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Braking Drift how-to (and why it works)

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Old 07-21-2004, 08:34 AM   #1
mranlet
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Braking Drift how-to (and why it works)

For a braking drift you're essentially keeping the front tires on the hairy edge of their traction limit and making the rears exceed theirs. The braking drift can be a very fast way to slide out a car that has initial oversteer on turn-in and understeer on sustained cornering. Setting up a car this way is easily done by reducing the effect of the frontal sway bar and lowering the dampening effect of the front shocks.

The technique is rather simple - you don't brake and turn at the same time, but rather brake hard, release, and while the weight is still at the front of the car you give steering input. Because of the physics of tire load and the characteristics of rubber, a tire is capable of doing more work when it is under a vertical load than if there is no load. This can be illustrated by trying to push a rubber eraser across a table. When the eraser has only its own weight as vertical load, it is quite easy to push around. However, if you were to push down on it with a finger and try to move it across the table it “pushes back” with a lot more force. This phenomenon would suggest that you can make a car handle better just by adding more weight, but this couldn’t be farther from the truth… When a car goes around a turn, the tire is asked to support the vertical load but also to support a lateral load as well. The relationship between added weight and a tire’s added lateral work capability is less than 1:1 – by adding more weight you are asking the tire to support more turning force than you are benefiting it. If it were possible to increase vertical load without increasing the lateral load, then it would be possible to reap the benefits of a tire’s increased capability to perform lateral work without having more weight to do lateral work for. This principle is the basis for how downforce increases grip - increasing the vertical load without increasing weight (lateral load) results in an increase in tire the traction capabilities (“lateral work”, often represented in the Traction Circle).

At the front:
Under braking, the vertical load on the front tires has increased, making it possible for the rubber to do more work, but the amount of weight that they are asked to redirect has not changed because the car still weighs the same. The work being done by the tire will be at the edge of the traction circle under heavy braking as it is, so if you kept braking and gave steering input you'd make the tire's load exceed the available traction. However, if you quickly release the braking force and quickly give steering input you might be able to utilize the temporarily enlarged traction circle (thanks to increased vertical load and therefore increased capacity for work) before the re-balancing of the weight causes the circle to return to normal size.

In short - if you try to brake and steer at the same time, the car will understeer due to frontal washout. If you brake and steer in quick succession, you will have increased load capacity and the car will turn in hard.

To the rear:
Now, with a lower vertical load (due to weight transfer forward) and the same lateral load on the rear tires the traction circle has, in effect, gotten smaller. It won't take much at this point to let the break traction back here. If the car is setup to do so, the rear may even break away on its own since you will still have a bit of braking force being asked of the tire in it's small traction circle (especially if there is excessive negative camber resulting in less contact patch before body roll takes effect). If the tires don't break away this easily you are then left with the options of E-brake, power-over, throttle-off, shift-lock or clutch kick to generate a higher load than the work is capable of doing.

Each technique will operate differently to move the work required of the tires to outside the boundaries of the temporarily smaller traction circle. E-brake, throttle-off, and shift-lock will serve to break traction by slowing the tire down while the power-over and clutch kick speed the rear wheels up (depending on how the kick is executed). Your best bet is to use a declarative method rather than an accelerative method, since by virtue of being a “Braking” drift (braking is the key word here, in case you can’t tell) the rears are being slowed already. At this point there should be a lateral load on both the front and rear tires (car is now post-turn in) with the fronts gripping and the rears sliding slightly. If you are too quick to apply power in the braking drift, you may cause the tire’s location on the traction circle to move the across the vertical axis and back into the center of the circle where it may grip again (also accelerating before the car is sideways will transfer more vertical load to the rear and give the rear tires more traction, causing understeer). You have to make sure that the car is effectively sideways before applying more power. When the rear tires have broken traction, the car is in the early stages of a braking drift.

