(FEEDBACK) FORMULA D Florida 2011

[Hach1r0k1d03]

i think we need a series where it isnt about who gets to the finish line first. it should be about speed, line, angle and overall excitement.

oh and it should be the lead cars job to give the best run they can with some crazy angle while the chase car mirrors that.

it would be like the first drift series in the US. im just sayin...

[my 1 88 u]

I say get rid of outside clips and let the following car push for the pass. You know what you get when two cars are battling for the apex? Close tandems.

[Bebop]

Flood Gates: They Have Just Been Opened

[my 1 88 u]

I always thought the point of speed in drifting is to carry and longer, big angle slide. Why would it matter if a car moves through the course faster? Elements such as throttle control, aggressive transitions and crazy angle are ignored when the lighter v8 in front pulls ahead with 45 degrees of angle

[my 1 88 u]

According to Formula D
small angle + fast pace + lots of smoke >>>> early entry + high angle + aggressive transitions.

[Hach1r0k1d03]

its pretty crappy how our opinion doesnt really matter. i mean jarod said it himself when speaking about the biased judging. he said something along the lines of: formula d is here to stay whether you like it or not. they just got lucky that they are the first organized pro drifting series in the US so they can do pretty much whatever they want. plus the people on the forums make up such a small percentage of the people that spectate at the events anyways.

no matter what we say, there will always be thousands of new fans at the events willing to give it a try for one event. you guys ever notice that when jarod asks by a show of hands, how many people are first timers at the event and its the majority of the crowd raising their hands? so what does that mean? people watch one event and get disappointed to never come back again maybe? i guess its a good formula but just not a great one, no pun intended.

[NismoP10]

Agreed. I'd like to see more emphasis on angle, line, and style rather than outright speed. High speeds with less angle is not as exciting to watch. Would like to see more runs like Matt Powers' and Conrad Grunewald's.

[Bebop]

I would like to see a high speed fast dog fight while sideways... I like angle and what not in qualifying but big angle and wide lines = slow speeds. What I'm think I'm watching right now is FD style judging on a D1 style course (or shall I saw traditional) but with clipping points catered to long wheel base torqued up machines. I'm up in the air on this subject, but I know it ain't right.

BTW...is there a pace cone out there? Don't look like it.

[my 1 88 u]

Originally Posted by Bebop

I would like to see a high speed fast dog fight while sideways... I like angle and what not in qualifying but big angle and wide lines = slow speeds. What I'm think I'm watching right now is FD style judging on a D1 style course (or shall I saw traditional) but with clipping points catered to long wheel base torqued up machines. I'm up in the air on this subject, but I know it ain't right.

BTW...is there a pace cone out there? Don't look like it.

Dogfights happen when the lead protects his line. That doesn't need to happen under FD rules.

FD is just confusing. If they want exaggerated, qualifying lines in tandem then why punish those that throw out big high risk angles and reward safe but fast runs?

Why do they need artificial clips located away from the apex and mandatory outside clips on a road course?

There is a problem when Daijiro Yoshihara a Formula D Asia judge couldn't offer Jarod any explanations for the judges decisions other that parroting what they already said. They have no criteria.

And Jarod was just bad tonight. hanging sentences, awful interviews, bad jokes and all.

[Bebop]

Originally Posted by my 1 88 u

Dogfights happen when the lead protects his line. That doesn't need to happen under FD rules.

FD is just confusing. If they want exaggerated, qualifying lines in tandem then why punish those that throw out big high risk angles and reward safe but fast runs?

Why do they need artificial clips located away from the apex and mandatory outside clips on a road course?

There is a problem when Daijiro Yoshihara a Formula D Asia judge couldn't offer Jarod any explanations for the judges decisions other that parroting what they already said. They have no criteria.

And Jarod was just bad tonight. hanging sentences, awful interviews, bad jokes and all.

Your hitting it on the head man!

I noticed a couple of times a certain judge shaking his head in what seemed like frustration after the judges went against his ruling. I agreed with most of this judges calls. I'm not quite sure if everyone is on the same page over there.... or if they ever were in the first place.

