L.S.D. Options (1 Way, 1.5 Way, or 2 Way?)

--DriftKing-- · 07-19-2004, 01:05 AM

oaky i know cusco and KAAZ made bad *Censored**Censored**Censored* L.S.D's along with NISmo....but...waht options and kinds can and are best for drifting....like.....

1.5 way
1 way
2 way

are there any customizable l.s.d or more-so- like a tunable LSD taht you can change different attributes...?

Oki Drifter · 07-19-2004, 04:13 AM

the newest type out of the 3 is the 1.5 way, which is supposed to have, i think, the qualities of both the 1 and 2 way diffs.
1 way diff is use mostly on time-attack cars(grip)
2 way diffs were basically made for drifting, which makes it the most common type of diff used in the drifting world.
its also better for a newbie to learn with a diff rather than a stock diff
if you want to be able to have an all purpose car for grip racing AND drifting, 1.5 way diffs are for you

--DriftKing-- · 07-19-2004, 09:01 AM

i wonder how good the 1.5 really would be for drift.....i own an FC so i would already have a hard time as it is....

iThe FC has amazing grip and it would be nice to keep that.....but i also want to drift ALOT.....so a 1.5 sounds like a nice option

mranlet · 07-19-2004, 11:07 AM

The main difference is that a 1-way will control slip on acceleration, a 2-way on acceleration and deceleration, and a 1.5 way on both but to a limited extent (making for easier turning than a 2-way).

You can also get tunable LSD's, which usually have some sort of friction plate system which can be re-arranged to precipitate different levels of slip. Usually there will be an inner shaft connected to the driveshaft and an outer shaft connected to the wheels with a number of clutch discs in between. These discs would be something like DWDWDWDWDW (on a 10-disc system with D being the driveshaft and W being the wheels) with the highest limit on slip (9 contact surfaces), but they could be arranged to be DDWDDWWDWW (5 contact surfaces) for less limited slip effect.

I hope this helps rather than confuses...

-MR

DriftGirl · 07-19-2004, 11:55 AM

Or be hella ghetto and weld it

--DriftKing-- · 07-19-2004, 12:33 PM

so if u have time and money would tuning your own lsd for drifting be an option? or would it just be best to run a 2 way lsd...??

thanks alot for you help everyone its been great!!!!

Craftsman · 07-19-2004, 01:22 PM

What types of mechanical LSDs exist?

So I understand type 1 and type 2... what other types are there and how do they work?

Matt.

--DriftKing-- · 07-20-2004, 08:16 PM

i am wondering the same

URMachines · 07-23-2004, 09:13 PM

Quote:

The main difference is that a 1-way will control slip on acceleration, a 2-way on acceleration and deceleration, and a 1.5 way on both but to a limited extent (making for easier turning than a 2-way).

you got most of it. the 1.5 locks fully on accel and locks only half, or ".5" on decel

BENJO · 07-23-2004, 11:06 PM

i was wondering.. the original kaaz 2 way had 8 plates. this new kaaz 2 way has 16.

http://www.i-m-racing.com/kasolisldils.html

does double the amount of plates help with drifting? or is the 8 plate better?

URMachines · 07-23-2004, 11:22 PM

well, the more plates, the longer it should last due to more peices to wear. as for drifting, any 2 way will be fine for getting sideways.

BENJO · 07-23-2004, 11:43 PM

that brings me to another question

...

how often do you have to repair your lsd's?

07-24-2004, 02:55 AM

1 way = locks on accel, not on decel
1.5 way = locks on accel, on decel varies by strength set by different makers
2.0 way = locks on both accel and decel

difference?
the 2.0 way, if you're not used to giving gas on turns it'll be your car in the guard rail. 1.5's alot more forgiving although not as good for racing applications.

Common issues people have with 2.0 lsd
noise. they don't expect that much chatter that is normal for 2.0 way operation. They don't turn as well if you're not giving gas through the turn and are not as stable as 1.5 ways in turns that you're braking through. If you can deal with these and can handle the gas through turns, this one's for you.

benefits of 1.5
more stability during braking. good for fwd cars but also very forgiving for rwd drivers who want similar effects of the 2 way but with an easier learning curve. If you don't know how to drive your car like a madman through straights and turns, get this one otherwise I'll have another parts car to pick parts from after you crash yours. lol

personal recommendation
I'd say get the 1.5 way or a stock LSD to learn on. When you get used to the driving dynamics of those, you might want to consider the 2.0 way. But from going to open to 2 way, you're seriously asking for trouble unless you've seriously driven a car with a 2 way diff.