From here, the line through the turn that the front wheels will take needs to be smaller in radius than that of the rear wheels, essentially meaning that the rear will have to be traveling slightly faster than the front. Controlling the angle of attack will be a matter of simply putting on the power and modulating the throttle so that the rear line is faster, but not so fast that it incites a spin. Power application should be done quickly but smoothly – too big of a sudden jolt of power and the tires will completely loose all grip and the car will spin, too slow and the rear may regain grip and you’ll loose the drift. The faster the rear goes the larger angle, and the slower they go the shallower the angle. The ability to control the front and rear end speeds is one aspect that gives a RWD-only car an advantage over a FWD (where the rears can only be slowed) and many AWDs (where the average driver cannot control the front and rear axles separately without special modifications).

I hope this helps clear things up - if not, you may want to consult a book like "going faster" or "high performance handling handbook".

-MR
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Old 08-01-2004, 01:34 AM   #2
nissanguy_24
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Good thread man. May i add practicing this technique works well at high speeds, but you need alot of room to try it. So find a safe area like a track before attempting...
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Old 08-01-2004, 05:00 PM   #3
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Ehhh just learn it in the canyons
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Old 08-05-2004, 11:13 PM   #4
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brake drift, its the only way i drift. Why? because i dont have a hand brake in my truck like a 240 or 86 does.
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Old 08-05-2004, 11:46 PM   #5
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Yep, my first two cars, a fwd and then a rwd, both didn't have hand parking brakes. Braking drift became very important and a staple of drift initiation...well that and faint. Even with my car now that does have a hand brake, I still stay with braking and feint for the most part. You have a lot of control and the transition into a drift is smooth. E-brake tends to be more abrupt, but it's good for tight corners where feint and braking is tough to do.

I like the little "article" lol.

I somewhat disagree on a tiny part though, well agree totally but add one thing. You can both brake and turn at the same time and still initiate a braking drift. The only problem is that the car needs to be set up more towards a neutral state to allow it with ease.
Basically, you can turn hard into a corner near your turning limits and then start to apply light braking. You will move a little weight forward increasing front traction and decreasing rear traction. If enough weight moved forward, you will begin to slide.
In a relatively neutral car, this is pretty easy to do since very little weight needs to be transfered to create oversteer. However, in a stock production car with lots of understeer built in, it may take far heavier braking.
If too much braking is needed to move enough weight to create oversteer, you run the risk of breaking the traction of the front tires and understeering like you said.
I'm just saying that you CAN both steer and brake, but you need to be careful with how much of each you do. The tires only have so much traction to work with.

Still, I do agree, you should brake before the turn in to both transfer weight forward and still have full grip available to actually steer the car. A combination of each may work as well. You may tweak the car's behavior by first initiating a large weight transfer by a quick stab of the brakes, then lighten off and feather the brakes while steering. You may do the opposite as well. Start off light with heavy steering into the corner and wait to see if the rear comes out. If not, a quick jab of the brakes and letting off while still turning hard may bring the rear around.

It's really a neat technique to play with. There's so much you can do with it that there really is no one true way to do it. You'll change for each corner and situation. You can vary how quickly you intiate the drift, how quickly you slow down into the corner, adjust angle and speed in mid-drift in need be(if you're not going too slow). It's very versitile.
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Old 08-07-2004, 04:46 AM   #6
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Hello!

Thank you for posts like this!!

But I have a doubt: In a braking drift, the weight shifts to the front, but does the rear tires reach the lock point?
It is possible to get a braking drift without locking the rear tires?
So, with ABS you can get a brake drift?

Thank you very much for everything.
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Old 08-07-2004, 05:45 PM   #7
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Saul, it's good to see a Spanish drifter on here. Let me see if I can answer your questions.

