FC 13BT rebuild to 3mm or not to 3mm

[Trots*88TII-AE*]

Just wondering, i just recently bought an 88 TII 10th anniversary FC off E-Bay (Don't even go there, i know i'm a flucking idiot) and it had *drum roll* a blown apex seal. surprise surprise. anyways, i'll be rebuilding it in the spring, and i was wondering if it's worth my time to go 3mm steel instead of 2mm? I can't afford the ceramic seals, but the 3mm steel ones aren't too badly priced, just be expensive to have the rotors machined. Does anyone know from experience if it makes a big difference in engine life? I'd like to get around to drifting it, and i'll probably do some basic upgrades (exh, intake, suspension, FMIC) and i'd like to run it around 10-15 psi boost. And, i may also get like a street port or something. Is the street port worth the money for the power? and is the 3mm way better than the stock or aftermarket 2mm seals? Thanks.

[theflatlander]

3mm seals are a waste of money and hinder the motor if anything. Stock seals are good up and over 500whp. 3mm seals weigh are heavier so the chatter at lower revs than 2mm, and they will change port timing a little bit.

[nasty nate 7]

Originally Posted by theflatlander

3mm seals are a waste of money and hinder the motor if anything. Stock seals are good up and over 500whp. 3mm seals weigh are heavier so the chatter at lower revs than 2mm, and they will change port timing a little bit.

i agree. the stock ones are fine

[Vosko]

stock seals work great !!! 3mm is a band aid and just asking for more clearance problems

[FC_RAUL]

RE Amemiya uses the stock seals on their race cars. If it's good enough for a JGTC race car it's good enough for me

[Trots*88TII-AE*]

alright cool, thanks. this info'll save me a lot of $$$, i'll stick w/ 2mm and i think i'm gonna get it mildly streetported while it's apart anyways. I was going to go with the rebuild kits from Atkins, any better ideas?????

[theflatlander]

how much power u looking to get out of you're motor? Also s4 blocks have a tendecy to crack on the dowel near the oil filter so u might want to do something about it if you're looking for more than 300whp, u can run a S5 endplate and it'll be fine.

[nasty nate 7]

trots, you should really go to the rx7 forums. i can name a few, they are very knowledgable and they help a lot. to name a few: www.teamfc3s.org, www.rx7clubs.com, nopistons.com, and fc3s.org they should have all the answers you seek welcome to the rotary community~!

[S13/R32]

get it bridge ported or j ported

bridge porting has a nice sound

j ports are kinda loud and are probly better for fuel injected cars i think bridge is more for carby rotors but i could be wrong im more of a pistons guy

[Hollywood]

I have always run 2mm seals in my race motors, but make sure you go with a 2mm, 2 piece apex seal. all the mazda remans now come with a 2 piece seals instead of the original 3 piece.

[theflatlander]

Originally Posted by S13/R32

get it bridge ported or j ported

bridge porting has a nice sound

j ports are kinda loud and are probly better for fuel injected cars i think bridge is more for carby rotors but i could be wrong im more of a pistons guy

i think he wants his motor to last more than 15k miles, and will be driven on the streets. A full bridge+turbo and your looking in 700+hp area.

[S13/R32]

my RX2 has a 13B bridge ported, 48 IDA webber and extractors
i've never had any probs with its since it was ported

[theflatlander]

how big are your bridges? And i was mostly talking about j-bridges and bridged turbo motors. Also can i see some pics of your rx-2?, gotta love old school.

[nasty nate 7]

are you guys running standalones? i havent ported mine yet(havent rebuild mine yet) but after i do a street port, i plan to use a microtech ems(any comments are welcome or experience on the ltx12s)

[Trots*88TII-AE*]

what kind of power gains can you get from mild streetporting? and do you lose considerable bottom end by doing it or reduce your engine life?

[Hollywood]

it all depends on who dose the porting. different shops do different porting. I have seen "street ports" done by certain shops that are much smaller then other shops "street ports"
I would recomend running a stand alone, especialy if you go with one of those bigger street ports.

[theflatlander]

Power gain depends on port timing, tuning and how much boost you'll be running, and a mild street port isn't gonna decrease engine life at all, and pending on what size turbo your gonna run your bottom end will be just as good if not better.

[Boostedrex]

Trots,

Everybody hit the nail on the head about the apex seals. 3mm seals are nothing more than a crutch that allow poor tuning. 2mm 2 piece seals will be more than adequate.

As for porting your engine, a street port will not shorten the life span of your engine. You won't lose much bottom end if you even lose any. Both of my 7's have streetports. The FD has a mild port and the TII has huge streetports. Both of them are very civilized on the street and niether one has any lack of bottom end power. If you need a good shop then check out Judge Ito, Bryan Cain, Rotor Sports Racing, Pinneaple, KD Rotary, and/or Atkins rotary. And I would suggest checking them out in that order. As for the stand alone EMS, you need it if you are planning on going with big power. Anything at or over 300rwhp I would strongly suggest a stand alone. Check out the Haltech E6X or the Microtec setups. I don't have any experience with Microtec so I can't say good or bad about them. I have heard good things about that company though. I do have experience with Haltech so I would say go with them. They make a great product and they have pretty good prices depending on who you buy it from. As always, if you have any questions please feel free to PM me or email me at boostedrex@gmail.com

Vosko!!!!!!! Good to see you posting on here bro. How's the S13 doing? Missing rotaries much yet? Take care!

