20b swap

[FD3S_pilot]

anyone know how to swap a 20b into a fd.any info please

[Chas]

i dont think its worth it.

[Misthael]

Don't listen to Chas. He's just being an a§. You should search on other sites and on google first though. Try rx7club.com and search there. Don't start a thread. There are plenty of them. Search first. It gets annoying having people asking for info about the same stuff all the time. People don't look for stuff themselves any more. Good luck. It's a good swap. Post some pics if you do it.

[driftfreak]

its not worth it...for the money you dunp into sticking a 20B into anything you would be HP ahead with a 13B

[Misthael]

/\ tru, but you would have more potential with the 20B. I think it's a good swap. A 20B has more HP than a 13B. I don't think there's much fabrication. The brackets and such are pretty much the same. It's been a while since I looked at a 20B swap thread on rx7club.

[Jin13b]

I read that it'll cost you around $10,000 in the end, if you swaped a 20b into an Fc. http://fc3spro.com/TECH/SWAP/COSMO/20b.html thats a write up for the FC's, you can email them and they may be able to tell you how much it might be for an FD. And definitley search on rx7club.com like Misthael said. A long time ago, i think i read that it was even more expensive to do the swap on an FD but i dont know how true that is. I dont know who makes any motor mounts for the FD so you might have to get them fabricated.

[FD3S_pilot]

Thanks for the info Misthael. rx7club.com gots lot on the 20b, its goin to take me forever to read it all.

[Misthael]

rx7club.com is your friend. tons of info

[Ghost of Duluth]

Yea, you could be HP ahead on a 13b but you could also blow the living crap out of it ALOT faster than that 20b. It isn't around 10k anymore, prices have come down. Used to be that you had to have a whole cradle, but companies now have kits for it. Not that hard. I would much rather have a 20b. Last longer, 10x more stout than the 13b. Let's face it, the 13b in the FD's are junk. They just weren't designed for that kind of power. You are taking a motor that basically has not changed since they first came out making 80hp and are making over 255 stock with them by bolting stuff on em. FD engines should come with their own Army helmets since they are like Grenades. Never know when someone is going to throw one at you but you know it will explode eventually.

If I keep mine and don't put a 20b in it, i'm going LS1. Screw the rotary headache after this engine. I'm on #4 now and i'm tired of it. Cheaper to fix, easier to maintain and mountain of tourque. 40 lbs lighter and free's up more room in the engine bay. What's there not to like about that.

[twcfc3s]

a prefer 2 rotors with a mofoo turboe!!

[nissanguy_24]

Hey ghost.... Rb26 swap! lol.... okay so the rb will probably have many of the problems your 13b does. I mean cost and will probably be heavier ect.. and a *Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored**Censored* to install.

On a serious note, another plus for the 20b is the extra displacement Thats 50 percent more man. You cant go wrong with that. that means at 3000 rpms you have 50 percent more power. (same is true for every RPM of course) Rotorys arent known for there stump pulling torque, so every bit of power down low they can get is probably apreciated.

Also like always with more displacement you can run a larger turbo with the same about of lag. or less lag (depending on how you size it of course) so what may not be ideal for drifting on a 13b might be perfect. Ah displacement is great. Also unlike other options (or arguement ie sr vs ka) such as the chevy, you wont be giving up any of your RPMS (not that theres anything wrong with the chevy) and i know alot of guys like there RPMS.. i know i do.

[Misthael]

Ghost. Why not peripheral port and carb it rather than turbo? Should be a little easier on the motor. You could supercharge it too. I'd rather have carb'd than fuel injected. Don't ask me why. Just would. But for you I guess 3 rotor would be best. Your car is heavier than mine. I think SCOOT has the perfect rotary. Besides the 787B LeMans car that is.

[nissanguy_24]

Originally posted by Misthael
Ghost. Why not peripheral port and carb it rather than turbo? Should be a little easier on the motor. You could supercharge it too. I'd rather have carb'd than fuel injected. Don't ask me why. Just would. But for you I guess 3 rotor would be best. Your car is heavier than mine. I think SCOOT has the perfect rotary. Besides the 787B LeMans car that is.

Once saw a 510 with a carbed rotary.. thing was clean, i mean literally there was nothing in the bay except the simple basic rotary engine in its most simple form.. Something very very sexy and cool about that. compared to a modern cars bay.. including RX7s

[Misthael]

Mine is stock besides the exhaust. It isn't that sexy. I think maybe the one you saw probably had some mods to it. When you peripheral port a rotary it looks cleaner an looks like it could be stock. Also there's a rats nest of emission control vacuum tubes on top and that was probably gone too. Here's a pic of m engine form the top. It looks like sh!t.






You can remove so many things from the engine. I'm surprised nobody has done a dual rotary engine car. Like that dual engine Tiburon from USCC. Much smaller engine.

Oh crap. I'm going off topic aren't I??? Sorry.

Oh yeah. I love 510s with rotaries. Classic sexy car.

[Ghost of Duluth]

A dual Turbo rotary is the absolute WORST rotary. The duals is 90% of the reason they always eat themselves. The heat that is put out by those duals is insane. Especially in that small of an area. The heat soaks everything, gets under the intake and rots the vacuum lines in 30k miles, eats the wiring harness. The duals is the worst thing that Mazda ever did to the rotary there TWCF3. Single turbo is the way to go.