Regarding the rear tires locking: Yes, it is very possible to initiate a braking drift without locking the rear tires, as the required pressure isn't severe. If the rear tires do lock, you may need to ease up on your braking pressure.
With ABS, a braking drift is about as easy to initiate than without ABS. In fact, I guess it's slightly easier because you don't have to be on the watch for lockup.
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Old 08-07-2004, 11:39 PM   #8
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The point of braking drift isn't to lock up the rear tires. All you're doing with braking is to shift weight forward. Depending on the car, this may only require very light braking to do. You're basically trying to make the car oversteer. That way when you turn, the front tires have more grip than the rear. The act of actually locking up the tires has nothing to do with braking drift. In fact, depending on the car's brake balance, this may cause a lock up of either the front tires, sever understeer, or lock up of the rear tires, oversteer(like if you pulled the e-brake). The only purpose of braking drift is to move weight forward. How much weight moves forward depends on the strength and quickness of the braking. The actual act of initiating the drift occurs through steering, not the braking itself. However, I do personally think that braking drift does include tire lock up and controlled sliding via modulation of the brakes. To me, as long as your foot is on the brake and you're sideways, it's braking drift, but that's just me. Note, even with the brakes on and sliding sidways, you can still have either tire lock up(heavy braking) or maintain tire rotation(lighter braking). The purpose is still the same. All you're doing is controlling the front/rear weight balance.
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Old 08-08-2004, 05:20 AM   #9
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Thank you very much!

It is delightfull to be with people like you!
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Old 08-08-2004, 11:08 AM   #10
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When done right a breaking drift is oh so smooth... silky smooth.. i love them.

The rear just glides around the front as traction (from the weight) is shifted laterally across the car.

So like mentioned above me no lock is nessisary. Infact is quite easy to apply the gas at that point and hold the drift longer, especialy in a LSD equipped car.
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Old 08-09-2004, 07:00 AM   #11
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wow , i just saw this, good post. i try to teach this to people instead of the usual n00b to n00b idea of "pull the ebrake to start the slide" , this is a good way to drift, you can even drift ff to an extent with this. good post :thumbsup:
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Old 08-20-2004, 08:39 AM   #12
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Thumbs up brake then turn - the fine point

Thanks for the specific detail about braking then turning in quick succession. That's the kind of fine point that I enjoy picking up here. It was incredibly specific and will significantly improve my chances of successfully executing a braking drift when I get around to it - I'm working on my heel & toe right now. uh, it's gonna be a little bit, I'm not getting the timing down instantly, ya know....
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Old 08-28-2004, 05:36 PM   #13
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Yeah, I didn't mean to say that the objective of braking drift is to lock the rears, sorry if it sounded that way.

Basically, just by having so much weight shifted forward, the decrease in available traction for lateral work is enough to get the rear end out.

Thanks for the compliments as well, and I'm glad that this post is still being utilized.
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Old 09-21-2004, 11:13 AM   #14
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Being someone who has only heard of drifting in Australia 6 months ago, i found that the Drift Bible helped me with my braking drift in my big heavy falcon.

Works a treat since i have a dodgy dash-mount handbrake and have to lean forward to use it, then it locks on and up a gutter you go.

Nice article. Hope everyone else finds it helpful as he is pretty much spot on with the technique here.
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Old 09-25-2004, 01:52 AM   #15
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is the braking method possible in an automatic? if so i will try this method coz at the moment im using the weight transfer method
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Old 09-26-2004, 10:33 AM   #16
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Wink

Fatvp: yes, it works in an auto or manual. Worth a try, on a "PRIVATE" road.
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Old 09-26-2004, 11:16 AM   #17
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fatvp, braking drift IS a weight transfer method. If you want to keep it in simple terms, it's simply braking to transfer weight forward. Just as steering is used to move weight from side to side and implement the feint technique, the braking technique simply brings the weight forward to initiate a drift. It is simply meant to increase front traction and decrease rear traction. By doing so, your car will be easily prone starting a drift via mild steering input.

Note, this technique is independent of car type, fwd, rwd, awd or or even transmission type. It has nothing to do with that aspect of the car. You brake, the weight goes forward, let off and steer. The front end gains traction, the rear end gets loose, and you steer to initate the drift. It's quite simple in concept. The key is not to think to hard, lol.

Getting used to it and controlling it well is another story. That takes time and practice, but it is a pretty easy to learn, just hard to work at the traction limits if you push that hard. Also realize, the amount of braking is only dependent on what is needed for the car to gain oversteer and on how you apply the technique.