I think it was same ole same ole J-Rod tonight

[ztkrevolution]

Yeah last night at round 3 Eric O'Sullivan and i had a conversation about this. He said he doesnt like how in formula drift it emphasis is about speed be cause it takes away from the actual impact of style when drifting. He said that he was tired of the mechanics now having to build the cars to just go fast and said "we arent here to race,we are here to drift. I dont want a fast car, i want a comfortable car" he brought up a good point and said he would love to see an event where everyone in formula d has to drive a 200 hp car and see who the real drivers are when it comes to car control. I say it at every event i goto, formula d is fun, but its nothing as crazy as watching d1. and its simply because you dont get that crazy angle and extreamly close tandems to the point where they drivers are just love tapping the whole course. and last night proved that the judges dont care about angle because Charles Ng and T McQ, well just look for your self http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=1&theater Ng lost and we all booed and tony said it was because tyler had a better chase run and i can only say its because it was faster but his angle sucked and he had a correction. the judging is very biased to me especially when a rookie totally rear entry drifted in initiation and tony said he deducted points cause he didnt like how he slowed down. how you gonna speed up in a rear entry!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! http://www.facebook.com/video/video....9410462&type=1 heres the vid hope it works

[ztkrevolution]

Originally Posted by my 1 88 u

I say get rid of outside clips and let the following car push for the pass. You know what you get when two cars are battling for the apex? Close tandems.

and i completely agree !!!!! i dont like how Jarod always says "oh he was riding shotgun!" when the cars are like 8 feet apart

[Slapshotnerd]

Man.... I didn't understand a lot of things about this event. The 2nd clipping point seemed to be way too early in the curve, which made a very unnatural line to link the first 2 clips, which meant tandem wasn't door-to-door until almost at the end of the course because the first half of the course was so unnatural.

I used to give the judges a lot of credit, but after watching the rounds last night on the live stream, I feel like they have a certain 'strategy' to judging which rewards the high torque V8 cars, thus the cluster of V8's at the top. In D1, if a 200hp car could drive equally to a 700hp car, the 200hp car would get the win because the power difference is taken into account. FD has lost this 'compensation for the car' factor, and now a 200hp car has to be 110% better than the 700hp car in order to make an effect on the judges, which is substantially harder than being 98% as good.

I think a lot of drivers are getting very very discouraged, and losing interest in competing at the top level. Combine that with the lack of TV coverage last year for drivers who didn't make top 8, and it's becoming very hard for the drivers between 5 and 20 in the season points rankings to acquire and keep sponsorships.

We have yet to see the quality of the 2011 TV show, but I'd be curious to see if any major changes were made from the 2010 format.

At this rate, I think we may see some major changes in the field in the coming years, and not for the better.

[ASD Team]

From the outside looking in, I can totally understand how some of you feel this way and some of your points. But, I feel obligated to stick up for FD a bit here.

There is a very specific judging criteria. However, two problems arise that I think cause some of the concerns being voiced here:

1. The judging criteria does change from track to track and event to event. Mostly due to course layout, but it does change and it changed again in Florida due to the line the judges wanted to see.

2. The judging criteria for each event is only heard in the drivers meetings, and isn't available to the fans. I think that causes the biggest amount of confusion with the fans.

I've found, as have other teams, that one of the most important parts of the FD weekend is listening very carefully and understanding exactly what the judges want to see at that particular event. Doing so will of course increase your odds of setting the car up correctly for that track, and having the driver be able do what the judges want.

But to be fair, unless the fans recieve the same information the teams recieve about judging criteria for each individual event, there is bound to be confusion among the fans. In my opinion it would benefit FD to make the judging criteria for each event more widely known for the fans.

