how hard is it to convert an awd car to rwd?

blargonator · 06-16-2004, 05:32 PM

how hard is it to convert an awd car to rwd? because there are cheap dsm awd cars.

METALL-DRIFTER · 06-16-2004, 06:18 PM

all you have to remove the front drive shafts. replace rear drive shaft and weld the spyder gears on the center differential easy and cheep

5Z S13 · 06-16-2004, 06:40 PM

what awd's are you looking at?

blargonator · 06-16-2004, 07:01 PM

oh really! my brother has a dsm which im guessing most of you guys dont know what that is because they are either ff or awd but anyways. every mitsubishi eclipse (my brother has a regular 91) from first generation to the second. i am not sure about the third. but dsm fits eagle talon, mistubishi eclipse, and plymouth laser. i think the eagle talon is awd so i might look into those. the eclipse has 4 models the 1.8,2.0,GSX, and GST gsx and gst are turbo gsx is awd.

Tuner · 06-16-2004, 08:51 PM

GSX Eclipses still carry a high price tag

5Z S13 · 06-16-2004, 10:33 PM

well you can get some for around 7k with decent mileage, depends on how much your willing to spend in the first place though

blargonator · 06-16-2004, 10:47 PM

i dont have that much but i was just asking. simply a dream if its 7k

clay payton · 06-16-2004, 10:48 PM

DSM stands for diamond star motors which was the joint venture between mitsubishi and chrysler.

blargonator · 06-17-2004, 09:08 AM

i know. but what does dtm stand for? is it VW or something? i dont even know if it is dtm but something like that.

Parry · 06-17-2004, 09:48 AM

it's a racing series in germany. "Deutschen Tourenwagen Masters"

Audi, benz, and Opal all participate.

A lot of parts for european cars are described as "DTM", like those silly dual upturned exhaust tips and mirrors and whatnot.

mranlet · 06-17-2004, 01:23 PM

See here:

http://www.drifting.com/forums/showt...1291#post71291

It's a task to do a drivetrain conversion, check out that thread for more discussion.

-MR

CRASHDRIVE · 06-17-2004, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blargonator
how hard is it to convert an awd car to rwd? because there are cheap dsm awd cars.

That's easy! just sell your AWD and get a RWD. Simple as that

TeamSLIPdrifter · 07-12-2004, 12:28 PM

In skylines its just a matter of removing a fuse. I read about it in a Modified Mag once. And i know someone who ripped his entire front differential off on his 92 eagle talon tsi for drag racing. It runs 7 seconds on a quarter mile with full stock interior and AC still hooked up. But expect to do a ton of fabricating.

mranlet · 07-12-2004, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TeamSLIPdrifter
In skylines its just a matter of removing a fuse. I read about it in a Modified Mag once. And i know someone who ripped his entire front differential off on his 92 eagle talon tsi for drag racing. It runs 7 seconds on a quarter mile with full stock interior and AC still hooked up. But expect to do a ton of fabricating.

If he got rid of his AC and interior, he'd run faster times with the AWD...

You can't just take stuff out and expect power to go to whatever wheels are left connected, there's initial split and torque allocation under slip that you have to worry about. Doing a AWD to RWD conversion will depend on the car, and pretty much all of them except the Skyline takes more work than pulling a fuse (which I've heard disputed as well).

-MR

TeamSLIPdrifter · 07-12-2004, 12:59 PM

In the article the owner said so himself its just a fuse. The entire skyline atessa system (pardon if its mispelled) is electronically controlled of course. The torque split in skylines is electronically controlled, instead of mechanical, thats why you see them still accelarating into turns after everyone else brakes, because the computer monitors tire slip and modifies the torque to front and rear so the car can go into turns at much greater speeds. 92 DSMs (eclipse, talon, laser, vr4 galant, and early vr4 3000gts) are pretty much just thrown together with the intention of being ripped apart for racing. Mitsubishi knew people would use them for that purpose so they didnt waste money mass producing systems that would be tempered with anyway. Go to www.dsm.org if you wanna find out more on just how thrown together these cars are with a rockhard 2.0L turbo 4g63 engine (same as used in the evos except inverted). All it was was i think some electrical and a matter or ripping off the front diff. He has AC and full interior cause thats the class he races is. Those things are required and all other modifications are unlimited.

