20 Valve 4age Corolla

[racing2khaos]

you guys ever hear about 20valve 4AGE? i think it was levin 20v.

[nasty nate 7]

thats the corolla trueno and levin (ae101.ae111) engine. what about it?

[Tighty_wh1tey]

yeah ive heard of it 3 intake 2 exhaust right?

[URMachines]

yes it does. my friend is building a stroker 20v right now. what is it you want to know?

[DriftingNewbie]

I think i remember reading that the AE101's had individual throttle body's built in to the intake manifolds too.

[Darkstar]

Okay, let's start from the beginning...

The AE86 corolla NEVER came with the 20 valve from the factory. If somebody has told you so, then tell him he's an idiot and send him to club4ag.com.

The 4A-GELU is a DOHC, 20 valve, 1.6 liter engine, that puts out from 160 to 180hp (measured on the dyno - don't beleive in the factory-given figures). It features individual throttle bodies on the intake manifold, which have a cover from dust & stuff with an air filter, which, if removed completely with the cover, makes response better, but results in worse reliability. It's a great base engine to put into the 86 without any mechanical tuning, as the crap for it like camshafts etc. is hella expensive. The bolt-ons and computer tuning (you can't use a stock 16 valve ECU - you have to use either the original AE101 or 111 unit, which is quite a task to get working, or a standalone engine menagement system) are nicely reccomended. For ecample, the stock exhaust unit will be insufficient for that one, as the 101 had a twin exit system, which was much more free flowing than the original 86 unit.

Tighty_wh1tey, you're right - it has 3 intake and 2 exhaust valves. Complete with the itb's, it makes the engine much more responsive than the original 16 valve motor. It also has an advantage of smaller ports than in a 16 valve, what makes it even better for a naturally aspirated motor.

If you would like to swap this engine into an 86, you must remember it won't fit that easily. First, the firewall has to be either hammered back or cut, as the block is longer compared to the bluetop (16 valve with TVIS) because of the original transverse position in the car. Also, the software stuff is the problem, but I won't get into details here: check Moto-P's AE101-powered 86 project at club4ag.com. But even before you put the engine into the car, you would have to modify everything to habdle the extra power. You know, these old cars have much more "flexible" body than the newer ones...

I think that should be everything. It's not exactly correct with the topic, but who cares about that?!

[Ripper]

Originally posted by Tighty_wh1tey
yeah ive heard of it 3 intake 2 exhaust right?

yes, for more air intake. also the 4AGZE was the supercharged version.

[URMachines]

darkstar: my friend is having problms finding pistons for his 5ag. he can only find pistons for the black top but he has the silvertop. what is the difference? i told him prob head cc's but is just a guess

[racing2khaos]

The AE86 corolla NEVER came with the 20 valve from the factory. If somebody has told you so, then tell him he's an idiot

i saw the name at a magazine, so tell that to the guy at super street!!! (look whos the dumb one)

[DriftinCressida]

Originally posted by Darkstar
Okay, let's start from the beginning...

The AE86 corolla NEVER came with the 20 valve from the factory. If somebody has told you so, then tell him he's an idiot and send him to club4ag.com.

The 4A-GELU is a DOHC, 20 valve, 1.6 liter engine, that puts out from 160 to 180hp (measured on the dyno - don't beleive in the factory-given figures). It features individual throttle bodies on the intake manifold, which have a cover from dust & stuff with an air filter, which, if removed completely with the cover, makes response better, but results in worse reliability. It's a great base engine to put into the 86 without any mechanical tuning, as the crap for it like camshafts etc. is hella expensive. The bolt-ons and computer tuning (you can't use a stock 16 valve ECU - you have to use either the original AE101 or 111 unit, which is quite a task to get working, or a standalone engine menagement system) are nicely reccomended. For ecample, the stock exhaust unit will be insufficient for that one, as the 101 had a twin exit system, which was much more free flowing than the original 86 unit.

Tighty_wh1tey, you're right - it has 3 intake and 2 exhaust valves. Complete with the itb's, it makes the engine much more responsive than the original 16 valve motor. It also has an advantage of smaller ports than in a 16 valve, what makes it even better for a naturally aspirated motor.