BENJO · 07-24-2004, 03:01 AM

well i guess its 1.5 for me thanks for the great info.

GRiDRaceTech · 07-24-2004, 09:37 AM

180fan- I love your attitude on anything other than a two-way diff. Some of us are multitalented and don't want the 2-way interfering with our lap times and autocross placing. (Why do I say that? Because I brake to the apex, then roll on the gas. With a 2-way, the car would be twitchy, then want to understeer, then want to oversteer. Boy, would that be fun for 10 laps.) 1.5-way for me, please.

I agree, however, with the fact that beginners should not buy a 2-way limited slip.

07-24-2004, 01:18 PM

ha ha ha yeah I've heard one too many local guys say "oh I'm gonna get a 2 way blah blah blah" and that's after I give them my opinions on it (cuz they ask) and I tell em it'll be the wall but still go out and buy it anyway. Couple weeks down the road when they assume they're touge master, I hear about em hitting the guard rail and then there are cops all over the place that they crashed at. I'm so sick of seeing pigs at the local touge places cuz of idiots that don't know any better and don't know how to drive their cars. That's just my 2 cents.

godigy · 08-12-2004, 01:35 AM

So your saying that 2 way is much more prefer to drift wit and to take to competitions? Cause I want to build a drift car and dont want to change from 1.5 to 2.

08-12-2004, 01:23 PM

2 way is better IF you know how to use it. 2 way also means you'll be in alot of situations where you might soil yourself if you're not used to gassing through corners cuz you'll understeer like a mofo if you don't. If you've never had an LSD or haven't progressed to the point where you're giving gas through turns, don't get the 2 way. It's not to say that everyone will slam into a wall with a 2 way if you've never had previous experience with LSD's but the chance of it happening is real good.

Ichi-Go · 08-12-2004, 02:03 PM

If its going to be a drift only car I would say get a 2 way. Just dont drift in closed spaces or on skinny roads for a while.

2 way is the best for drift but Can potential be dangerous on the street. I would get a 2 way if I didnt do autocross but a 1.5 or even 1 way are the best for grip driving.

Many people drive 2 way on the street I think most people can handle it. Braking drifts would be harder with a 1.5 and feints, stuff without throttle. 2 way is just generaly better for any form of sideways motion.

Maybe we could get Alex or somebody with real life knowledge driving multiple brands and types of LSD.

marshun · 08-12-2004, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 180fan
2 way is better IF you know how to use it. 2 way also means you'll be in alot of situations where you might soil yourself if you're not used to gassing through corners cuz you'll understeer like a mofo if you don't. If you've never had an LSD or haven't progressed to the point where you're giving gas through turns, don't get the 2 way. It's not to say that everyone will slam into a wall with a 2 way if you've never had previous experience with LSD's but the chance of it happening is real good.

yup, if you use the 2 way to its fullest then it'll be better in every case.

my car is just for drifting, it has a welded. 80 bucks for a welded compared to 900 bucks for a lsd? i'll take the welded.

GHOST/^\DRIFTer · 08-12-2004, 03:05 PM

when you weld a lsd were exactly do you weld
does any one have a pic to show the weldings

URMachines · 08-12-2004, 06:41 PM

maybe i missed something hear, but did anyone explain dynamically why you would understeer under braking with a 2-way?

Ichi-Go · 08-12-2004, 07:38 PM

It is becuase when the diff locks both wheels are moving the same speed. But in a turn the outside one needs to move faster so if it is locks the outside wheel is dragging causing a braking motion like if you were applying brakes only to the outside cuasing pull wich counteracts the steering.

That is why I thought it would understeer.

URMachines · 08-12-2004, 08:12 PM

um, didnt completely understand that last one butwhat i got out of it completley contradicts the point on LSD. you said the outer wheel would be going a differnt speed, therefore causing a braking/dragging motion.
the point of an lsd is to transfer more power to the wheel with less traction.
maybe i didnt get the whole thing or something. anyone else have an idea?

also, what in the last post would lead the front wheels to lose traction in a RWD??

CrazyHawaiian · 08-13-2004, 12:04 AM

I dont know if this is domestic specific or what but there are also spools and lockers. Very similar to the effects a welded rearend gives you, but will last longer. Instead of having a LSD (which means some ammount of slippage), these spools or lockers are put in place and completely lock the rearend. So you get the same effects of a 2 way LSD, but much faster response (instant) and much more violent. Pretty much the same way the welded rearends work, same effects, just a little longer lasting. I don't know if these types of parts are made for the import rearends, but might be something to look for. A spool for my track car ran me $80.