Just like with feint, you can use a small or large amount of steering as well as a slow or fast steering rate. Varying these aspects will affect how the car behaves or even if it starts a drift or not. Braking is the same way. You can manipulate various aspects to adapt the technique for the corner or your style. You can brake lightly or heavily. You can gradually increase braking or just stab quickly on the brakes. You can brake and let off immediately before you steer or keep braking lightly while you steer. You'll adapt these aspects to the road and corner type as well as your style of starting your drift. Braking is even useful during the drift. As it creates an oversteer situation(as long as you don't lock up the front tires and create understeer), you can actually hold a drift angle from a high speed till stopped without use of any throttle or e-brake. This can be used for early initiation towards the end of a straignt before a turn or can be used to bleed off excess speed through a corner if you came in too hot and still want to maintain a drift. When I started on a fwd, this was my main method of maintaining a full corner drift from start to exit. Come in hot, brake to loosen the rear end and start the drift, then maintain light braking around and to the exit. It worked well for a smooth drift and supported a faster than normal entry speed. However, a fwd always exited slow. A rwd can do the braking half way, enter fast, braking drift to apex, and then lay on the throttle to maintain or gain speed, and drift through to the end. Play with the technique, get a good feel for it. It's a very useful method to use both to intiate and to control durning a drift. The only thing you have to worry about is braking too hard. If you lock up the front, you'll understeer and the drift either won't start or could end in mid-drift if you get too brake heavy part way through. The traction limits is the key you need to learn.
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Old 09-27-2004, 08:34 AM   #18
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When I do runs with my TBird, I have to combine the weight transfer with proper steering to get the best results, because with my 3.27's and slushbox, breaking the tires loose is out of the question. Sometimes I even throw in a tiny feint when gripping to set the car for the corner. Also learnng to trailbrake has saved my a$$ a time or 2.

Learning new ways to drive and getting your car to go faster simply by driving better is a great thing, indeed. You may not have Nomuken's talent, but you can always use your brain to get faster.

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Old 09-30-2004, 02:45 AM   #19
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yeah i also have an open diff which is *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* *Censored**Censored**Censored*
perth australia has no drift courses
they only have barbagallo raceway which is for cuircut racing
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Old 10-03-2004, 09:29 AM   #20
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Yeah sometimes it can also help if you have a weak e-brake like in mine. Mine will only lock one tire and thats in gravel.

This is good for loxwer speed tight corners is a combo of the two. Brake hard into the corner let off then turn but the rear doesn't come around since your only going like 30mph pull the e-brake and the rear traction just evaporates.
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Old 12-12-2004, 01:40 AM   #21
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That is one well explained concept. Thanks. But I've got a question; At what speed does this technique become ineffective? At what point would the speed be too slow for this technique to not work?

