Anybody drive a Subaru?

[Drift For Food]

Ok, I have a small question. I just got a '02 Forester. One thing I've noticed is that the gear shifting is kind of crappy(weak?). Everything's notchy feeling and I basically can't shift into first unless I'm almost stopped(possibly the synchro, but I've heard this is normal). I'm ok with the feel of the shifting. Every vehicle's different, and I've heard Subarus are this way. Now as far as the 1st gear issue, I've heard mixed results, some say normal, some say not.

If I've got the clutch in and I'm coasting to a stop, it'll fall into 1st just above 10mph. If I try to force it, it will grind. If I'm going faster and try to put it in, it will grind(with a little force). Lightly pressing won't grind but it'll never go into gear unless I pretty much match rpm or let the car almost stop. The behavior is different from all other gears.

I brought it to the dealer and told them that I thought the 1st gear synchro was bad(after a friend mechanic brought it to my attention, he doesn't have much experience with Subarus though, but he's a good mechanic).

I told the dealer that I can't shift into 1st while downshift at say 20mph. They said the thing was within normal specs and they advised me not to put it into 1st unless I'm stopped. ???

Are they playing me? Or are Subarus just this way?

I've got around another year of drivetrain warranty on it(milage wise), so I'm in no hurry. I plan on testing it some more and getting a full idea of how it behaves, so I have a little more to discuss. I'm also going to get a second opinion from a transmission shop as well.

I just got the car anyways, need a little time to get used to it. Just curious if any of you have experienced/heard anything about this.

[the_finn]

call me crazy... i have only been driving standard for about......2 years now... but i never downshift to first... ever... i can't think of a time when i have had to... down shift to second sure.... but i was taught when i learned stick that 1st is for gettting started and just moving the car around all of your real "driving" happens in 2nd - 5th shifting to 1st while moving will put undue stress on your tranny

as for the subaru being particular about this it's possible i can ask my dad if the WRX has this issue and reply later...

TF

[driftfreak]

my mom drives one...
an outback sport..but its an auto

[Feint]

Originally posted by the_finn
when i learned stick that 1st is for gettting started and just moving the car around all of your real "driving" happens in 2nd - 5th shifting to 1st while moving will put undue stress on your tranny

That's the usual rule of thumb.Only put it in first when coming to a complete stop.You really don't have to even put it in first when coming to a stop,you could leave it in second if you wanted to,and take off from stand-still in second without any problems(unless you stall).

[slipangle]

i believe that there might be some sort of semi-lockout on the transmission that makes it extremely difficult to downshift to first at any speed greater than like 10 mph. I have the same type of thing on my miata....its basicly to keep morons from over-revving or losing control.

[the_finn]

i asked my father about the WRX... and he said if he wanted to downshift to first he could there was no lockout... so maybe it is just your tranny... tho i stand by the "no reason to ever downshift to first" rule

TF

[fuse]

all cars are designed to to that i have owned 7 cars in my life and all of them have done that at aaround the same speed. its because the gear ratio is reall far apart at first your gear ration is probably like3.2 to 1 or something that means the output shaft going to the wheels has to spin 3 times faster than the input shaft going to the engine. the way to get it into first at that speed is to heel toe it will slide in like butter if you do it right

[Drift For Food]

Perhaps I'm expecting too much. I'm used to a truck where I can basically put it in any gear I want reguardless of engine rpm. Going 65mph and want to go in 2nd? Sure, no problem, lol. I know that's not a normal ability for a manual, but I'm used to it. Also, all the other gears don't have the issue. I basically have to baby it into first gear above 10mph. I expect not to have to rpm match to shift. I was just curious if any of you guys have had Subarus and know if this is common for them.

[ToplessFC3Sman]

This is common for just about all cars. Its 'cause first gear is almost never 'synchro-ed, meaning that you have to match RPM's with the clutch manually instead of having the transmission synchro's do it for you as in 2nd-5th. First gear is mainly used for standing start, at which point the input and output shafts are spinning at the same speed... 0. as was said, first gear normally has a ratio of between 3 and 4, a big jump from second, which is around 1 or 1.5. So downshifting at mid-rpm's in second into first would spin the engine approx. 3 times as fast once you dropped the clutch, causing some major engine damage, clutch burnage, transmission and gear stress, and all-around bad things happen. There may be a lock-out, im not really sure about that on subaru's, but it would make sense. There was a forum on here not too long ago, search for "double clutching" and you'll find it, its basically matching the i/o shaft speeds. I havent been able to do it without double clutching on any of the three cars ive owned... 88 200sx, 88 Saab 900, 88 RX-7 (there a pattern here?), so my guess would be that its normal.