07-19-2004, 01:05 AM	#1
--DriftKing-- Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 52	L.S.D options oaky i know cusco and KAAZ made bad CensoredCensoredCensored L.S.D's along with NISmo....but...waht options and kinds can and are best for drifting....like..... 1.5 way 1 way 2 way are there any customizable l.s.d or more-so- like a tunable LSD taht you can change different attributes...?

08-12-2004, 03:05 PM	#21
GHOST/^\DRIFTer Newbie Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 55	when you weld a lsd were exactly do you weld does any one have a pic to show the weldings
$GHOST/^\DRIFTer is offline$

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07-19-2004, 04:13 AM	#2
Oki Drifter Uchinanchu Deesu!! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Okinawa Posts: 318	the newest type out of the 3 is the 1.5 way, which is supposed to have, i think, the qualities of both the 1 and 2 way diffs. 1 way diff is use mostly on time-attack cars(grip) 2 way diffs were basically made for drifting, which makes it the most common type of diff used in the drifting world. its also better for a newbie to learn with a diff rather than a stock diff if you want to be able to have an all purpose car for grip racing AND drifting, 1.5 way diffs are for you

07-19-2004, 09:01 AM	#3
--DriftKing-- Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 52	i wonder how good the 1.5 really would be for drift.....i own an FC so i would already have a hard time as it is.... iThe FC has amazing grip and it would be nice to keep that.....but i also want to drift ALOT.....so a 1.5 sounds like a nice option

07-19-2004, 11:07 AM	#4
mranlet Smokes Dynamite Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Tampa, CT, all over the place! Posts: 1,090	The main difference is that a 1-way will control slip on acceleration, a 2-way on acceleration and deceleration, and a 1.5 way on both but to a limited extent (making for easier turning than a 2-way). You can also get tunable LSD's, which usually have some sort of friction plate system which can be re-arranged to precipitate different levels of slip. Usually there will be an inner shaft connected to the driveshaft and an outer shaft connected to the wheels with a number of clutch discs in between. These discs would be something like DWDWDWDWDW (on a 10-disc system with D being the driveshaft and W being the wheels) with the highest limit on slip (9 contact surfaces), but they could be arranged to be DDWDDWWDWW (5 contact surfaces) for less limited slip effect. I hope this helps rather than confuses... -MR

07-19-2004, 11:55 AM	#5
DriftGirl HighSider Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Confused Posts: 745	Or be hella ghetto and weld it

07-19-2004, 12:33 PM	#6
--DriftKing-- Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 52	so if u have time and money would tuning your own lsd for drifting be an option? or would it just be best to run a 2 way lsd...?? thanks alot for you help everyone its been great!!!!

07-19-2004, 01:22 PM	#7
Craftsman Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 737	What types of mechanical LSDs exist? So I understand type 1 and type 2... what other types are there and how do they work? Matt.

07-20-2004, 08:16 PM	#8
--DriftKing-- Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 52	i am wondering the same

07-23-2004, 11:06 PM	#10
BENJO Street Sweepers Join Date: May 2004 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 202	i was wondering.. the original kaaz 2 way had 8 plates. this new kaaz 2 way has 16. http://www.i-m-racing.com/kasolisldils.html does double the amount of plates help with drifting? or is the 8 plate better?

07-23-2004, 11:22 PM	#11
URMachines Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: East Prov,RI Posts: 131	well, the more plates, the longer it should last due to more peices to wear. as for drifting, any 2 way will be fine for getting sideways.

07-23-2004, 11:43 PM	#12
BENJO Street Sweepers Join Date: May 2004 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 202	that brings me to another question ... how often do you have to repair your lsd's?

07-24-2004, 02:55 AM	#13
180fan Guest Posts: n/a	1 way = locks on accel, not on decel 1.5 way = locks on accel, on decel varies by strength set by different makers 2.0 way = locks on both accel and decel difference? the 2.0 way, if you're not used to giving gas on turns it'll be your car in the guard rail. 1.5's alot more forgiving although not as good for racing applications. Common issues people have with 2.0 lsd noise. they don't expect that much chatter that is normal for 2.0 way operation. They don't turn as well if you're not giving gas through the turn and are not as stable as 1.5 ways in turns that you're braking through. If you can deal with these and can handle the gas through turns, this one's for you. benefits of 1.5 more stability during braking. good for fwd cars but also very forgiving for rwd drivers who want similar effects of the 2 way but with an easier learning curve. If you don't know how to drive your car like a madman through straights and turns, get this one otherwise I'll have another parts car to pick parts from after you crash yours. lol personal recommendation I'd say get the 1.5 way or a stock LSD to learn on. When you get used to the driving dynamics of those, you might want to consider the 2.0 way. But from going to open to 2 way, you're seriously asking for trouble unless you've seriously driven a car with a 2 way diff.

