KAZU vs CASPER (VIDEO) Formula D Sonoma

[EverythingDrift]

This video was sent to us by a friend.

I think the call was right. Kazu cuts off Casper, forcing him to sloe down drastically and stall out. It's up to Kazu to mirror casper's line, not interfere. That's what the judges decided.

But post up your thoughts

[ohtagerbilhero]

there was an outside clipping point that Kazu missed each time. you can't see it at that angle, but the clipping point was marked by cones and rockstar banners...

passing is allowed ONLY AT the clipping point if the leader misses the clipping point by a wide enough margin... but if you MISS the clipping point just to pass, that's a violation of the rules.

while spectators probably didn't know about this change in the rules, it's covered in the driver's meeting before every event, and every driver knows this.

....so yeah. go casper.

[HoosierDrifter]

thats the kind of rules that i like to hear about. rules to force wide lines... that way cars arent always initiating drifts late and block the inside line. outside clipping points are genius imo.

[markshatchi86]

congrats to casper on a well deserved podium finish.

[my 1 88 u]

Kazu made a clean pass D1 style but rules are rules and if Formula D judges set a certaint criteria than sobeit.

[HoosierDrifter]

Originally Posted by my 1 88 u

Kazu made a clean pass

would you rather drifters take very narrow lines and late entries all the time to block the follower?

[my 1 88 u]

Originally Posted by HoosierDrifter

would you rather drifters take very narrow lines and late entries all the time to block the follower?

I added to my post but to answer you question it isn't a problem in D1 so why try to fix it in FD. Maybe the level of skill is not at D1 level quite yet so it is necessary for FD drivers to follow the same exact line to improve the quality of competition. But once it is more evenly matched I'd like to see more overtaking and door closing lines.

[fsr]

Well, if there was an outside clipping point, and the rules say that you have to hit it, then I can understand the result. However, since when did drivers need cones and judges to tell them which line to take?

Imagine if they did the same in F1 or Nascar. That would be funny as hell. "I'm sorry Schumi. You were fastest in qualifying, but you didn't get close enough to the cone...". Come on guys...

[Slapshotnerd]

Originally Posted by fsr

Well, if there was an outside clipping point, and the rules say that you have to hit it, then I can understand the result. However, since when did drivers need cones and judges to tell them which line to take?

Imagine if they did the same in F1 or Nascar. That would be funny as hell. "I'm sorry Schumi. You were fastest in qualifying, but you didn't get close enough to the cone...". Come on guys...

Drivers are TOLD what line to take in drifting. That doesn't happen in any other motorsport.

[my 1 88 u]

Originally Posted by Slapshotnerd

Drivers are TOLD what line to take in drifting. That doesn't happen in any other motorsport.

well in D1GP and other drifting series 'line' is not judged in tsuisou, its speed, angle, agressiveness, style and excitment. Different lines in tandem runs make drifting exciting. If you watch Autopolis D1 rounds during qualifying they have to clip the outside of the sweeper in front of the judges stands but tandems they take aggressive and protective lines and it doesn't detract from the competition.

What I'd like to see happen at Sonoma is a lead driver take a shallow double apex line and get passed on the outside, that would be awsome.

[Rob Fleming]

That call made was correct, there is zero room for argument on it.

That area is not a pass zone, period. Our line is to come out to the wall (where the camera) was, and then go back to the next clip point (the rockstar gimmik).

We are NOT supposed to be passing anymore unless someone makes a mistake (swings to wide in an area they arent supposed to). Casper's line was spot on, and kazu tried to pass him.

[fsr]

Originally Posted by Rob Fleming

That call made was correct, there is zero room for argument on it.

That area is not a pass zone, period. Our line is to come out to the wall (where the camera) was, and then go back to the next clip point (the rockstar gimmik).

We are NOT supposed to be passing anymore unless someone makes a mistake (swings to wide in an area they arent supposed to). Casper's line was spot on, and kazu tried to pass him.

If there was zero room for an argument, there wouldn't be one...

I think everyone agrees that the rules were broken and the judging correct. However, this rule is exclusive to Formula D, and from a drivers point of view it's the stupidest rule I've ever heard of. Forcing a line in tsuiso battles is just plain silly. Why not just run a f**king pacecar then? Then the drivers could just follow his line and speed...

[nasty nate 7]

drifting becomes gayer everytime i see this crap... i used to like drifting.... now its just simply bs and the rules are so stupid, hitting a clipping point matters but passing doesnt??? imo, i think passing someone is a lot harder than hitting a stupid clipping point...

[Mike Peters]

Originally Posted by fsr

If there was zero room for an argument, there wouldn't be one...

i beg to differ. this is 2006, jelousy, stupidity, and ignorance is strong nowadays.

the call was right, but stupid people will always argue what they dont like no matter how cut and dry it is.

i do think though the jdm guys need to be sat down and have everythign explained again. i did some dumbass stuff that weekend but okubo's donuts during intro, kazu's pass, and all the other stuff i dont think they listened to anything or were able to about safety.

but it was a good call, and i like the no passing rule. makes you get rewarded for sticking to the guy and mimcking him 100% which imo is how drifting should be, none of this force pass jump over rumble strip crap and weiner protective inside line crap we had last year and in 04.

[Rob Fleming]

D1 is about following line

FD last year was *Censored**Censored**Censored* protecting of line, everyone passing

its better now.