As for the speed issue, the way I understand the FD judges view is this: If the chase car can't keep up and put pressure on the lead car, there is no tandem battle. Speed is a judged element, hence today's super fast FD cars. You do have to be fast enough too, with minimal compromise on angle. The level of angle or speed compromise is up to the judges when they judge the runs. Hence D-Mac's OMT against Conrad, he didn't have close to Conrad's angle at the initiation. A fair call I believed with the judging criteria in Florida, and they went OMT.

Not saying I'm right, its just how I understand it. This is FD's game, we're just the players and the fans

[Kieran]

Originally Posted by ASD Team

As for the speed issue, the way I understand the FD judges view is this: If the chase car can't keep up and put pressure on the lead car, there is no tandem battle. Speed is a judged element, hence today's super fast FD cars. You do have to be fast enough too, with minimal compromise on angle. The level of angle or speed compromise is up to the judges when they judge the runs. Hence D-Mac's OMT against Conrad, he didn't have close to Conrad's angle at the initiation. A fair call I believed with the judging criteria in Florida, and they went OMT.

Not saying I'm right, its just how I understand it. This is FD's game, we're just the players and the fans

all the other bits i understand but this bit above mystifies me.

if there is no compensation for vehicle differences then you might as well run stock cars.

one of the main points that differantiate drifting from other motorport is that there is a compensation for a slower car.

in the uk we run a pace cone and to the pace cone the slowest car sets the pace but must go full throttle, the faster car matches the pace, once at the cone it's eveerman for themselves but at the first clip the gap between the two cars is monitored from this point throughout the course and scored accordingly. does that make sense?

[ztkrevolution]

to me that makes sense and i remember when i used to say the best thing about drifting is that a little corolla can beat a viper. and this was my analogy because it showed that its not about the faster car, its about the style. but in FD lets put Aono against Sam, psh! yeah right lol and i know people are gonna say oh hed beat dean1 but cmon deans a rook lol not that great. and when you see interviews about why the winner one a match, they usually say "i had the faster car" to me this sport is about car control, and i feel extreme angle at yet a slower speed shows much more control than high speed low angle. and as a spectator thats not always fun to watch. i personally love the way slow drifting looks, looks like slow motion figure skating hahahaha

[my 1 88 u]

All due respect ASD, you guys have the formula to produce fast pace drift cars and have great drivers behind the wheel buts it has been years since I've seen any of your guys do anything exciting besides being super consistent.

I challenge JTP to sacrifice a little bit of his speed to tap a lead driver with his rear bumper.

[ztkrevolution]

Originally Posted by my 1 88 u

All due respect ASD, you guys have the formula to produce fast pace drift cars and have great drivers behind the wheel buts it has been years since I've seen any of your guys do anything exciting besides being super consistent.

I challenge JTP to sacrifice a little bit of his speed to tap a lead driver with his rear bumper.

and this is the stuff i feel judges should be looking for

[Kieran]

Originally Posted by ztkrevolution

and this is the stuff i feel judges should be looking for

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-vX8-TWBUE&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNOzNX466A8

[sytfu]

haha, this threads is getting LOL'able responses.

Formula D is not D1.... it's american, and you know how americans like stuff, Big Loud Fast, and obnoxious. if you want finese, start another series... formula d is progressing in another direction from what you are looking for.

[ztkrevolution]

very good point, we silly americans lol

[Kieran]

Originally Posted by sytfu

haha, this threads is getting LOL'able responses.

Formula D is not D1.... it's american, and you know how americans like stuff, Big Loud Fast, and obnoxious. if you want finese, start another series... formula d is progressing in another direction from what you are looking for.

i'm not an american

[sytfu]

i never said you were.... but guess what i did say....

FORMULA D IS A
American series.

[my 1 88 u]

Originally Posted by sytfu

haha, this threads is getting LOL'able responses.

Formula D is not D1.... it's american, and you know how americans like stuff, Big Loud Fast, and obnoxious. if you want finese, start another series... formula d is progressing in another direction from what you are looking for.

Yeah it's going in the direction of who can go the fastest while maintaining a 45 degree angle. Formula Drift Race 2000.

[Bebop]

Formula HS (Hook Slide)