed to not allow passing in FD. If you dont understand why, then just talk to me.

[boxmod]

I just had a debate with a friend over V8 vs 'traditional' 4cyl/6cyl turbos in a drift car.

I told him there isn't really any reason to mod a 4cyl to the teeth to have it equal the performance of a V8 at medium/modest mod level. You cant be competitive on the high speed (high trq required) sections of courses, plain and simple.

I love technical over high speed, and D1 has a share of slower technical and then other high speed courses. We seem obsessed with speed here so much that its all 90mph+ entry with 2-3 clips after that.

Atlanta is a great venue because its got such a tight technical line to be on, and there is not as much of an advantage to major powered cars EXCEPT on the downhill/acceleration portion.

Either way, its all about fun for me and most drivers. The thrill is doing something that is crazy and nearly impossible with a car. i'd rather drive a new track every weekend that 7 high speed ones once a year. its all about variety for me.

[courantcom]

Originally Posted by blaze1

My main thing at this point is K rails, I might be alone when I say this but I'm sick and tired of watching cars get ripped too shreds hitting these things. It really puts a lag on events at times. I think K rails should be a last ditch effort to protect the spectators only. And organizers should really take some time to invest in something that can protect the integrity of the machines as well.

I don't know about you, but I love K-Rails...and concrete walls, trees, obstacles, etc. ;-)

[Bebop]

Originally Posted by boxmod

I just had a debate with a friend over V8 vs 'traditional' 4cyl/6cyl turbos in a drift car.

I told him there isn't really any reason to mod a 4cyl to the teeth to have it equal the performance of a V8 at medium/modest mod level. You cant be competitive on the high speed (high trq required) sections of courses, plain and simple.

I actually think V8s have the advantage on slower parts of a course compared to a 4 cylinder turbo. A nicely built SR20 and a mildly built LS1 both have a max torque of about 380. But a Ls1 can use it at such a low RPM. Its nice to be able to slow down and get back on the gas with vengeance without a whole bunch of rev matching.

Originally Posted by boxmod

I love technical over high speed, and D1 has a share of slower technical and then other high speed courses. We seem obsessed with speed here so much that its all 90mph+ entry with 2-3 clips after that.

Ha, the only technical course still existing in D1 is ebisu... and that course only has like 2 or 3 critical judging zone. But D1 got smart... your don't like the new Pro D1 series? You miss the old D1 tracks and grassroot style? Here you go world, D1 Street Legal... best of all you can compete in it too!!!

Look at D1s format.... they haven't been in the states in full form in 3 years, they have been totally out of europe, austraulia, nz, malaysia. But they still have the most exposure of their talent in the world. People still go out and buy option DVDs. And people are still watching them on the Internet (they need to figure out a way to start charging people).... and its entertaining. They found a format that halfway works and for some reason people fail to duplicate.

When D1 finally goes on TV live or pre recorded its just going to be a convenience for the fans. The foundation will already be there.

Atlanta is a great venue because its got such a tight technical line to be on, and there is not as much of an advantage to major powered cars EXCEPT on the downhill/acceleration portion.

LOL I drink to that... anyone remember Taka vs Sam back in 05 or 06. Taka in his NA corolla chasing Sam's butt all over the place... Took like 3 OMTs for taka to finally give up! Granted that was a long time ago and the sport was judged alot differently.... if only some of the judges back then did not make such stupid mistakes.

Either way, its all about fun for me and most drivers. The thrill is doing something that is crazy and nearly impossible with a car. I'd rather drive a new track every weekend that 7 high speed ones once a year. its all about variety for me.

Its all love and fun until money gets involved. IMAO, there's way too many drivers/team owners who don't care about the sport. They are happy because they are getting money now and will only make a suggestion to better their teams chances of wining. Like I said before in a previous thread, a good majority of fans who were here 4 or 5 years ago are not around anymore. And its not because they don't like drifting, they just got bored of FD and or miss D1.

The fan base in my eyes right now is temporary. Alot of Families, alot of really young kids. Alot of experimenters, fans of open wheel/nascar/road racing who just want to see what the hype is about (they are some of the more vocal). The company has to figure out a way to keep them coming back year after year. Give them some sort of real foundation to grasp on that keeps them coming back.... its just not there and doesn't seem to be coming.

One of these years ticket sales are going to drop, and key sponsors will start backing out (red bull is already gone), and the sport in the states will need to evolve. And I just hope they will be ready when this happens. It could be this year, it could be 5 years from now but its going to happen.

One of the things that irked me alot last year was the top 32 tandem. At first its like cool, now everyone can go head to head. But at the same time I had to admit that this would be really boring on TV....and we are only now half way through!!! That in my eyes in not progression.

The only reason why I'm posting this here right now is because I know the guys at XDC are reading and I just hope they are getting some hints. And if they capitalize on what the other series is doing wrong, they can have a real good thing going for them selves and the sport overall. There is nothing wrong with being the guinea pig series.

[Bebop]

Originally Posted by courantcom

I don't know about you, but I love K-Rails...and concrete walls, trees, obstacles, etc. ;-)

I'm a personaly fan of jumps my self... I just dont like things that leave me in the hot sun for 10 mins to an hour (unless you are there) with no action.

[Justin Banner]

Originally Posted by blaze1

I'm a personaly fan of jumps my self...

Speaking of, does the Pro-Am course at Phoenix still have the hump? Guys were getting air there at one time.