CA18 or SR20?

[S13 Black Wolf]

I have two engines ca18de and sr20de, at the moment the CA18de is in the S13. Like this engine (CA18) manily because its rev happy but at the moment ive come to a toss up between the two engines. I would like to kno which engine would be the better engine to do up. I want to run a high boost level when im finshed so im thinking the ca18 with its iron block would be stronger but i don't really kno much the SR20 besides my friend letting me drive his stock S13 SR20DET. Please Help ME

[markeese180sx]

you live in asia/australia...i looked at a ca18de..the horsepower is really low...a det would be better...but i would go with an sr20det...thats what id do if i could pick between the two...125hp...200hp...

[S13 Black Wolf]

wat i should mentiond earlyr is that i plan on replacin the crank, conrods, pistons, the head to be ported, cams ect... and that i have already purchased a micro tech comp and a universal HKS turbo kit for the CA18 and SR20 engines. I should have said which engine would be more durable towards high boost levels?

[raging panda]

if i remember correctly, the ca18de doesnt have the oil squirters that the DET has, so it might not be a great idea for the high boost levels. The SR20DE i'm not so sure about since I never did any research on them. Ideally, the CA should be able to hold more boost due to the iron block, but it probably won't ever come to you needing to worry about the block ever, its gonna be everything else. The CA engine is great as it is the little brother to the RB engines. It has a really good head design and an insanely strong block, but other issues come with the high boost levels. You may never make it to a level where the block is an issue. the SR is a good engine also, and there are US engine tuners making 500hp out of the SR with stock internals, but if you are replacing the internals which is a good idea, it wont really matter. it really comes down to your tuning. Either engine will really do about as well as the other if you tune well, and either will blow up if you dont know how to tune.

Basically the answer is whichever engine you like better, and I would say the one you can more easily find replacement parts for.

[hachiroku-fc3s]

He speaks the truth. I don't think the SR20de has the piston cooling oil squirters either. Yeah, Im pretty sure not. But yeah, Id boost the SR were it me. Huge aftermarket and the squirters can be fitted to the de anyway. Plus in anywhere but america, shouldnt be hard to find another one cheap in case you blow it up. *shrugs* Since you plan on a full build, it really shouldn't matter which you choose. Unless you are worried about rocker arm stoppers coming off of their seats (SR20) or headbolt stretching (I personally haven't had this problem, so I dunno, plus it can be dealt with).

You're looking at a full build, so you're not much looking at characteristics of the engine, except the rocker arm stoppers and closed deck design in general (yuck). It really all comes down to which one do you want to blow up. Have fun and play nice.

[S13 Black Wolf]

yeah... i was looking at that the other day. took the rocker covers off both engines and had a look at that my self. i always knew that the CA had the better valve train ( thats why its rev happy ) ... any way i got a m8 to have a look with me, he reckons the same as me the CA18. he also reckons if i do have a trouble with oil squirters it can just bolt on an DET head. he reckons it'll fit i sure it will fit but never heard of anyone doing it before?

the CA has the better head design. the sr has the better aftermarket support. If you plan on building crazy power, sr. If you're looking for something cheaper to maintain over the long term then I'd say CA.

the SR has the rocker arms. it's a hassle to worry about. I know since I worry about those on my SR pretty often and without a good set of RAS, they can still come flying off if you happen to rev high past 7800-9k. The rocker pivots can be replaced, but they're expensive. The pivots generally go for about 300 on the market but that's pretty expensive for something that doesn't increase power and is there only to prevent something worse from happening when you make an error and rev high.

Drag and high power, I'd say SR, for more weight control, go with the CA. They can still build decent power, enough to drift with and the fact they can breathe better, rev higher (potentially), and lighter, make them more ideal for drifting. Just that their parts might be harder to get now than before.

[mranlet]

The 2.0 will have more torque than the 1.8 for those times where you really have to dig yourself from high-resistance pavement.

The lower displacement of the 1.8 helps it rev quicker and run cooler (from what I've heard).

For a daily driver/double duty car I would suggest the SR, but for a drift/race only car I would have to tell you to go with the CA.

Both are excellent platforms and can easily be adapted to turbo parts.

-MR

[S13 Black Wolf]

Originally posted by 180fan



Drag and high power, I'd say SR, for more weight control, go with the CA. They can still build decent power, enough to drift with and the fact they can breathe better, rev higher (potentially), and lighter, make them more ideal for drifting.

I hate to correct u but the CA engine weights about 75 lbs more than the SR but its not that much diff to me. because of its iron block

[driftxtreem]

I have the same predicament as you. I have the Ca18det in my 180 and a sr 20 det being rebuilt for it now. This is how I aproched the question. Most tuners in japan say the ca is only good to 380 relaiable HP. the Sr will do 400 to 500 with stock internals. For masive power closing the deck on the Sr is best and can be done a few different ways. As for the head desighn yes the baby rb is tits but which ever you choose they are both aluminum and can warp. Head gasket what you do for boost will lead you to this choice. It is a must for both engines. A ca stock CA will take 1.5kps of boost and I am boosting mine at 1.2. I have around 200 hp and that aint enough. Boosting a sr will give you plenty and you can do some neet tricks to make more power out of them. Our beaters are stock internals with biger turbos, EX manifolds and downpipes, fmic, Z32 airflow sensors, 550 injectores and r reprogramed factory ECU. we are getting around 320 to the tires and they take quite a beeting.

