s13 understeer problem

insane · 05-12-2005, 02:23 AM

I have a stock 240sx coupe that suffers form horible understeer is there any tweaking of the factory suspention that I can do to remove it. I have tein tie rods+ends but have yet to install them. In case it matters, I have about 120 pounds of crap in the trunk.

zerodrifter · 05-12-2005, 02:27 AM

more wieght in the trunk = less grip in the front = understear. Get the crap out.

sdtouge · 05-12-2005, 06:14 AM

more weight in the trunk means the tires would be griping less = oversteer.

Yeap · 05-12-2005, 07:11 AM

Wow - Have you ever considered it's the driver and not the car.

GotNismo? · 05-12-2005, 08:12 AM

how fast are we talkin here.. cuz if its low speed understeer thats bad, id say replave the rods and ends and see how it goes. and get the crapp outta the trunk just to keep the closest thing to balance you can.

Yeap · 05-12-2005, 08:35 AM

To help with the understeer try some performance tension rods. The only thing that the tie rods and ends will help with is greater steering wheel rotation in counter-steering situations or deep angle drift. Hope this helps.

Tuner · 05-12-2005, 09:31 AM

Tire pressure, alignment, sway bars. Check those

ward · 05-12-2005, 09:56 AM

empty your trunk out and get a biger sway bar in the back or take your front sway bar out, but take it eazy till you know exactly how your car will behave and practice tranfering your weight to the front of your car

O5m0515 · 05-12-2005, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdtouge

more weight in the trunk means the tires would be griping less = oversteer.

You are 100% WRONG. Tires get more grip when there is weight over them.

sdtouge · 05-12-2005, 05:42 PM

thats true in physics but not in the real world.

why do you think the mr2 gets so much over steer. just like when you swap a rb25 or somewthing into your 240 youll get more understeer.

sorry. your 100% wrong.

Spy001 · 05-12-2005, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdtouge

thats true in physics but not in the real world.

why do you think the mr2 gets so much over steer. just like when you swap a rb25 or somewthing into your 240 youll get more understeer.

sorry. your 100% wrong.

the mr2 doesnt get "so much over steer"

when people refer to mr2s over steer they say the snap oversteer, because when the back end DOES step out, it steps out quickly due to the excessive weight in the back.

whta the hell did you mean its true in physics but not the real world? the real world is physics sucka.

he said the trunk, we arent just talking about general weight here, there is more weight over the REAR wheels, causing them to stick more, and it probably upsets the cars balance a lot.

your argument about swapping an engine and it behaving the same as having a lot of weight in the back isnt even correct for the situation. first off, youre generalizing, and you havent driven every 240 with swaps like that. second, if you swap the engine, you change the weight in the front, though you argue that it does the same as adding weight to the back. youre argument is baseless.

all in all its the driver, just work on your technique and it doesnt matter who you believe about more weight in the back or whatever get the crap out anyways, less weight is generally better.

GotNismo? · 05-12-2005, 08:02 PM

yea maintain balance, check all alignment issues and some sticky tires really wont hurt you (other than your wallet).

drz · 05-13-2005, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O5m0515

You are 100% WRONG. Tires get more grip when there is weight over them.

Yes, tires can privide more grip with more weight on them, but lateral grip does not rise in linear fashion with increasing weight. This is why a 2000lb Elise can easily obtain more cornering speed than a 4000lb Camaro, and why shifter-carts can obtain more than 3 G's of cornering force.

Less weight over the rear tires would give that end of the car more grip relative to the weight that they carry, and this results in more understeer (everything else being equal) - plain and simple.

This is not to be mistaken with the fact that less weight over the rear axle will allow the engine to more easily overpower the tires in low-speed maneuvers, but the effect is small and can't be counted on to overcome the increase in lateral grip resulting from small reductions in weight over the rear axle.

My suggestion is to not bother with trying to correct understeer, and spend time to learn entry techniques. Most well set-up drift cars naturally understeer in steady-state cornering, as this provides for a more stable and controllable vehicle while drifting.

insane · 05-13-2005, 08:14 PM

I appretiate all help, and I realize none of you know me personaly, so here is what happened: I initiated a 60mph high angle drift in third gear using the feint tecnique and a lot of throttle shortly before a wide 90 degree turn, the car stayed sideways for about one second, then the car started to understeer
itself into the outside curb. my tention rod bushings are shot and my tie rod end bushings are shot.