07-24-2004, 03:01 AM	#14
BENJO Street Sweepers Join Date: May 2004 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 202	well i guess its 1.5 for me thanks for the great info.

07-24-2004, 09:37 AM	#15
GRiDRaceTech Opposite Lock Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,096	180fan- I love your attitude on anything other than a two-way diff. Some of us are multitalented and don't want the 2-way interfering with our lap times and autocross placing. (Why do I say that? Because I brake to the apex, then roll on the gas. With a 2-way, the car would be twitchy, then want to understeer, then want to oversteer. Boy, would that be fun for 10 laps.) 1.5-way for me, please. I agree, however, with the fact that beginners should not buy a 2-way limited slip.

07-24-2004, 01:18 PM	#16
180fan Guest Posts: n/a	ha ha ha yeah I've heard one too many local guys say "oh I'm gonna get a 2 way blah blah blah" and that's after I give them my opinions on it (cuz they ask) and I tell em it'll be the wall but still go out and buy it anyway. Couple weeks down the road when they assume they're touge master, I hear about em hitting the guard rail and then there are cops all over the place that they crashed at. I'm so sick of seeing pigs at the local touge places cuz of idiots that don't know any better and don't know how to drive their cars. That's just my 2 cents.

08-12-2004, 01:35 AM	#17
godigy Highway Drifter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mine Hill,NJ Posts: 94	So your saying that 2 way is much more prefer to drift wit and to take to competitions? Cause I want to build a drift car and dont want to change from 1.5 to 2.

08-12-2004, 01:23 PM	#18
180fan Guest Posts: n/a	2 way is better IF you know how to use it. 2 way also means you'll be in alot of situations where you might soil yourself if you're not used to gassing through corners cuz you'll understeer like a mofo if you don't. If you've never had an LSD or haven't progressed to the point where you're giving gas through turns, don't get the 2 way. It's not to say that everyone will slam into a wall with a 2 way if you've never had previous experience with LSD's but the chance of it happening is real good.

08-12-2004, 02:03 PM	#19
Ichi-Go Chas please approve. Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 316	If its going to be a drift only car I would say get a 2 way. Just dont drift in closed spaces or on skinny roads for a while. 2 way is the best for drift but Can potential be dangerous on the street. I would get a 2 way if I didnt do autocross but a 1.5 or even 1 way are the best for grip driving. Many people drive 2 way on the street I think most people can handle it. Braking drifts would be harder with a 1.5 and feints, stuff without throttle. 2 way is just generaly better for any form of sideways motion. Maybe we could get Alex or somebody with real life knowledge driving multiple brands and types of LSD.

08-12-2004, 06:41 PM	#22
URMachines Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: East Prov,RI Posts: 131	maybe i missed something hear, but did anyone explain dynamically why you would understeer under braking with a 2-way?

08-12-2004, 07:38 PM	#23
Ichi-Go Chas please approve. Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 316	It is becuase when the diff locks both wheels are moving the same speed. But in a turn the outside one needs to move faster so if it is locks the outside wheel is dragging causing a braking motion like if you were applying brakes only to the outside cuasing pull wich counteracts the steering. That is why I thought it would understeer.

08-12-2004, 08:12 PM	#24
URMachines Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: East Prov,RI Posts: 131	um, didnt completely understand that last one butwhat i got out of it completley contradicts the point on LSD. you said the outer wheel would be going a differnt speed, therefore causing a braking/dragging motion. the point of an lsd is to transfer more power to the wheel with less traction. maybe i didnt get the whole thing or something. anyone else have an idea? also, what in the last post would lead the front wheels to lose traction in a RWD??

08-13-2004, 12:04 AM	#25
CrazyHawaiian Sample One Time!! Join Date: May 2003 Location: Hawaii Posts: 1,276	I dont know if this is domestic specific or what but there are also spools and lockers. Very similar to the effects a welded rearend gives you, but will last longer. Instead of having a LSD (which means some ammount of slippage), these spools or lockers are put in place and completely lock the rearend. So you get the same effects of a 2 way LSD, but much faster response (instant) and much more violent. Pretty much the same way the welded rearends work, same effects, just a little longer lasting. I don't know if these types of parts are made for the import rearends, but might be something to look for. A spool for my track car ran me $80.