If you would like to swap this engine into an 86, you must remember it won't fit that easily. First, the firewall has to be either hammered back or cut, as the block is longer compared to the bluetop (16 valve with TVIS) because of the original transverse position in the car. Also, the software stuff is the problem, but I won't get into details here: check Moto-P's AE101-powered 86 project at club4ag.com. But even before you put the engine into the car, you would have to modify everything to habdle the extra power. You know, these old cars have much more "flexible" body than the newer ones...

I think that should be everything. It's not exactly correct with the topic, but who cares about that?!

what are your sources on this? u ramble alot.

[Darkstar]

URMachines, the difference is that the blacktop makes 11 compression ratio with higher compression pistons, and the silvertop makes 10.5. It isn't a problem to make your friend's car running with blacktop pistons. Also changing the connecting rods would be useful, as the blacktop ones are lightened (and better balanced I suppose).

DriftinCressida, what do you mean? "Rumble" in the english I know is to make some extraordinary noise, what is the other meaning? Sorry 'bout that, I haven't ever been to an english-speaking country you know.

[DaGOATRollaGTS]

actually for all of you cats keep your lips tight. Darkstar is absolutly 100% correct. I dont care what you read in superstreet or what your boy is doing.

The AE86 (ive owned 2 so far), only came with a low compression 9.4:1 (AKA large port AKA blue top) 16 valve motor. The generation that followed in japan had a GTS option that was high compression 10.3:1 (AKA small port AKA red top) 16 valve motor. It wasnt untill after that generation that ended in 95 that the Sprinter and Trueno Corollas (two seperate models in japan) got teh 10.5:1 and later 11:1 compression motors.

Now dont feel bad or get mad because your uneducated. To be as popular and pricey as they are I am constantly and consistantly surprized at how little the general motorsports population knows about the Corolla GTS.

Side note: Geo produced the Prizm GSi as well as the Storm GSi that both came with the 10.3:1 compression small port motor, with EGR for you emmisions minded folks. Hehe yeah right.

Where do I get my info from? Lets see. Club4AG is great, DGTRials is awsome, My own personall experiance working with my corollas, Parts friends I have in Toyota service and parts departments and factory service manuals.

In addition to the wisdom Darkstar is so generous to suplly to you guys there are ALOT more things that need to be collected and done to make the 20V work in a corolla 2 generations before it was even produced in a sold to the public. Solinoids and sensors that do not come with a motor and sometimes not even with a front clip need to be collected and wiring for it is always a pain. It takes about as much finincially to get a NA 20V in as it does to do a 4aGZE, supercharged 16V.

If you want to put about 2500 to 3K into your motor swap alone simply get the high comp small port and bore it out and throw in some seriously high compression pistons, invest heavily in new bolts and valve job. Cams and gears and fuel. Call it a day.

[DriftinCressida]

Nice to have such stuck up people in the forums isn't it?

[Darkstar]

I bet there are millions of people who would know tons more than I do. DaGOATRollaGTS surely is one of them.

As for the Corolla 16 valve motors, I thought that there was another generation of the 4A-GE... If I am correct, then there were:

1) Bluetop with TVIS (or redtop, as the latest production models had red lettering on the valve cover, despite the engine was identical as the earlier production bluetop),

2) Redtop without TVIS, with a standart intake manifold (without secondary intake ports from the manifold, which were opening in higher rpm ranges),

3) and the three models of the 4AGZE, all of them based on a redtop engine, but with lower compression pistons and other beefier internals (crank, rods).

[Parry]

Originally posted by Darkstar
DriftinCressida, what do you mean? "Rumble" in the english I know is to make some extraordinary noise, what is the other meaning? Sorry 'bout that, I haven't ever been to an english-speaking country you know.

Rumble is like a low grumbling noise. Trains rumble past.

Ramble is to wander on sort of pointlessly or randomly.

You did neither. Your english is quite good, actually.

[05m0515]

Hey DriftinCressida,

What you know about this?

Oops, thats right. Nothin. Sittin in my driveway right now son. My friend Chris's new nightmare. Why don't you stop flappin your gums.

[SidewaysGts]

The silver top and black top engines are great.

Toyota Power ratings are 160 for the silver top and 165 for the black top (thats ps- but damn near the same as hp so who cares)

BUT they actually score lower on real dynos in stock form, closer to upper 140s and low 150s.