Yeap · 05-13-2005, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insane

I appretiate all help, and I realize none of you know me personaly, so here is what happened: I initiated a 60mph high angle drift in third gear using the feint tecnique and a lot of throttle shortly before a wide 90 degree turn, the car stayed sideways for about one second, then the car started to understeer
itself into the outside curb. my tention rod bushings are shot and my tie rod end bushings are shot.

lol...thats what you get for drifting on the street.

insane · 05-13-2005, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yeap

lol...thats what you get for drifting on the street.

yo yeapie close your yaper, or at least quit imitating the guy in my avatar, he is the master at what he does, and even though you try hard, you will never be better at it than him. so please do your self a favor and give up. I did not hit the curb, the bushings were shot since I have owned the car.

cfrost · 05-14-2005, 02:20 AM

drama drama drama

Quit being babies. Get some grippier tires to give yourself some more response, but get to know your car better because if you practice you can begin to feel when these things are going to happen.

Just play with tire pressure tire setup and everything else you can right now because that'll help you find what's best for you.

P.S. if you do this at a drift day, cones won't kill your suspension like curbs do

insane · 05-14-2005, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfrost

drama drama drama

Quit being babies. Get some grippier tires to give yourself some more response, but get to know your car better because if you practice you can begin to feel when these things are going to happen.

Just play with tire pressure tire setup and everything else you can right now because that'll help you find what's best for you.

P.S. if you do this at a drift day, cones won't kill your suspension like curbs do

Yeah... I didn't hit the curb... If I did, wouldn't it be safe to say that slaming into a curb at a little less than 60mph would do alot more damage than break 4 bushings? you say "Just play with tire pressure tire setup and everything else you can right now because that'll help you find what's best for you." Well, what is the everything else? Toe? camber? Caster? Can the stock s13 suspention be adusted to eliminate understeer?

new_to_drift · 05-14-2005, 09:31 PM

ya s13 have understeer,but thats something they are known for.i had no problem turning mine sideways and keeping it sideways around a pole and holding a pretty good line accounting on have an open dif.but i wont have to deal with understeer anymore accounting on an old guy hitting my car and totaling it.so i just bought a mr2 w/new turbo setup.ill let u guys know how that goes.we will see.it will be fun either way.

cfrost · 05-14-2005, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Can the stock s13 suspention be adusted to eliminate understeer?

NO, YOU JUST NEED TO TRY HARDER

insane · 05-15-2005, 02:46 PM

Im not going to read or post to this thread this any more.

O5m0515 · 05-15-2005, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdtouge

thats true in physics but not in the real world.

why do you think the mr2 gets so much over steer. just like when you swap a rb25 or somewthing into your 240 youll get more understeer.

sorry. your 100% wrong.

Sorry, your still wrong. In the real world, when I have 2 tires strapped in the back the back end does not come out as readily because they have more grip.

sdtouge · 05-15-2005, 08:23 PM

according to your theory then, where tires get more grip when theres more weight on them, switching to a 2 inch wide wheel would have better grip then becuase theres more psi on a 2 inch wide tire than a 8 inh wide tire.

does that make sense to YOU?

O5m0515 · 05-16-2005, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdtouge

according to your theory then, where tires get more grip when theres more weight on them, switching to a 2 inch wide wheel would have better grip then becuase theres more psi on a 2 inch wide tire than a 8 inh wide tire.

does that make sense to YOU?

Weight and width aren't related smart guy. There's more then one factor to the equation, and now your changing multiple variables. I'm speaking from real world experiance. My friend with a 77 Corolla and bald rear tires loaded his rear car with junk so he wouldn't lose traction as easily. When I have tires in the back of my car it's harder to break them loose. What are you basing your idea off of.

sdtouge · 05-16-2005, 09:08 PM

well you said more weight over the rear tires would be more gri in the back. so more wieght over the tires more grip. narrower tires would mean more weight on the tire because of the smaller surface area.

theres another thread somewhere ill find thats the exact oppsite of this. ill try and find it and post a link.