[Drift For Food]

Took it to a tranny shop. I had the guy there take it out and see what he thought. Conclusion: it's normal. Basically in his words, each car has a limit. 10mph for the Forester is its limit. That's life I guess. Now on to more fun with the Subbie!

I just got my K&N filter for it too, yay! I get one for all my vehicles. It helps response and milage, plus I don't have to change it every oil change. All I need to do is clean it every couple years. I'm lazy, lol.

[mranlet]

WRX's 1sr gear ratio is different than the Forester TX's. WRXs are also intended for low speed spirited driving moreso than Forests are. What year is it?

99% says it's how it should be.

If you get the motor into first at 20 mph you'll be stressing it with a hell of a lurch...

2nd ought to be enough engine braking or pull for you even at 10mph.

-MR

[vervius]

my buddy has a forester 5 spd and it sounds normal. his has a weaker clutch, but it doesn't sound messed up.

now, are you talking about using the gears to slow down, or just to get ready to start/turn/whatever after you stop? because if you're using it to stop then don't worry because 93.73% of all manuals are going to not want to go into first if you're still doing 20. the idle to rpm will feel/sound really hard.

that's just what i'm getting out of what you might be looking for atleast.

[Drift For Food]

Yeah, downshifting into first when slowing down from a higher speed. It "feels" normal, but I'm used to a truck that could care less what speed your going or what rpm you're at. It would shift if the clutch was in. For example, 2nd tops out at just above 35mph before the rev limiter kicks in(truck). I throw it into 4th but accidently shift to second, goes right in. I start to let out the clutch and weeeee, ooops, push the clutch in. It would go in reguardless. It was the kind of tranny that you could just slam gears all day long no matter what you were doing, pretty user friendly.

I just have to get used to the Subaru. I just expect too much out of it I guess. So far, it seems to shift very nicely when reving it up to 5-6k before shifting. Shifts smoothly. Low rpm shifting is goofy. You have to give it a touch of gas to transition because the rpms drop to fast. A goofy littlw quirk I found. The engine stays at it's rev point for a second after letting off the gas. I don't know why it does this. You rev up, let off the gas to shift, and the tach hangs at the rev point for a second before dropping down. Now it's not just a slow tach or anything, the engine behaves this way as well. I'm not sure if it's built in for shifting or what. It's kind of goofy but works for shifting. It doesn't do it at lower rpms though, hence the need to throttle a bit right before the clutch engages.

This car's fun to play around with, but I do have one beef with it. The torque below 2k is pretty bad. You can barely take off with any rpm under 2k. 3k and above will shot you off the line pretty quick, but under 2k is a snails pace. Any attemped at getting the car to move at idle with no throttle will result in an instant stall. The lack of bottom end torque is the only thing I don't like about the car, low rotating mass I guess.

[mranlet]

Your old truck was most likely a freak of nature...

If your Forester is the SOHC model, the rotatinc mass is really low, and there is pretty much no torque below 2500.

Low rotating mass is less resistance though, and pro-3k it ought to be enough for you.

-MR

[Drift For Food]

pro-3k? Above 3k you mean? or just misspell.

I'm not sure about the SOHC or not, haven't really looked into Subaru engines before, not sure what they use. I just now it's a boxer type, 2 pistons to either side layed down flat if I'm not mistaken. It's the same as thy style used in a Porsche.

The engine's nice but yeah, low end is not there what so ever. You actually get something above 2k and it starts to kick in strong at 3k. At 4k, there seems to be a jump, not sure if it starts adding more fuel or something. As long as it's above 3k, you have power. If you're above 2k you have some. Anywhere below there's nothing.

I'm curious about something. Subaru has a turbo version but the engine is different correct? 2.2L turbo versus my 2.5L non turbo. Still I assume there at least a few turbo upgrades for the 2.5L. Know of any restrictions/limits on power? I'd really only shoot for a low boost setup, small turbo, very responsive. This is just an idea for the future cause I know it would be nice to have a little more power for asphalt.


Lol, old truck, freak of nature...ah that was good. Yep, she's a real beast. I think the tranny's bigger than the engine, probably weighs more too, lol. I assume it was the same one they use for the larger 6 cylinder.

[Feint]

Bringing up the revs while shifting low is normal.When someone stalls,it's usually because they don't do that-revs drop when you hold in the clutch as you previously mentioned.