[fsr]

Yeah, I can understand why you have to change the rules a bit to prevent tsuiso battles from being a race, but maybe educating the drivers a little on how it should be done would be a better solution than forced lines? The main reason why there was so much focus on overtaking in FD the first years was because the drivers were new to the sport and some of the most skilled ones even had a racing background. They're used to overtaking to win...

What I'm saying is that you might want to look at a compromise. An overtaking manouver shouldn't be reason to DQ, but neither should it be a sure win. This one was very nice and clean though...

[Mike Peters]

why do you neeeeed to pass? look at our judges, we have alex pfieieieieieieifer ( i always screw that up) and andy yen, 2 former formula d/ d1 / drift racing drivers who can see exactly whats going on, and ken takahashi has been hanging out with them and our previous judges for how long now? they know what the smoke, front tires, noises, car bobbles all mean, and i honestly like the no pass rule. the only real way to one up your competitior from behind is stick to him like glue. you can force a pass anywhere almost, and once you pass more than likely the guy isnt gonna stick to you, but if you cant pass, your only option is to stick like glue, which makes a badass show imo, and is fun as hell for the drivers. its much harder to stick to some people in this sport when you could simply pass, which is why i like the no pass rule.

.02

[Hubert Young]

Originally Posted by Mike Peters

... you can force a pass anywhere almost, and once you pass more than likely the guy isnt gonna stick to you, but if you cant pass, your only option is to stick like glue, which makes a badass show imo, and is fun as hell for the drivers. its much harder to stick to some people in this sport when you could simply pass, which is why i like the no pass rule. .02

This is the first time I agree with Mike 110%. Mike is right on the money! It's much harder to stick to someone than just pass.

For drifting, it's not the fastest way around a corner and if the chase car wants to pass, he can pass very easily by simply going into the corner with less angle and a tighter line.

To ensure the integrity and the objective of sport, which is a show for the fans, it's important to have rules in place to discourage chicken shxt driving, that is, not giving 100%. I like how Alex says on another thread that he would take points off the lead car if he does not go at least 90% of his qualifying runs. Right on! Keep that going! The guy in front should be judged just like his qualifying runs. There is no reason why the lead guy should not go 100% provided the "no passing rule" is strictly enforced. The only time a pass is allowed is the lead car is completely out of line and miss the clipping point or spin out.

So I propose:
1) "no passing rule" - chase car loss that run if a pass occurs.
2) lead car judged at 90% of qualifying runs - points taken off if lead car does not go 90% of his qualifying runs.
3) Spin - car that spins loss that run and if the other car does not spin in the next run of the pair and keep a decent drift, the other car wins that round automatically.

[HoosierDrifter]

sticking like glue > overtaking

[Mr.Two]

Honestly the biggest problem I see with this "no passing" rule is they are removing the option of multiple lines and pretty much forcing everyone to run the same line every time, how boring is that. Personally I like variety, I like to see two people with two different styles run two different lines, let it be one inside and one outside or whatever, I like to see how they adapt to the situation and see who comes out on top, I also like to see someone stick on em like *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*ing duct tape. I DO however hate this *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* *Censored**Censored**Censored* attempted inside line passing *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* on every run, or the dropping of angle to catch up and lock on stuff. Its lame so something does need to be done.

In all there needs to be a compromise, why not narrow the possible lines down instead of cutting all but one out. Why not make a set of rules at the beginning of a series and stick with them instead of changing them at every event, just make some rules and stick to em fellas if they don't work change em next year.

Oh well I'm sure it will all work out sometime.

[Mr.Two]

Originally Posted by HoosierDrifter

sticking like glue > overtaking

Agreed

[my 1 88 u]

shallow line overtaking with angle > sticking like glue with shallow angle

[5150 Drifter]

Being my first post let me start off by saying great site you guys have! Lots of great discusion going on, and great feed back from the drivers!

I really hate this new "rule" as there calling it. I really felt that Kazu was jipped . I understand that the object is not to pass, but i felt the old "rule" was much better. "Drifting is not allowed unless you can do it in drift while still holing your line/speed/angle." Thats one of the aspects that makes the sport as exciting as it is. Kazu ran a good line and even had more angle than Casper. Like MR Two said, it getts preety boring watching the same line being driven over and over. I know that shows consistancy on the drivers, but the diverse driving of each driver makes the sport as well.
The biggest thing is that rules are being changed at each event. One event somone gets passed, and is automaticly given a zero. The next even a "one more time" is called. It makes it very difficult for those just getting into the sport to understand how it works.

[Driftin180sx]

Well im my oppinion i think that Casper should have held his line and clipped the first corner closer but he didnt which left him open for a pass and Kazu carried more speed and a closer clipping point. This is still considered a Race so that means to not get passed you need to protect your position with your line. Well that just my take on it.

[jriftking]

man u know what formula d is doing is dumbing down the sport. it makes it boring. if they want the sport of drifting to continue to grow they shouldnt take away its rawness and leave the judging of the qualifying runs as just that. i think it is up to the lead car to protect the passing line while maintaining max angle and speed and if he does that there will be no passing. i also think that it is up to the chase driver to adjust to the lines of the lead car so that they can set them up to get to the inside or even a pass, while maintaining good angle and speed. who ever does this the best should win. if the follwoing car just mirrored the lead car perfectly then it would just be a tie every time. there has to be a way a driver can get an advantage by manuvering their car to a better position on the track.