05-12-2005, 02:23 AM	#1
insane ...are you? Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 89	s13 understeer problem I have a stock 240sx coupe that suffers form horible understeer is there any tweaking of the factory suspention that I can do to remove it. I have tein tie rods+ends but have yet to install them. In case it matters, I have about 120 pounds of crap in the trunk.

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05-12-2005, 02:27 AM	#2
zerodrifter Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: North East Posts: 373	more wieght in the trunk = less grip in the front = understear. Get the crap out.

05-12-2005, 06:14 AM	#3
sdtouge Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: san diego Posts: 868	more weight in the trunk means the tires would be griping less = oversteer.

05-12-2005, 07:11 AM	#4
Yeap Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: San Diego Posts: 28	Wow - Have you ever considered it's the driver and not the car.

05-12-2005, 08:12 AM	#5
GotNismo? But officer i swear.... Join Date: May 2004 Location: New Orleans Posts: 234	how fast are we talkin here.. cuz if its low speed understeer thats bad, id say replave the rods and ends and see how it goes. and get the crapp outta the trunk just to keep the closest thing to balance you can.

05-12-2005, 08:35 AM	#6
Yeap Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: San Diego Posts: 28	To help with the understeer try some performance tension rods. The only thing that the tie rods and ends will help with is greater steering wheel rotation in counter-steering situations or deep angle drift. Hope this helps.

05-12-2005, 09:31 AM	#7
Tuner Oversteer Join Date: May 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 623	Tire pressure, alignment, sway bars. Check those

05-12-2005, 09:56 AM	#8
ward Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: o.c. ca. Posts: 66	empty your trunk out and get a biger sway bar in the back or take your front sway bar out, but take it eazy till you know exactly how your car will behave and practice tranfering your weight to the front of your car

05-12-2005, 05:42 PM	#10
sdtouge Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: san diego Posts: 868	thats true in physics but not in the real world. why do you think the mr2 gets so much over steer. just like when you swap a rb25 or somewthing into your 240 youll get more understeer. sorry. your 100% wrong.

05-12-2005, 08:02 PM	#12
GotNismo? But officer i swear.... Join Date: May 2004 Location: New Orleans Posts: 234	yea maintain balance, check all alignment issues and some sticky tires really wont hurt you (other than your wallet).

05-13-2005, 08:14 PM	#14
insane ...are you? Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 89	I appretiate all help, and I realize none of you know me personaly, so here is what happened: I initiated a 60mph high angle drift in third gear using the feint tecnique and a lot of throttle shortly before a wide 90 degree turn, the car stayed sideways for about one second, then the car started to understeer itself into the outside curb. my tention rod bushings are shot and my tie rod end bushings are shot.

05-14-2005, 02:20 AM	#17
cfrost Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: shift-lock.net Posts: 499	drama drama drama Quit being babies. Get some grippier tires to give yourself some more response, but get to know your car better because if you practice you can begin to feel when these things are going to happen. Just play with tire pressure tire setup and everything else you can right now because that'll help you find what's best for you. P.S. if you do this at a drift day, cones won't kill your suspension like curbs do

05-14-2005, 09:31 PM	#19
new_to_drift another 240 owner Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Novi,Michigan Posts: 244	ya s13 have understeer,but thats something they are known for.i had no problem turning mine sideways and keeping it sideways around a pole and holding a pretty good line accounting on have an open dif.but i wont have to deal with understeer anymore accounting on an old guy hitting my car and totaling it.so i just bought a mr2 w/new turbo setup.ill let u guys know how that goes.we will see.it will be fun either way.

05-15-2005, 02:46 PM	#21
insane ...are you? Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 89	Im not going to read or post to this thread this any more.

05-15-2005, 08:23 PM	#23
sdtouge Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: san diego Posts: 868	according to your theory then, where tires get more grip when theres more weight on them, switching to a 2 inch wide wheel would have better grip then becuase theres more psi on a 2 inch wide tire than a 8 inh wide tire. does that make sense to YOU?

05-16-2005, 09:08 PM	#25
sdtouge Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: san diego Posts: 868	well you said more weight over the rear tires would be more gri in the back. so more wieght over the tires more grip. narrower tires would mean more weight on the tire because of the smaller surface area. theres another thread somewhere ill find thats the exact oppsite of this. ill try and find it and post a link.