To swap or not to sawp?

[rhino1]

I am trying to get some info and advise before I purchase a 89-94 240. I want to set up for drifting or SCCA. I do not believe thereare any big drift events here in Savannah, GA or near by. I have read a lot about sr swaps and all. If I am planning on swaping turbos and all, why not take the stock block and build it. Is there a difference between a 240sx's block and a sr20det block? Also, will a skyline motor fir these cars? If so, what fits the s-13 easier? I am sorry if these are all questions you get a lot. Thanks a lot for your time.

[Rooney]

Most RB engines (skyline motors) cost a average of $8,000 to have put in your car. If you have the money or time to custom make parts and have the time to do it yourself, go ahead for the RB. I think you should go with the CA motor. Not many people use it making it different from everyone else.


Where in Georgia are you?

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by rhino1
I am trying to get some info and advise before I purchase a 89-94 240. I want to set up for drifting or SCCA. I do not believe thereare any big drift events here in Savannah, GA or near by. I have read a lot about sr swaps and all. If I am planning on swaping turbos and all, why not take the stock block and build it. Is there a difference between a 240sx's block and a sr20det block? Also, will a skyline motor fir these cars? If so, what fits the s-13 easier? I am sorry if these are all questions you get a lot. Thanks a lot for your time.

Atlanta georgia will be the first session of the Formula D drift event. April 24-25 http://www.formulad.com

There many difference between the 240sx's KA24 block and the Silvia's SR20 block. They are a completely different family, have different bores and strokes internals are made differently, different porting ect.. Blocks are made of different materials. Both are good engines to build up, And they are similar due to the fact there both inline 4s that nissan designed around the same time.

If your going to rip apart the whole turbo system anyways, you may want to consider getting a turbo kit for the KA series of motors. they are both pretty sturdy, and theres a big debate over which is stronger. Everyone has differnet opinion, I havent blown up either so i cant say.

They will both bolt into the chassis, because both motors were designed to fit in the car.

RB or skyline Series of engines can be swapped in, Its suposively not too much more difficult to do. The motors/trannys are heavier, it is said about 100 to 150 pounds heavier. They are inline 6s, the big skyline GTR motor is the Rb26DETT these are ocasionally put in the 240sx, but they are even heavier and have all kinds of fitment issues due to the twin turbos. they are also very expensive, sence they have to come from a skyline gtr

the RB25 is the common motor that is swapped in, from the Skyline GT-S from the R33 and R34 skylines. It is a 2.5 liter 6 cylender single turbo. Great engine, the RBs are suposed to be stronger then the KA or SR series motors. They have smaller pistons physicall, sence theres more of them. And will rev higher with more displacement then either the KA and the SR

whats also done is the RB20 is swapped in from the GT-S skyline of the R32 chassis and anumber of other nissan cars. It is a 2 liter inline 6 with a short stroke, suposed to be also strong, but still heavier. The engine its self, is pretty cheap compared to other swaps, and you can usualy get a good deal on them. There less popular because your adding extra weight and not getting any more displacement over the sr20.

the CA18 is a 1.8 liter motor that came in the first run of S13s, its another family all together but also bolts in. these can also be had for pretty cheap, i dont like them however because your going from a 2.4 liter KA to a 1.8 liter CA.. i dont like loosing displacement.

Anyways theres your answers.

[rhino1]

CA motor? I'm in Savannah

[Rooney]

Originally posted by nissanguy_24

There many difference between the 240sx's KA24 block and the
the CA18 is a 1.8 liter motor that came in the first run of S13s, its another family all together but also bolts in. these can also be had for pretty cheap, i dont like them however because your going from a 2.4 liter KA to a 1.8 liter CA.. i dont like loosing displacement.

Anyways theres your answers.

[rhino1]

wouldn't it be better to stay with more displacement? So, how much can a stock 240 block hold with good internals?

[Rooney]

The KA is what comes stock in a American 240sx. Yes displacement is good, but drifting is not all about power.

[nissanguy_24]

it can be.

Depends on the person, I like displacement but i also like to rev high, the KA has a huge stroke on it comparitively. It comes down to personal preference. luckily there are many different engines out there that can be swaped in, or built up in the case of the KA, so its easy to pick the one you want.

[rhino1]

I have drifted some with my mustang. I am actually pretty good at controlling my car. I know seeing is believing, but I can say I do a pretty good job. What is the important when building a drift car?

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by Rooney
The KA is what comes stock in a American 240sx. Yes displacement is good, but drifting is not all about power.

Very true.

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by rhino1
I have drifted some with my mustang. I am actually pretty good at controlling my car. I know seeing is believing, but I can say I do a pretty good job. What is the important when building a drift car?

Driver skill, followed by whatever you feel you need to improve your driving.

As you get better you will realize what you need/want. To take it ot the next level.

[nissanguy_24]

Sorry to post so many times in a row. but to follow up on what i just said.

Drifting is about taking a car and making it an extension of your self threw your drifting. Thats why i feel a drift car should be built to a person's personal taste. I dont think anyone has a set way to build a drift car.

Drifting is so much skill and personal preference.

[rhino1]

I hear ya. When I am drifting my car, I feel completely different. I know what is going to happen if I turn the wheel this wasy, or if I give it more gas. I love it.

[rhino1]

who makes good pistons, connecting rods, crank , etc for the KA block? What will I need to do if I want to rev it a lot? Also, what is a good compression ratio for a turbo setup?

[hachiroku-fc3s]

Originally posted by rhino1
I want to set up for drifting or SCCA. I do not believe thereare any big drift events here in Savannah, GA or near by.