mranlet · 07-12-2004, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TeamSLIPdrifter
In the article the owner said so himself its just a fuse. The entire skyline atessa system (pardon if its mispelled) is electronically controlled of course. The torque split in skylines is electronically controlled, instead of mechanical, thats why you see them still accelarating into turns after everyone else brakes, because the computer monitors tire slip and modifies the torque to front and rear so the car can go into turns at much greater speeds. 92 DSMs (eclipse, talon, laser, vr4 galant, and early vr4 3000gts) are pretty much just thrown together with the intention of being ripped apart for racing. Mitsubishi knew people would use them for that purpose so they didnt waste money mass producing systems that would be tempered with anyway. Go to www.dsm.org if you wanna find out more on just how thrown together these cars are with a rockhard 2.0L turbo 4g63 engine (same as used in the evos except inverted). All it was was i think some electrical and a matter or ripping off the front diff. He has AC and full interior cause thats the class he races is. Those things are required and all other modifications are unlimited.

If all that is true, that's cool.

I know about the ATTESSA but have never worked on it, but am wary of magazine articles that claim that something is so easy, because most of the time those things are not.

What is the initial split on the DSM's AWD? IIRC it's mechanical similar to the viscous coupling in the Subarus and the Realtime in the CR-V, but how would all of the power go to the rear by removing front differential unless there's some sort of center locker or something (becuase otherwise te motor would try to turn wheels that aren't connected).

-MR

TeamSLIPdrifter · 07-12-2004, 01:25 PM

Im not completely sure on the entire process but it involves some fabrication. Its still pretty sketchy and not up to its full pontential as a rear wheel drive car but he ripped everything off that drives the front wheels. Tie rods, front diff., drive axles, etc. He did it all in his garage at home. I know the system is ment to have more power to the front wheels then the rear but i heard it was pretty close. I dont know the exact numbers. He also said that the drivetrain in DSMs is pretty much all mechanical so it doesnt make the ecu go nutz. It took him 2 years to finish the conversion and its now the only (known) rear wheel drive DSM in the world.

TeamSLIPdrifter · 07-12-2004, 01:28 PM

Oh yeh, and there is a rear wheel drive R33 in Chicago. He also said its just a matter of taking out a fuse. But its not very efficiant cause your still hauling an entire front drivetrain around that just sits there. And i also heard that the ecu makes some lose in the power going into the rear during hard cornering cause the system isnt made to have the front ever disconnected.

mranlet · 07-12-2004, 01:35 PM

He must have fabricated a spool or something for the center differential. That's cool though, you ought to try and persuade him to take it drifting - the 4G has tons of bullet-proof power!

-MR

nissanguy_24 · 07-12-2004, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TeamSLIPdrifter
nissanguy_24 is the Jesus of drifting.

Drifting 101 is my bible.

you guys are embarrassing me...

TeamSLIPdrifter · 07-12-2004, 02:19 PM

Lol, would you like me to take it out? But honestly, ive read drifting 101.... it should be published and handed to every drifter in the world. Its awsome. It taught me alot. I also wanted a 240 when i started drifting and you said a bunch of things that helped me in my decision on persuing an s13. Thanks a million.

WytKnight · 07-13-2004, 11:36 PM

There was a story in Import Tuner a couple months ago. This guy made a replacment part you could switch out in about 30-40 mins that would take the car to RWD only without welding gears or messing up the tranny. He says he switches back sometimes but in RWD his car in autoX beats faster WRXs just because hes RWD only he says....

TeamSLIPdrifter · 07-14-2004, 09:55 PM

I heard something about a kit. He should mass produce that... he would make a ton of money. Unless someone already does.

mranlet · 07-15-2004, 08:48 AM

AWD can pose a understeering problem in low speed tight tracks like parking lot autocross, unless you're spinning the tires like Gymkhana.

The "Kit" is most likely a spool-type spider gear replacement that eliminated power to the fronts. Braille Auto is working on a kit to incorporate the CR-V drivetrain into B-series Hondas and make them either AWD or RWD - development of this sort of thing is slow becuase things break when they are asked to do whta the factory didn't intend.

-MR