My Sr is getting a mildport to save tork, Tomei cams, Surge tank, 100 mm throtal body, EX manifold Garrett GT series turbo. and I am thinking about the Tomei E manage for the box. The injectores are 660's and a GTR fuel pump. I am hoping for 400 to the ground on pump gas and if this still aint enough I got a bottle for it.

I know shops here that can get you 400 with the stock turbo but the work still cost what a bigger one would.

I like my CA but I need more power for what I am doing with the car. (touge Drifting) punching up them hills on the switch backs takes its toll on the CA I have now and would enjoy the snap out of the SR.

[mranlet]

Imagine how I feel in Touge - D15 and FWD (for now)

AWD is coming though...

-MR

[driftxtreem]

I just wanted to add that I put a 35 shot of naws on the CA for the touge drift I have been dooing. Its like night and day as well the Ca will take the reves with out even groaning. Alot of the D1 cars are running it now to on their Sr's but the CA really likes the stuff. Im running a wet kitb with 900 psi at the tank and a bottole warmer to keep the 85deg temp on the bottle. Also a perge kit for the F&F efect and to keep the line full of NAWS. Its running the stock turbin and I dropped the plugs down two notches to keep out of the predetonatin. I have a MSD Digital 6 but I havnt put it on yet. I think about 2 deg of *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* would help alittle more espesialy with the 1.2 boost im running. I noticed the other night when I was running the hill as the temp come up I started to detonate even with out the gas. I tried to back the timming down at the head but the CPU put it back so the digital 6 will be in order.

CA all the way man. First off the iron block that thing is the little brother of the rb26. It takes the hi revs and its reliable as anything. It an amazing engine. You won't need nos. Just slap a new turbo on like t3/t4 ot the super 60 and you will be good to go. The CA has soo much potential. I just got done dropping one into my coupe I will post some pics this week. But yeah its amazing I talked to Ken Gushi and he said he wishes he had one instead of an SR so there you have it.

[raging panda]

dude, a t3/t4 will have way too much lag on a 1.8 ltr engine, not even gonna mention the super 60, its all about response with that little engine, especially for drifting. Either engine will be good to 300hp, so unless you are worried about making like 500+ hp you dont really need to worry about the block. The CA will rev higher, but wont get the torque the SR will, so its kind of a trade off as to which one you prefer, but neither engine is really a lot better than the other in any real sense. I would recomend whichever one is easier/cheaper to maintain for you.

Got mine for 1850 with a front mount all piping wire harness waf censor everything needed for the sawp and 45k on the engine. Its badass. True about the turbos thought you could just get new housing and reduce the lag I have seen that done before. Just do some internal work and raise the boost to like 15 psi on the stock snail and you could push 300.

*MAF sensor sorry!

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by turbo_blitz21
CA all the way man. First off the iron block that thing is the little brother of the rb26. It takes the hi revs and its reliable as anything. It an amazing engine. You won't need nos. Just slap a new turbo on like t3/t4 ot the super 60 and you will be good to go. The CA has soo much potential. I just got done dropping one into my coupe I will post some pics this week. But yeah its amazing I talked to Ken Gushi and he said he wishes he had one instead of an SR so there you have it.

The only advantage i see the CA having over the SR is its iron block. AND I"VE NEVER heard of someone running so much boost on a SR20 that they broke the block. Thus iron block = bad thing. Also to run enough boost to make the iron block nessisarly you will be running aturbo that you probably wont want to drift with. Especailly with out d1 level skill.

I dont care if the CA is the rb's little brother, or big brother or great aunt gemmima. The Sr20 is newer, bigger displacement and carries more aftermarket then the CA. If you really want a CA get it. but you obviously dont want it paticularly because your asking this question.

Do what you want, but im sick of hearing about how the CA is vastly superior to the sr. Also the Ca's stock turbo blows. Get your self a redtop SR, should be plenty cheap outside of america. Get your self a gt28 off a S15. upgrade your fuel pump, get a manual boost controler. You will have more power then you know what to do with on a drift car.

Further more a T3 or bigger turbo wont just bolt up. Its going to require at least some kind of new flange or exhaust manifold. Not to mention a bigger intercooler to handle such a large turbo. No car 'needs nos' however nitrous is a very handy way to make power when needed. Especialy if you have access to good gas.

Anyways just my thoughts on the subject, i am by no means a expert on nissan engines.