Differences are small between the silver top and black top engines- As stated the silver top has a compressio nratio of 10.5 and the black has 11. Black top also has lighter conrods but thats not always a good thing- the silvertops conrods actually take mroe abuse and highger revs then the blacktops according to most becuase theyre stronger. Another thing to note is the silvertop uses afm for the intake while the black top uses map (those are the reasons for the small power difference)
___

Being a 4age its block will bolt right into the ae86 BUT some thing will need to be handled first. As stated before the firewall MAY need to be happered/cut back but not becuase the engine itself is longer exactly. Its simply becasue its an FF engine and the distributor happens to be facing that way- you either need to make room for it or use a stand alone distributor system.

The 20v engines come stock with vvt which advance the intake cam 30 degrees once 4400 rpms is reached on the older engines, and at a certain throttle point on the later (also it only activates at a certain point- and cuts out around 7200 rpms). This makest he stock 86 ecu useless, not that yodu want to use it since it has a pre-mapped fuel curve when the engine is at full throttle. If you remove the intake cover on the silvertop also keep in mind afm is useless and youll need a map hook up. i HIGHLY reccomend the Wolf 3d ecu. one of the best ecus ive seen for aroudn 1500 bucks (more then worth it- check them out)

Youll need to hook the flywheel up properly with a guiding pin since it cam from a ff though it will bolt right up to the t50 tranny otherwise, youll need to make custom water and oil lines, youll need custom headers for itas well (ya ya screw u guys; multiple pipes- its plural, headers.. sue me) you CAN use the trd headers for the 16v engine as the exaut ports are the same bolt different holes for the bolts will need to be made to it hooks up. just the basics but you get the point.

I can keep going but you get the idea- GREAT engine with incredible throttle repsonse. With some light modding 180 horsepower is an easy number to get to.. thi swap for an 86 will set you back about 1300-1500 bucks on average depending on how much of the work u can do yourself (that doesnt include the wolf 3d ecu, just a stock ae101 or ae111 ecu)

(please excuse any typos- its like 3 am lol)

[SidewaysGts]

Hey 05m0515 i meant to ask- what are the mods to that 20v? How well does vvt work with that hks cam gear? I never thought about using an adjsutable cam gear for the exhaust and leaving the vvt on the intake- i was going to end up using adjustable on both sides

[DriftinCressida]

Originally posted by 05m0515
Hey DriftinCressida,

What you know about this?

Oops, thats right. Nothin. Sittin in my driveway right now son. My friend Chris's new nightmare. Why don't you stop flappin your gums.

Nice. I love it

[DaGOATRollaGTS]

Hehe, yeah there sure are some stuck up people on here. Most of them know about as much as you cressida dude.

Darkstar, there were origionally all blue tops, during the same generation the japanese motors that were high comp were built with red lettering, thus the name red top. However when teh AE92s went into production the motors were all produced with red lettering on the valve covers, and as is mentioned on many a website already valve covers have been traded between motors so many times by now you cant trust color of lettering on any motor. Unless they are black limited like mine. Whole cover is black and letters are silver.

When putting in my 20V block I learned that the adapter for the oil filter has to be from the 20V. Two reasons, one the darn oil pan doesnt have a "bung" to recieve lines from the oil cooler and US stuff simply doesnt bolt in.

Also you will have to use 16V flywheel and clutch assembly and new pilot bearing. If anyone cares I also have clevite bearings on 12:1 compression wesico pistons and a ported and pollished head that could swallow a small child. Hope to get it up and running later this month. Ill post up for all to poke fun at.

[DaGOATRollaGTS]

Oh yeah, rumble also means to fight...

[Parry]

Originally posted by DaGOATRollaGTS
Oh yeah, rumble also means to fight...

yea. that's probably the best one, too.

[scirocco]

LLLLLLLLLLLLLLET'S GET READY TO RUMBLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEE!! sorry i just had to. Anybody remember that guy from boxing matches?

[emission]

No, Stay on topic.

[SidewaysGts]

Theres the blue top largeport 16v

redtop largeport 16v

and redtop small port 16v

There IS a difference between the blue and redtop largeport 16vs beyond cam color. The redtops have a 7 rib block and heavier internals; the 16v however only has a 3 rib block.

Small port has no tvis, and higher compression

20vs have been explained

Then theres the "z" series engines wit ha supercharger. earlier ones making 140 hp with the newer ones making 160.