The RB is too long and too heavy. The front of the engine would stick bout 4 inches above the hood line. Be a neat trick but it would be like that SP car, useless. Can't put a hood on it. Like a redneck dragster.

As for carbing the motor, you would get nowhere near the power from that as a turbo motor. I make 342 at the wheels more or less. Can't get that from a carbed motor as easily. Actually with a single turbo you can cut down bout 40% of the heat, half the crap off the top of the engine and shave weight as well. Single turbo is the way to go on 13b's in the FD's. Notice the difference in reliability in the FC's to the FD's? Single turbo and better ventilation.

Hmmm maybe an FC motor is the way to go. Nah LS1.

As for the 20b. Super good way to go. Extra displacement, better reliability and a heap more powerful. Hmmm maybe a 20b. Nah LS1.

[nissanguy_24]

If your putting in the LS1. then corner weigh the car, before and after man. I would love to see some hard numbers on that, weight and distribution.

[Misthael]

I didn't mean two turbo'd rotary. I mean a car with one rotary in the front and one in the rear. You can turbo a carb'd rotary. Does it really decrease power that much to have a carb instead of fuel injection? Should take up less room. Shall I find some pics of blow-through turbo setups?

[twcfc3s]

ok ill say it again.. i prefer 2 rotor with a bigh mofoo SINGLE turbo...i dont like twin turbos couse those drink makes your engine drink the fuel like a mofoo drnking a beer on the desert...

[ToplessFC3Sman]

putting an LS1 in an RX7... thats losing half the spirit of the car. Sure, it makes a lot of sense on paper, but you lose a whole letter in the car's name. Dont do it, save the "R" man...

Nawww, its your car, and after 4 engines, id be pretty fed up too. Did you ever run a single turbo on any of them? It just seems like sacriledge to me. Getting those weight numbers like nissanguy suggested would be interesting tho, especially the distribution.

The rotary still has a bit of evolution to go thru til it can be compared to the most modern piston engines in terms of performance AND reliablility, but then again, we collectively have had approx 110 years with the piston (even more if you consider the basic piston idea in steam engines) while only about 60 with the rotary engine. plus, its just cool to be able to brag about smoking your friends with an engine half the size of theirs

[raging panda]

I wonder how the LS1 will affect your weight distribution front/back. Would it sit futher forward than the 13b? As for the piston/rotary evolution, you also have to think how many people each year after year make a different type of piston engine, how many companies are making variations of the same engine, while only a handful of people have made different variations of the rotary engine. If only 1 engine came out per year as an evolution, it would be like the piston engine had 1000 years of experience compared to the rotary's 60.

[marshun]

Originally posted by raging panda
I wonder how the LS1 will affect your weight distribution front/back. Would it sit futher forward than the 13b? As for the piston/rotary evolution, you also have to think how many people each year after year make a different type of piston engine, how many companies are making variations of the same engine, while only a handful of people have made different variations of the rotary engine. If only 1 engine came out per year as an evolution, it would be like the piston engine had 1000 years of experience compared to the rotary's 60.

you've never seen an ls1 have you? it would be way further out than a 13b. hehe.

[Wayne]

as an avid rotor head and owner of a 93 mazda rx7 you dont need a 20b at all unless ur a serious track driver or drag racer, or have way to much money.

to put a 20b inside an fd ur lookin at 15-20k plus depending on where you goo, trust me u dont need 600+hp in a 2700lb car at all.

plus i hope u dont plan on drifting the 20b powered mazda lol thats a whole new ball game

[nissanguy_24]

Ghost why not just go to a single turbo setup? and concentrate your mods on cooling? cooling seems to be the problem alot of rotary, especialy FD drivers complain about.. im sure getting it under control could help out alot, especialy with all the little problems associated with it.

Or just going to a turbo 2 motor? whatever is easier. Unless you have your heart set on much more power. in that case obviously more displacement is where its at.

[Ghost of Duluth]

I have the cooling as licked as I am willing to go without radical steps.

TWCf3cf3ccfs the single setup aint gonna save you any gas, matter of fact you would probably use more seing as how odds are the turbo someone slaps on there is going to be pretty big. All you will do is cut down weight, cut down heat and increase lag on a sigle set-up which aint too bad in my opinion.

As for the LS1, it will sit forward but the decrease in weight is supposed to keep the car's 50/50. Again this is according to Hinson supercars and not my actual facts. But, you WILL increase the reliability of the vehicle and that is what the biggest problem is with FD's. Plus parts are cheaper, more readily available and sheap, small add ons make a big difference on an LS1.

It's a trade off and since I am not a purist in any way, shape or form, it may just be my trade off. I'll probably sell it though soon as I get the engine done.

[hachiroku-fc3s]

Ghost, we've been through this. But you missed something. HUGE TURBO=good gas mileage. If you don't have enough exhaust to push any air into your intake, it runs like a non turbo car=good gas mileage. I once saw an 850 hp supra that got like 25 mpg. Keep the revs lo and you still get what you want...push it, and get more. That's the beauty of import performance. 850hp ls1=4 mpg