Zach

[Trots*88TII-AE*]

Originally Posted by Boostedrex

Trots,

Everybody hit the nail on the head about the apex seals. 3mm seals are nothing more than a crutch that allow poor tuning. 2mm 2 piece seals will be more than adequate.

As for porting your engine, a street port will not shorten the life span of your engine. You won't lose much bottom end if you even lose any. Both of my 7's have streetports. The FD has a mild port and the TII has huge streetports. Both of them are very civilized on the street and niether one has any lack of bottom end power. If you need a good shop then check out Judge Ito, Bryan Cain, Rotor Sports Racing, Pinneaple, KD Rotary, and/or Atkins rotary. And I would suggest checking them out in that order. As for the stand alone EMS, you need it if you are planning on going with big power. Anything at or over 300rwhp I would strongly suggest a stand alone. Check out the Haltech E6X or the Microtec setups. I don't have any experience with Microtec so I can't say good or bad about them. I have heard good things about that company though. I do have experience with Haltech so I would say go with them. They make a great product and they have pretty good prices depending on who you buy it from. As always, if you have any questions please feel free to PM me or email me at boostedrex@gmail.com

Vosko!!!!!!! Good to see you posting on here bro. How's the S13 doing? Missing rotaries much yet? Take care!

Zach

Thanks a lot man, that info really helps me out. I was planning on staying pretty conservative with the power, i'm on a tyte budget so probably stock turbo for now and definately gonna be under 300 hp. Would i be able to get by on stock ECU with a piggy back if i port it, or will i still need a full EMS? and, are the factory Mazda rebuild kits w/ 2 piece 2mm seals the best kits to buy? or are the aftermarket kits better??

[nasty nate 7]

Originally Posted by Trots*88TII-AE*

Thanks a lot man, that info really helps me out. I was planning on staying pretty conservative with the power, i'm on a tyte budget so probably stock turbo for now and definately gonna be under 300 hp. Would i be able to get by on stock ECU with a piggy back if i port it, or will i still need a full EMS? and, are the factory Mazda rebuild kits w/ 2 piece 2mm seals the best kits to buy? or are the aftermarket kits better??

if your doing a street port, you dont REALLY need a EMS or piggyback, it wont hurt you. if your doing a anything beyond a street port, its recommended to use a EMS, im not so sure on piggybacks, dont know if anyone has used this route of tuning. but it looks to me as if its more of a hassle with programing plug and play. as for the rebuild kits, i find nothing wrong with aftermarket. rotaryaviation sells basic kits for under 600 bucks or atkins rotary kits go for like 750. thats the cheapest you can find these kits around and they are very reputable and praised by rotary enthusiasts.

[Boostedrex]

Trots,

The Mazda rebuild kit is fine. So is the Atkins kit though. I like Rotary Aviation, but I have had a few friends who have had trouble with their apex seals. Get with mazdatrix to get a rebuild kit if you don't feel like going with Atkins. About the EMS issue. You can run on a streetport with the stock EMS. I wouldn't recommend it. You can pick up a used Apex'i SAFC for $200. That would take care of your fuel needs until you could afford a nice Haltech or Microtech. I ran my FC for about a year with a HUGE streetport and I used the SAFC. I was running a Walbro 255 fuel pump, stock primary injectors, and 720cc secondaries. I never had any problems. Could boost up to 14psi. I'm very glad that I switched to a Haltech now though. Like always, let me know if I can be of any help.

Zach

[theflatlander]

Originally Posted by Boostedrex

Trots,

The Mazda rebuild kit is fine. So is the Atkins kit though. I like Rotary Aviation, but I have had a few friends who have had trouble with their apex seals. Get with mazdatrix to get a rebuild kit if you don't feel like going with Atkins. About the EMS issue. You can run on a streetport with the stock EMS. I wouldn't recommend it. You can pick up a used Apex'i SAFC for $200. That would take care of your fuel needs until you could afford a nice Haltech or Microtech. I ran my FC for about a year with a HUGE streetport and I used the SAFC. I was running a Walbro 255 fuel pump, stock primary injectors, and 720cc secondaries. I never had any problems. Could boost up to 14psi. I'm very glad that I switched to a Haltech now though. Like always, let me know if I can be of any help.

Zach

yeah about the RA kit, i've heard a lot of problems with the apex seal springs flattening out real early, but if you use stock mazda springs it shouldnt be a problem.

[Boostedrex]

Originally Posted by theflatlander

yeah about the RA kit, i've heard a lot of problems with the apex seal springs flattening out real early, but if you use stock mazda springs it shouldnt be a problem.

Thanks for the info. I hadn't heard what about the RA seals was going bad. I knew that their seals were supposed to be great. So just use the stock Mazda seals then? I have a friend who just ordered a set too. I'll be sure to let him know.

Zach

[theflatlander]

the seals are actually really nice, just the springs wear out so if you can get just the RA seals w/o the springs and order some stock mazda apex seal springs then go for it.