Originally posted by raging panda
dude, a t3/t4 will have way too much lag on a 1.8 ltr engine, not even gonna mention the super 60, its all about response with that little engine, especially for drifting. Either engine will be good to 300hp, so unless you are worried about making like 500+ hp you dont really need to worry about the block. The CA will rev higher, but wont get the torque the SR will, so its kind of a trade off as to which one you prefer, but neither engine is really a lot better than the other in any real sense. I would recomend whichever one is easier/cheaper to maintain for you.

Exactly, and i always say when all else is nearly equal, do what the domestic boys always say.. get more displacement. Especialy for drift/touge and well drag racing...

[RallyGT]

imagine how i feel in touge....auto and ff....i get by tho

[raging panda]

I like the CA for its willingness to rev, it has a way better/reliable valvetrain, and the head design (from what I understand) is better, but not in such a way that it makes it vastly superior to the SR. I wanted a CA, its a cool engine, but the reality is that power parts from that engine will be hard to come by due to it being around only 2 years. The SR is over 10 years old, so you know which one has a larger following just by volume. The SR has had some blocks blow up i've seen them on NICO forums, guys post pics of their aluminum cans getting crushed, but even if the block didn't blow up in the CA, the internals are still so far wasted that it wouldn't make a difference, so the iron block really doesn't ever make that big a difference.

[hachiroku-fc3s]

Yeah, Im with raging panda, the head design is the vast(my word, not his) superiority, perhaps you will learn that when you go upgrade your engine internals, you SR20 guys. Also, turbo_blitz was not incorrect, he compared a t3/t4 hybrid to NOS, sensible comparison as both need to be at near full throttle to realize results (perhaps he didnt realize this but he is correct none-the-less). But those of you who said a t3/t4 on a 1.8 is too much for dori are right too. Ive done it, not a linear poweband at all. Yeah, Ive heard of at least 5 busted SR blocks. Usually something else goes wrong first and it doesnt get to that, but its happened.

*whispers to SMC* do you realize you told him that the stock turbo on the CAdet engine sucks then told him to upgrade his stock SRdet turbo?

SMC is right about the T3 and NOS tho.

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by hachiroku-fc3s

*whispers to SMC* do you realize you told him that the stock turbo on the CAdet engine sucks then told him to upgrade his stock SRdet turbo?.

Yeah i caught that too.


I didnt mean to imply the sr20 turbo was so much better, then told him to upgrade it. I was just stating problems with the Ca, and like usual my thoughts get bunched up. Fact is the SR turbo kindof sucks too. Though i hear its slightly better.


If your going to a point where your going to be blowing up a block. And i am thinking full out drag car then i would hope you have enough experience to not be asking for our opinions. However thats not the case, and nothing wrong with that.

And if you are wanting to push that much power i would sugest the KA, you will be doing alot of work eitherway, might as well get the big boy of the S13 4 cylenders.

Now if the higher more rev happy CA meets your criteria and style for all means go with it. But understand less displacement means less low end power, it also means more turbo lag for any sized turbo ect.. You can run a much bigger turbo on a Rb25 or KA for example with the same lag a smaller turbo on a CA will have. Displacement is often our friend.

If you deside you want the rev happy CA (and from what i've heard the sr isnt exactly afraid of RPMS either, especialy compared to the KA) get your S13's weight down as much as possible to compensate for the lack of displacement. And go to a responsive turbo, i still sugest the S15's turbo, though i dont know what it takes to bolt up. Anyone have any info on this ?

Well I am glad that we got the cleared up. But does the CA stock turbo really suck.. I mean the one that came with my engine was perfect. NO shaft play. Boosts at 10psi stock, plus the good thing is that if something on a CA breaks you can go to napa or pepboys and they will have some CA parts there. Atleast here in ATL they do. Anways thanks for all the new info guys hachi-fc3s thanks for backing me lol!

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by turbo_blitz21
Well I am glad that we got the cleared up. But does the CA stock turbo really suck.. I mean the one that came with my engine was perfect. NO shaft play. Boosts at 10psi stock, plus the good thing is that if something on a CA breaks you can go to napa or pepboys and they will have some CA parts there. Atleast here in ATL they do. Anways thanks for all the new info guys hachi-fc3s thanks for backing me lol!

Yeah if you want to push high power you wont want that turbo. Which i assumed you wanted to do sence you were talking about needing a strong block and big turbo ect.. it was just an assumption though. What is your power goal?

I want to push hi 200's maybe 300. I was thinking of just keeping stock turbo and doing internal work. Starting off with new gaskets or boring out the engine. What you think? Maybe new cams and fuel system? Its a drift car not drag. And I know what you are gonna say you don't need that much power for drift.

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by turbo_blitz21
I want to push hi 200's maybe 300. I was thinking of just keeping stock turbo and doing internal work. Starting off with new gaskets or boring out the engine. What you think? Maybe new cams and fuel system? Its a drift car not drag. And I know what you are gonna say you don't need that much power for drift.

NAh i wont say that, i will say that your going to want a bigger turbo to push that much power. sport compact car's project silvia is pushing similar to what you want, they went with the gt28rs "disco potato" turbo. But the stock CA, and SR turbos will be spinning way to fast at those power levels.