Thanks
B-Wurm
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Old 12-16-2004, 05:07 PM   #22
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at approximatel 18.4 miles per hour the rate of velocity that your car is traveling is so miniscule that braking will only further slow down the car. So braking drift will not work. But if you were to accelerate 50 percent and realize a speed of at the very least 20 miles per hour, then you can brake until your attain 18.4 miles an hour again and use 100 percent of the throttle to induce throttle, which in turn will cause power to be transmitted because of the air going through the air cleaner traveling through the air tubing increases in velocity and volume going into the engine, which has it's throttle plate or plates open ready to accept the incoming air. Then engine then will sense the opening the the throttle body, which registers the the throttle position sensor which sends a voltage to the computer and the computer computes the given voltage, which can be a value anywhere between half a volt and four and a half volts to let the engine's computer know how much throttle is applied, and the computer computes it to let the injectors know how much fuel to inject into the combustion chamber so that the engine doesn't run lean. This way, your braking drift won't become a breaking drift. Then you will feel the rush of torque planting you into your seat, this torque will be more with an engine capable of more air volume and velocity which will help the car to drift. Then you will feel the velocity of the car shift, and there fore you are drifting, but you are not done yet. You have to now modulate the throttle to modulat the electrical current going into the computer so that it can compute the variance in power the user wants to go to the rear wheels so that you don't just do a donut, this way you can continue to slide all the while you should use your right hand, coordinating with your left hand turn the steering wheel so the counter the direction of the vehicle's travel. So therefore you are now still travel in a direction but countersteering to travel in the same direction from what the applied force wants to turn the car. Now for high speed braking drift, it is actually easier because less throttle is neccesary to make the car do it's sideways wiggly thingy. All one has to do to accomplish a high speed braking drift is to coordinate the right foot to apply approximately eighty percent of braking force so that the earth's gravity can make the front of the car go down into the earth and the rear of the car want to go to the sky. Now, when this is happening, the user should apply more throttle to the computer can compute like mentioned before throttle to the rear wheels, making them kind of like they want to fly to the sky and SES their finkl so that the car will start to slide. When the car beginse to slide it will be at a much faster rate then when at twenty mile per hour. For example, say you were conduction braking drift at sixty something miles and hour, say sixty two miles and hour, this speed is approximately almost three times the speed of twenty miles an hour, but we only think that, in actual physical terms, it is not a linear applied amount of power but an exponential amount so when you coordinated the left and right hand to turn the steering wheel at a rate when conductin the braking drift at twenty miles and hour, you now have to conduct the right and left hand to use the steering wheel at a much higher rate, exponential like the speed is so that you can cause the vehicle to travel in the wanted direction, not in the undesired direction, If you do not conduct this well, you can not win Formula D, and don't even think about D1. The guys in D1 are so skilled at this that their computers compute the throttle going to the rear wheels at a rate much faster than your car. That is why you must buy a Power FC, and teach your car to compute fast. It is actually easy to teach yourself to coordinate your right and left hand to coordinate together, but much harder to make our car compute like the Japanese people's cars. It is becuase they have their car's built in the land of the rising sun, so the cars wake up earlier and are fully function long before our cars are. It's like the Japanese and Americans. The Japanese are awake earlier and are already hard at work making Sonys, Panasonics, JVCs, Toyotas, while us Americans are still alseep dreaming about our Fords and Chevys. So because their cars wake up earlier than ours, their cars can compute the value given to them by the user into power much sooner, and that is why even though Americans are practicinb to get good at drifting by practicing braking drift, we will not truly make it in D1 until we learn to wake up a the *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored*'s first crow like the Japanese. Well, either that, or someone buys Keichi a hooker. That guy looks like he needs one. That is my advice for braking drift. If you study it hard, I guarantee you one hundred and fifty percent, I don't even know where the fifty percent come from, it's like giving someone one hundred and fifty percent of an apple, when you only have one hundred percent of the apple, but I will give you a one hundred and fifty percent guarantee, like the one they gave me when I bought my Mustang from the Ford dealership that if you read and fully comprehend all that I have said here you will become a great drifter like Keichi, and someday, someone will want to buy you a hooker too, but your warranty won't be worth ten percent when you go back to the Ford dealership to use it.
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Old 12-16-2004, 06:19 PM   #23
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wow....

i read my first book..hahaha


great thread guys it really helped me understand the weight transition during a braking drift
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Old 12-19-2004, 01:14 PM   #24
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Holy crap was that a long and unbroken paragraph! But I daresay that was one helpful post. And I do think that I understood what you are saying. *Sees great things in his future*

B-Wurm

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Old 01-30-2005, 01:52 AM   #25
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when i had my jeep grand cherokee i got bored of off roading and started to mess arouind in this huge parking lot, the e brake was broken not that i would use it in an awd jeep but i got that thing sideways really good, before the tranny droped out (probably the reason the tranny dropped). but the videos that i have are sick, i just wish i had a mini dv cam that i could use to put it on the net. but back to the drifting part i got my jeep to drift when the awd system was working and after i snapped both front drive axles, and let me tell you a rwd jeep in the winter is not as much fun as you think it would be. any way how i got the jeep to drift was i would get up some speed then turn the wheel and as a driver you start to know your vehicle and i felt there was a certain point that tapping the brakes would send the rear wheels out and start the drift. soon after i got that down i could tell when that point where i should hit the brakes was coming and if ou mash the brakes down right before that i got my jeep to whip a full 360, but it was probably one of the scariest things i have ever done with the body roll and the jeep's noises, i thought that thing was going to flip but nope i kept the rubber side down.
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