Have you ever done any auto x? I mean, you just asked about throwing a built skyline motor in an s chassis? Not ideal. It could work but for motorsports like this where weight distribution is crucial, youre begging to throw it to hell. Aside from that, I know some guys in Georgia if you ever wanna meet with somebody who knows whats up. If you wanna rev a KA...ummm...machine your own crank, rods, and oil pan. Destroke it and pray that your cylinder walls hold. Boring out a KA isnt a great idea as the cylinder walls are already relatively thin and ignition timing would be crucial so stand alone would be recommended if not mandatory. Turbo compression ratios usually fall between 7.5 and 9.0. 7.5 being unusually low and above 9.0 being dangerously high if you dont know what youre doing.

[Ghost of Duluth]

Goergia is a hot bed for nice cars.

As for an RB being 8000 to do, no way. For an RB26, yea you are looking at that at least. For an RB20 you aren't looking at any fabrication. You can buy the mounts right there in Atlanta. My brother fabs them and they are super sweet. Only ones on the market here that clear the oil pan, firewall and allow you to run a strut tower brace on the it after completion. He does kits to do th install. Kit includes the motor mounts and the tranny mount. There you go, it's in. Heclk he is seling his 240 right now and it already has the RB20 sitting in it.

If i'm not mistaken you can get an RB20 clip cheaper than the SR clip. The RB20's have really come down in price. The 25's and the 26'6 are still up there but they will fall soon enough. Reason being it that the RB is a hevier motor and everyone wants the SR's. So demand warrants price. The RB swap is a relatively painless one. Contact my brother, his shop can do the swap as well. www.tophatperformance.com. That's his site. His shop is in Conyers. They do ALOT of stuff and they are about to do more when I get down there to help him out.

But if I were you, I would stay with the KA and get your skill together before you do all this swapping. You are trying to learn a skill but yet you want to take the very thing that is going to facilitate you learning that skill apart. Any engine swap is going to take at least a month. They can say it takes shorter time but it never does. Something inevitably goes wrong and your car is there for a month or you have to take it back cause something is not right. Then you have missed half the events and half the season. So were I you, I would invest that money more wisely into suspension, tires and entry fee's into anything and everything that I could find including but not limited to, driving schools at Road Atlanta, track days racing events etc, etc.... That is the only way you are going to learn anything. There are monthly Auto X meetings in Atlanta. There are clubs that hold Rally's such as the Ga Z-club, the Porsche club and others. THose clubs also hold track days and all sorts of events that you don't have to have the same kind of car to go to. I went to a Z-club rally in my Mustang one time and did pretty well. I ran through the N. Ga mountains. Super nice guys and very professional Henry and his Hooligans are. Check em out. Plus you can join and get discounts to loal shops.

So before you worry bout power, worry bout Poise. You will be much happier that you did.

[Ex-Cat]

Hey Ghost, all cost issues aside what would you say about trying to fit an RB26 into an FD?

[R32GTST]

RB20DET will fit into the S13 chassis with no problem. Just use the crossmember from the R32 GTS-T that it came from. BTW, R32 GT-S is a non-turbo RB20DE. GTS-T is the RB20DET.

RB25DET will also fit but usually, this engine came from R33 Skylines. So, you might need to source the R32 crossmember to fit. RB25DET came from R33 GTS25-T and Stagea RS250 and RB25DET Neo came from R34 GT-T and Stagea RS250X-4.

To use an RB26DETT, grand daddy of them all, you'll need the RB20 or most suitable would be RB25DET 5 speed gearbox. RB26 shares the same wiring configuration as the RB20DET. RB25DET does not!

Now, CA18DET is basically an RB engine with 4 pistons instead of 6. Its design and dimensions shares that of RB engines. Installing one in a S13 chassis is very straightforward. CA18DET with mild mods (Exhaust/FMIC/Intake/remapped) can achieved 180rwkW with stock internals/turbo. That's around 245rwhp.

I don't know much about KA but I do know about SR20DET. My advice is, go for what you want and what you can afford. CA and RB are relatively cheaper than the SR. KA is even cheaper!

Build your skill first, then upgrade. If you think you're ready for it, then go ahead.

-R32GTST-

[nissanguy_24]

Ghost has your brother ever had a rb25 S13 up on the scales? i would love to know the weight and dsitribution of one of those. I mean off the actual scale..i hear alot of hearsay about it, but no one i know has ever actually weighed one.

Though i hear with the proper mounts the weight distribution isnt off toobad, Weight seems to be a big issue with it... That said i would still love a rb25 swap once i feel like i can handle it.

anyone who says it cant drift.. well i doubt many of them have ever drifted one... besides if people can drift a Skyline GTS turbo then i dont see a problem with a S13 with one...

[hachiroku-fc3s]

Originally posted by Ex-Cat
Hey Ghost, all cost issues aside what would you say about trying to fit an RB26 into an FD?

Id say, " You can't be serious". I havent seen an RB26, I guess I could run over to cartune and check out one but I would think the RB would be a little wide, together with the whole "dumbest idea ever" aspect, not a good swap idea.

[nissanguy_24]

i've seen a few rb26s in S13s, at different car shows and events. There are fitment issues, but its been done and its do able. Expensive and alot of stuff needs to be done. Its said the twin turbos wont clear the steering colume for one.

Buts its doable.

EDIT: im dumb, the above info is for a rb26 into a s13, i didnt realize the post above was for a rb26 into a FD

hey im in savannah ,lets go rip some shite up,u wanna go?oh geta lsd and sus.

[aphxero]

I'll always tell people you don't need a swap. You'd be better off building the important parts of the car.

[hachiroku-fc3s]

Nissanguy, you realize that says "FD" right?

[nissanguy_24]

Oh no, my bad i guess i didnt read all of it, Yeah a rb26 in a FD would be kindof dumb, i was thinking Rb26 into the S13.